What do you expect from someone who was a member of the Hitler Youth? There is no debating or denying this fact. The only debate is over the extent of his involvement. For someone who holds himself out as the moral authority of the world, any involvement is too much.

Make sure to support your church. The opulent lifestyles of the priests depend on it. And they wonder why membership is going downhill and anyone who can think for themselves scorns them.

Membership in the Hitler Youth was mandatory there was no choice. Nnothing credible has ever been produced to make is his involvement the subject of debate. The post here certainly didn't provide anything new.

Opulent lifestyles of the priests?

I've always questioned Ratzinger's/Benedict's integrity. There are too many close calls throughout his life with outrageously unethical and immoral acts for me to believe that he just "never knew" or was "unable to protest".

" too many close calls throughout his life "

Such as?

Membership was mandatory....yeah and so was pulling the levers on the gas chambers if someone told you to do it. That's what separates good from evil: DOING SOMETHING, FIGHTING BACK, saying no, no, and Hell no this is wrong! Evil exists when good men do nothing.

Speaking from the Catholic church I grew up with, four priests lived in a home worth well over 5 million dollars. I traveled to Poland a couple summers ago and visited a very small, rural, poor town, population maybe 2000-3000. The Catholic priest there lived in a huge house, on a huge manicured lawn with a full time housekeeper and a full time grounds keeper.

And explain to me why 4 priests got a house that was lavish and huge, probably 6000+sqft, while 20 plus nuns were crammed in barracks/dormitory style in a 3000 sqft cinder block structure with virtually no amenities? This when the priests hold mass once or twice a week for an hour or two tops, and the nuns teach school 5 days a week 6 hours a day+ after school programs+CCD for the public school kids+grade papers. Answer me that will you. Oh, it's tradition.

Benedict is a moral relativist. He said “the trial of Galileo for heresy because of his support for the Copernican system was justified in the context of the time.”

And systematically exterminating Jews was justified in the context of its time and place, as was joining the Hitler Youth.

Here's a few other great quotes from this proponent of the dark ages:

“Science has narrowed the way life’s origins are understood.”

“The Darwinist theory of evolution is not completely provable because mutations over hundreds of thousands of years cannot be reproduced in a laboratory.”

“god created life through evolution.”

“Saving humanity from homosexual or transexual behavior is just as important as saving the Rain Forest from destruction.”

The contraceptive pill is polluting the environment and is in part responsible for male infertility.”

“Embryonic stem cell research, artificial insemination and the prospect of human cloning have shattered human dignity.”

Judgmental, and intolerant of the innocuous, yet complicit and accepting of persecution, genocide, and now it appears child abuse. This man is the embodiment of pure evil.

How do you compare mandatory membership in an organization in which the member wasn't active with an act committed by someone in an organization that they may have joined voluntarily? Try going to Haiti or Africa and see how many opulent lifestyle priests you see living there. Maybe you could try explaining how limited and incomplete observations sets you up as knowledgeable about the lifestyle of priests. Seems to me if it were what you claim the church wouldn't have trouble finding people to join the priesthood.

I think it is silly to think that young Ratzinger was not influenced by his membership in the Nazi youth. Ask any American youth who belonged to 4H, the Boy Scouts, or Junior ROTC and they will usually tell you that it had a lasting impact on their moral and social development. I think it was the same for young Joseph Ratzinger. It does not define the whole of his existence.

I would feel better, though, if it were not swept under the rug.

If it is discovered that Pope Benedict XVI knew of the abuse going on at Regensburg when he was there it will leave an indelible stain on his Papacy and will damage the Church more than any of the scandals to date. Such a discovery would hurt the Church more than the Reformation.

Dana - There is a difference in that those who will say that 4H, the Boy Scouts, or Junior ROTC had a lasting impact on their moral and social development were more than likely active. I would think the more active the more it would impact development. Since as far as I know the young Ratzinger was not active in the Hitler youth. To be honest it's talked about far more than it merrits unless someone has some evidence to suggest he was active in the organization.

I do agree the far bigger issue is the abuse that was going on at Regensburg. If he did in fact know of it then you are correct in your assessment of what it will do to his Papacy and the Church. Speaking as a Catholic I don't think he knew, butI want the truth to come out one way or the other. If the Church ever wants to get the stain of abuse scandals behind them then the full extent needs to be revealed and where applicable local laws need to be enforced.

Ravensfan, it seems we agree on the point at issue, at least. And I understand your view on the issue of the Nazi youth as well. But I disagree that it is too much talked about.

It is too serious to sweep under the altar.

The whole damn Catholic enterprise is stinks--the man's brother just admitted to meting out corporal punishment to the boys of the Regenburg choir--now the sexual abuse allegations--but the piety, ah the piety, never fear, sanctimony is here--when Papa speaks Anonymouse will touch the hem of his garment and even as the sex scandals roll down the Catholic baggage claim, one by one, like luggage from the cargo hold of a filthy jumbo jet, Anonymouse will exclaim, "O no, the priests live humble lifestyles because they do so in Haiti!" Come on Anonymouse, get real brother--the priests of the Vatican is what we speak of--vestments, sumptuous groaning boards of food, their own chefs--a command center decked out for royalty is the Vatican-- go all over the world---thin priests are few--corpulent ones many--the poor nuns chafe under the staff of the lechers who've been getting it on for centuries because guys or girls like you turn a blind eye to their atrocities-- you rise up like incense from the Catholic censer to defend this corrupt business enterprise. Man, your case is weak and it gets weaker by the hour because the baggage coming down the aisle has a stench even you cannot perfume.
Ravensfan Anon

Anonymous – If you actually had something intelligent to say I’d make more of an attempt to give you a response in kind. Since your only purpose appears to be pathetic attempts to mock & insult I won’t bother. All I’ll say is you sound like a wanna be intellectual with an axe to grind.

The Roman Catholic Church must allow its priests to Marry.
All prophets of God were married. Jesus was an exception and is a prophet of both Christians and Muslims. The Muslims refer to him as the spirit of God. Jesus never preached against marriage.
God created Eve for Adam. Priests are always looking for alternatives to a normal sex life and young men under their care become a target.
It is the same in jails. Men will resort to homosexuality to satisfy their sexual desires. The time has come for the Pope to take account of the church and based on the number of events all over the world in Catholic churches declare Celibacy as a choice as opposed to an obligation.

concerned citizen,

Jesus never preached against homosexuality, either. And Paul *did* preach against marriage.

Celibacy is only a symptom of the Church's unhealthful comprehensive regard for human sexuality.

Jesus in the gospel of Matthew: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the [Jewish] law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the [Jewish] law until all is accomplished. Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven." (Mt. 5:17-19)

The Jewish law did not allow for homosexual acts.

Neither did Jewish law permit the consumption of pork. (and a lot of other things) But whenever I point this out to y'all, I am told that Jesus put aside all those old rules and substituted the
"Love God, Love your Neighbor" package.

Can't have it both ways.

Is it any wonder I sometimes just assume it's the fact that Gay sex doesn't appeal and is, therefore, sinful, while those pork chops are just too tasty to be "bad"?

When did Jesus say it was ok to eat pork? Jesus put aside empty going through the motions of the Jews. He pointed out that there were things more important that simply following rules on pork or ritual washing and other things. Christ calls us to put to God ahead of what we want. Gay sex is all about doing what you want. Rationalize it however you wish. The bottom line is the New Testament denounces homosexuality. You don't have to accept it. That choice is entirely yours to make.

Anonymous,

And ... heterosex is something other than "doing what you want"? If so, how are you yourself doing, putting God ahead of those desires?

You may call it rationalization. I just call it pointing out inconsistancy and hypocricy.

If one is committing adultery or engaging in sex outside of marriage then there is no difference so there is no hypocrisy. As for how I'm doing that is between me and God just as whatever you are doing is between you and Him.

And since you will deny us the institution of marriage, we Gay folk are in something of a catch-22 aren't we?

My questions are rhetorical, Ananoymous. No response is expected. I'm just asking that you examine (quietly) the extent to which you adhere to the standards of behavior you require of me (putting aside the convenient fact that your own sexual desires bear your stamp of approval).

I examine them daily and I am sorry you are in the situation you find yourself. I never said I haven't fallen short in various areas and differnt times in my life. That's why I ask for forgiveness and trust that through Christ I have it. You are free to choose the path you take in life. I have no desire to force you to do anything. Christianity is a choice one makes and no one ever said it was easy. In fact Christ paints a pretty good picture it won't be.

Anonymous,

I appreciate the very graceful tone of your response. My chosen path, free of religion, but conscientious and "moral," takes on a route different from yours, though perhaps as challenging. My voice here sometimes takes on a stridency born of frustration and annoyance at those who believe -- because I am not religious and because I am outside the sexual norm -- I am amoral. I truly don't feel that from you. I apologize if I have come on to strong ... and again, I thank you.

Although it does get difficult sorting out all the "anonymice" at times.

BankStreet - No apology is required. You asked questions and said what was on your mind and in your heart. Christians are called to proclaim the message not to force it on those who do not want it. While I may not agree with your choice I respect it and your right to choose and live your life as you wish. I make no moral judgments on you. I have my own failings in life so I am not qualified to judge anyone. You appear to be a caring and considerate person I wish you well on the path you have chosen and hope you won’t be offended if I pray for you.