Muslims must be desensitized by such cartoons in the press. Bigots frequently ridicule Jesus in movies and by swearing.
We do not see Christians coming out on streets or attacking publishers.

Muslims by reacting are doing exactly what these violators of religious sensitivities are trying to do.

I think it partly has to do with their country of origin where free speech is controlled and any word against religion results and Blasphemy.

Muslims countries must educate their citizens at home and abroad.
Every Embassy should have a discussion of such issues on their websites.

From the photograph of the protesters( Associated Press) it is obvious that these people are the Hijab-crowd who are very rigid and extreme in the their views.

They want to live in Europe but behave like Arabs from 1400 years ago.
They are not really hurt as God is strong enough to defend his prophets.
They are simply using this as a pretext to gain recognition for their "Nun-like- outfits"
The best thing to do is to deplore any caricature of someone's religious figures but also ignore these people.

isn't it Oslo, not Oslao? I believe I see a typo.

As long as the protests are kept peaceful they should be allowed to hold them. Of course concerned citizen is probably right they probably are doing what those who posted the pics wanted them to do.

Anyone who takes to the streets in protest because of a depiction of one of their religious figures is being too prideful. If it is the real God then He will take care of the situation Himself.

Shame on you all, since when mockery of other ppl's religion to this low level considered a free SPEECH? Islam is not the religion of the Arabs only, but has followers worldwide including in Denmark itself. Y aggravate Muslims world wide in such manner by doing low acts, yet call them backwards and aggressive. Imagine a muslim country making a cartoon of Jesus as a rotten lamb crucified on the cross or marry having a huge vagina with the sign of "FREE ENTRY ONE NIGHT STAND ONLY" imagine how the Christians of the world would feel towards that muslim cartoonist, but since Islam teaches us to respect all religions this is used as a weakness on our behalf. and could muslim cartoonists also use the word"democracy and free speech" ? I don't think so.. think of a worst scenario, an image of marry with a picture of vagina and a sign saying" i want more bastard children pls fuck me" how would you Christians would feel.. sham on all of you that see this low act as a form of democracy it shows how immoral and evil the west has become...

Jesus and Moses are also Prophets of Muslims. Quran is a continuation of the old and new testament. Why would you want to sink to the level of the Cartoonist even while presenting us examples of who someone could insult God's prophet
We would simply regard someone doing that as a trouble maker trying to sow the seeds of hatred and ignore him. That is what most Christians do.
Muslims especially the HIjabi types who wish to be seen as more holy, instead of focusing on the injustice done to Muslim women by the men of Saudi Arabia and other Islamic countries are more focused on cartoons and Quran burnings.
they should leave it to God to take care of those who insult his prophets. Muslims must submit to the will of God.
The best way to handle cartooonists and trouble makers who stretch the developed world's freedom of speech is to ignore them

The other option is for Muslims to boycott this newspaper. But protests by the Mullahs are simply just that. They are just using the prophet's insult as a way to justify their unsuccessful ideology. .

I couldn't stop laughing when I read "Islam teaches us to respect all religions" in the comments section. What respect? How does yelling, "Allah ahbar" and shooting at people show respect?

Aishaa...do you even see the hatred contained in your response? I think you need to look a lot more carefully at your own religion. It isn't without persecutive ways.

Aishaa, yes, Islam is the religion with global followers, but unfortunately, the custodians and guardians of Islam right now is the Dark Age joint-alliance Islamists of Al-Qaeda/Taleban, Iranian Mullahs and the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. If Muslims cannot tolerate free speech, I suggest they think back of the great cruelty and oppression in Islamic-ruled countries. Why do they come to the West then? Muslims should accomodate and integrate to modern and western progressive and liberated values. Why do you think other religion is not being ridiculed and only Islam is? It's because of these Dark Age most arrogant and barbaric behaviour and attitude of Islamist (male) elite class, who have hijacked God and Islam, and are causing so much suffering to the world and humanity, whether to ordinary Muslim themselves or non-believers, including in vile mass terrorism and the unacceptable murder and torture towards women/girls, converts from Islam and gays!

When will Europe wake up?!! Islam is a cancer, infecting the whole of Europe. It is time EU takes a tough stand on these lunatics!!

Islam needs to grow up. Where are the protests over domestic violence or illiteracy or terrorism? Islam, as a religion, needs to grow up.

I think what the Muslims did is great, everytime Christ is degraded in movies,books and everything, all the Christians should stand up and protest and boycott. If we did I promise you it would stop, so good for the Muslims at least they stand up for their religion.

Islam will be respected the day when all muslim nations like Saudi Arabia, Iran,Sudan, etc... will allow freedom to other religions, accept to build churches like the west nations are okaying building mosques and accept that a muslim has the right to convert to another religion instead of threatening him with death or even killing him like this happens every day in Iran, in Pakistan and Sudan.
In addition the muslim men must cease considering women as sexual objects and domestic slaves, and acknowledge that they have the same rights as men.
For example why are women stoned when they cheat their husbands. In my opinion there are more cheating husbands in muslim countries than wives. Once a mufti will order a fatwa against cheating men, I am afraid there would be a great number of stoned men.

Aishaa. I have no time for disrespect shown to Islam or any other religeon.

You would do well to remember, "It is not what goes into the mouth (or mind) that defiles. It is what comes out "

Your post shows you to have a filthy, vile mind, heart and tongue, to be able to write such impure, unchaste remarks about any one, let alone Mary, whose name is also mentioned in Koran. May God, also known as Alla forgive you.

Watch and read mohammed T-shirt art from Sweden at,
http://www.mohammedt-shirt.com

What is incredulous is that the newspaper was only reporting on the fact that hate cartoons were being published on the internet and showing one of the cartoons as proof. So, in reality, the protesters are protesting the fact the newspaper was informing people about unacceptable hate speech. Lovely.

One would think that the protestors would first give credit to the newspaper for bringing such unacceptable hate speech to the attention of its readers. Then they could have suggested that in the future, the actual cartoons could be blurred or obscured out of respect for their religion most cherished beliefs. Seems to me that assuming good intentions, being rational, and educating others could go along way to demonstrating that one belongs to a religion of peace.

We westerners would do good to have some manners and make reasonable accommodations for others most cherished beliefs. It would be a whole lot nicer world if people would decry and marginalize (first and foremost by ignoring) those involved in creating urine soaked statues of Jesus, desecrating the Eucharist, harlot parodies of Mary, orange robed hare krishna comedy skits, burning crosses, swastikas, and other acts or words rooted in hate and disrespect. People who do these things are looking for attention. Take away the attention and they loose their power. Marginalize them by ignoring them and ostracizing them while simultaneously promoting the benefits of respecting and enjoying the diversity of cultures and religions in the world.

When we westerners are frustrated with the intolerance of some of the religions of the world, we might have better success if we strove to respect the basic tenets of the other religions especially those simple things that just amount to having good manners. If we know that something is sacred to someone else, we should not desecrate it or make fun of it.

On the other hand if a person belongs to a religion with more restrictions than others belief systems, that person should not expect others to adopt to their standards and not take offense because the other person does not adopt your standards. The Amish are a beautiful example of co-existing peacefully despite a radically different life-style.

Lastly, the west does need to wake up with regard to radical islamic groups that hold that the goal of a "good" muslim is to create and live in an Islamic state that treats everyone else as second class citizens. This is the real conflict with the west. In this form, Islam becomes a political system and belief system which is as antithetical to western democracy as communism. Those who hold to such beliefs should not be granted citizenship in the first place. Countries who hold such beliefs should not be accepted as equals by those countries who believe that all citizens are equal and have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. This should apply to all countries who hold that a person is to be denied equality or freedom because of their religion or lack thereof. We should call a spade a spade. We should not tire in our efforts to spread the right to freedom of religion and conscience that can only truly exist if we have mutual respect of each other despite our differences.

There is only one GOD and that is JESUS CHRIST !!
He died on the cross for you for your salvation !!
He loves you !!
Repent and be saved !!!

Mohammad is NO prophet in ANY Christian Church. Proove otherwise.

JMJ : You are correct and all those born to Christian houses should take note.

THN: You are correct. Mohammad cannot be a prophet in any Christian Church because MOhammad came after Jesus to give his message. Those who converted are called Muslims and they believe in his message.
Similarly, before Jesus there were many jews who did not believe in Jesus and were rightly against him.
However those that converted are now Christians and believe in Jesus.
Jews who are born today believe in JUdaism and are neither Christian or MUslim

All these births are taking place with the will of God and J,C,M are all Jews, Christians and Muslims by the will of God.
Similarly you will not find any reference to a Hindu who are close to 800 million and would not allow anyone to enter their Kitchen are nowhere to be found in any of the books like the Bible or the Quran. Ditto for Buddhists and Atheists..

Why does this cartoonist consider profaning religious sensibilities "free speech?" He didn't need to do that. I'm not Muslim, but his cartoon deeply offends me.

The best way to handle such bigots is to ignore them.
Jesus who is also a prophet of the Muslims although most uneducated Muslims have been led to believe otherwise since none of them study the Quran with meaning.
My Muslim friends tell me that Quran instructs Muslims to respect all religions that preceded them and not force anyone to follow the Muslim path.
In India the Muslims ruled for 1000 years and Hindus were never forced to convert. Although in Eurpope during the inquisition many Jews and Muslims converted to Catholicism to avoid persecution.
That is why we must have complete separation of church and state in Muslim countries.
BTW if you die in Saudi Arabia and you are a Hindu you cannot be buried there. I understand non-Muslims cannot be buried there. Although there are many Saudis who are buried in our cemeteries in USA and Europe

Aishaa, your post is highly offensive. There is no need to be lewd and pornographic, especially regarding the persons of Jesus and Mary, who Islam itself esteems and celebrates as being holy. Readers would have been receptive to you had you expressed yourself in a genteel way. Why attack the Christians for the insult offered to you? The cartoonist is an Atheist.

Considering that ALL religion is just an institutionalized and dogmatized accumulation of the myths and superstitions of our less than enlightened flat earther ancestors, any respect shown to ANY of them is unwarranted. You want your god concepts respected, then prove that that god, or gods, exist and that its nature is exactly what you believe it to be...... or shut up.

as a muslim
i am 100% angry at what was published and hold the Norwegian government responsible for allowing these hate crimes. if they do not stop it its up to them.
its the same as anti-semitism and racism and mass xenophobia.

I am also 100% against any insults against the Prophets Moses and Prophet Jesus (may peace be upon them both"

so the idea that we need to accept "hate crimes" and live None-sense.
People should respect each other.
and the media must not become a house of racism and hate crime !

the people here are calling Hate crimes a form of freedom ?
so why not racism next ? and then have another Ultra far right Nazi nations in europe
its not far-fetched the way things are going

Muslims remind me of PETA. Animals are important but God created people to be more important than animals. You cant tell that to them though, with many being obsessed with their pets which they consider as being more loving and important than the people around them. God created Muslims as a thorn in the side to the Jews for punishment for what Abraham did. They are important, but not important like the only Son of the only true God, Christ and His Father. You cant tell that to Muslims though, who use various people in their religion as replacements for Christ. PETA wants to dump a bucket of blood on Johnny Weir. Muslims spill blood wherever they can in the name of their religion. If you are a Christian, all of this is unnecessary. God takes care of things for you and corrects what is wrong. He probably doesnt send people to hell for wearing animal fur, and He sends people to heaven who follow His Son.

Muslim,
It's about forgiveness, period. Love your enemies...and turn the other cheek. That's what Jesus taught. That's what really works perfectly! Everything else are just distractions!

Little ,Muslim, Clay & Catholic:
HAVE YOU READ THE ARTICLE??????
THIS ARTICLE IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

This is what the author of this article is talking about. About Muslims acknowledging other religions and not being totally obsessed with their faith.

God takes care of the bigots. Arrest them if they break the law , otherwise simply ignorethem

Robert – I see you preaching your message that people who believe in something you choose not to believe aren’t worthy of respect. Fortunately logical and reasonable people don’t share such intolerant views. It’s the concept that those who believe something I don’t deserve respect that has helped create much of the world’s misery and suffering. I guess we could call you a fundamentalist atheist.

ravensfan - If you mean that a "fundamentalist atheist" is someone who does not accept, or respect, the unsupportable, made-up delusionally superstitious compilation of the myths of our less than intellectual ancestors, who thought the world was flat and disease was caused by demons, then I guess you have nailed it. That you claim such people, who could swallow that monumental pile of rubbish, are "logical and reasonable people ", only makes any argument you could make, based on that absurd notion, patently ridiculous.

" God created Muslims as a thorn in the side to the Jews for punishment for what Abraham did" Clay is that some sort of divine revelation you received? I don't recall seeing in mentioned in the Bible.

Robert – What I mean by fundamentalist atheist is someone who believes only other atheists are deserving of respect. Your statement that God is a made up superstitious compilation of the myths of delusional less than intellectual ancestors is nothing more than your own opinion. While you are most certainly entitled to it, reasonable and logical people don’t make judgments on who is deserving of respect based on what they believe or don’t believe. I hate to burst your bubble but you are about as far away from being a reasonable or logical person as one can possibly get. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen you even make an argument that didn’t have at least one logical fallacy. Most contain several.

ravensfan - You are free to believe any pile of crap you wish, but do not expect us to respect that which has not earned respect because of its spurious nature, history of forced compliance and its tendency to intrude on those too bright to buy into it, or too weak to resist it. Your need to be respected for your delusions is becoming quite manic.

After all Dagbladet published what was newsworthy--it showed what was happening on Facebook--people were leaving offensive messages about Islam on Facebook and the picture simply depicted a man who was looking at one of those images--that does not mean the newspaper Dagbladet was complicit in disparaging Islam--the Muslims should be protesting against Facebook for not taking down those images--if they are so concerned--which they shouldn't be.

Dagbladet was merely a vehicle that carried the news. Herein lies the folly of religion--the protesters forget the source of the material, they care not one whit about freedom of speech, they defend the myth of their religion that has become their reality, they use the West's freedom of assembly and right to free expression to denounce what results when those principles are practiced.

On this blog Aishaa appears to compound matters by asking how denigration of Christ or Mary--in the vilest of terms-- would be tolerated by the Christians--the Christians rebut, sanctimoniously some, and furiously others--"turn the other cheek to how dare you-to how can you sink so low?" and Concerned Citizen inserts in this rambunctious melee his two bit worth--800 million Hindus of this world, he claims, won't let others into their kitchens--where did you get that one Concerned Citizen? Not true--fallacies and off the cuff lies are Concerned Citizen's specialty--in comes Ashoka into the fray claiming that Muslims did not convert Hindus to Islam--from where sprang the 150 million Muslims of India, Ashoka? Did they just crop up from the soil? Muslims are aggressive proselytizers and converters across the world--while many convert to Islam spontaneously, others are paid money to do so--Saudi money flows into South Asia and desperately poor Hindus are being paid hefty sums to convert to Islam even today--this is called "economic jihad"and then there is "love jihad" when Muslim men target Hindu girls and boys to love and insist on conversion to Islam if marriages are to take place--ever since the Mughals invaded India the Muslims have indulged in conversions--that 800 million Hindus are still around is a testament to the tenacity of these Hindus and not a testament to the disinterest of the Muslims in conversion--but yet Ashoka distorts history in one speedy post.

All that aside, the incendiary nature of religion, the head butting of the Christians with the Muslims with the Hindus and the Buddhists went on for centuries--through the Dark Ages, the Middle Ages, even through the Enlightenment and the awakening of men in industrial times--but if in the age of technology and science it does not stop then men and women are hopelessly mired in and inured to myths.

Robert Littel is the only sane voice on this blog--in will come Ravensfan with his hatchet to say that Littel himself is a zealot--a practitioner of Atheism as a religion--the truth is there is no hope whatsoever for mankind unless it stops taking the so called holy books literally--until it stops deifying men as gods and prophets--stops glorifying fallacious mortals as perfect spirits--when we study the holy books as no more than literature--as portals to our collective historical past--when unrealities--mirages--are no more our realities and our oases then we will redeem ourselves from Muslim marches, from retorts of the sort that Aishaa has posted and the righteous indignation that has then flown from the typing fingers of the outraged ones.

Shed your love of your gods--stop misrepresenting history to befit the best version of your own religion--or the best version of all religions--or of all gods--evolve--move on guys and dolls--you have the power of your minds to leave the gods and the prophets behind.
Ravensfan Anon

Robert – Don’t confuse my pointing out your own narrow minded and arrogant notions on respect with somehow needing yours. What one chooses to believe or disbelieve shouldn’t be the basis for determining if they are worthy of respect. That’s the point which somehow seems to elude you. You also foolishly equate religious beliefs to intelligence. What thinking like that really does is show your own narrowness of vision and lack of wisdom. . If you as bright as you claim you would understand that treating all people with respect is how we overcome differences and work for the common good. Arrogantly assuming only those who share your beliefs or lack of belief is what creates strife and discord and eventually suffering. In fact the very accusations you make against religion “spurious nature, history of forced compliance and its tendency to intrude” is the result of that very problem. Instead learning from the mistakes made by most religions in the past you are simply repeating them in the name of atheism. Oh by the way unless you lead some group or have been elected atheist spokesperson drop the “us”. You speak only for yourself and the views you express are only your own. Although I’m sure there are others who probably share them.

One more strike against your invalid concept that religious beliefs and intelligence are not mutually exclusive traits.

http://www.adherents.com/people/100_scientists.html

Some on this list are atheist some are not. They don’t all share my beliefs but they did have a belief in God of some kind so you may want to rethink that nonsense of being too bright to buy into it.

Anon - I don't need to call Robert anything. His posts on this board speak for themselves as do your own. Since you share his views it stands to reason you would see him as the only sane voice. Your objectivity is hardly objective in determining sanity. You are certainly entitled to believe whatever you wish as am I.

ravensfan - If you didn't have a deep seated need for validation of your superstitious beliefs, then you wouldn't be trying so hard to silence those who have no need for such delusional crutches. When it comes to irrational behavior, the moral absolutist who wants his twisted view of reality to be the societal norm, is the most persistent and intractable of creatures. Short of being able to purge us from society (now frowned upon in Western cultures), you demand that we exhibit neutrality while you get to further push your imperatives. Don't hold your breath waiting for us to comply.

I should have said in my previous post, "when Muslim men and women target Hindu women and men respectively for romance and love"--the way I put it makes it sound as though Muslim men target Hindu boys--which they don't at least overtly because, one of the peculiarities of Islam is its outright bias against homosexuals--persecuting them and publicly executing them is an Islamic specialty--therefore Muslim men in South Asia dare not target Hindu boys, even if they want to or are prone to because of the dire consequences they must face from their Islamic compatriots.
Ravensfan Anon
Ravensfan Anon

Robert - You just don't get it do you? I don't know how much simpler I can state the concept for you. It's about treating people with respect even those you disagree with. You can disagree with a person without attacking them or their beliefs & views. Stop being so paranoid no one is trying to silence you. Again with the “us” nonsense. I haven't demanded anything of you. I have suggested that you should treat others with more respect. You just can't seem to comprehend it or just don’t want to do it. Considering your own view of reality you should refrain from calling anyone else’s twisted. That’s just a suggestion. I don’t want you accusing me of trying to silence you again or force my twisted views like people should be treated with respect on you.

ravensfan - You don't get it. I will never respect STUPID. There isn't anything more stupid than delusional superstitionists trying to ram their made-up god concepts down every-one's throat. I don't respect them, you, or anyone whose goal it is is to make me bow, even a little bit, in deference to their ignorant myth driven absurdities.

Robert - What you don't get is because you personally consider something stupid or delusional doesn't make it so. By making such assertions you don't really come off any better than those you attack, especially when you stereotype all believers. If you don't want to believe then don't that's your right. I have no interest in making you believe or bow down to anything.

Your namby pamby pabulum against Robert doesn't hold--you always say he should disagree without attacking someone personally but if you are a compendium of your beliefs, my Ravensfan, if you are an amalgam of all that you believe in and your spirituality is a big part of who you are--as you have verified on these blogs--and if this spirituality makes you reject homosexuality as a sin, or abortion as a killing--why shouldn't he attack you?

Robert rightly judges you as an insidious man--a voice of reason on the surface and a voice of danger in the substance of what you say--mainly because social issues are legislated and you are also a political voice-- your power to abridge the rights of homosexuals or women who want to keep abortion safe and accessible is palpable and real-- recognizing your potential for harm others, Robert confronts you with all the force of his belligerence--to Robert you are a red flag masquerading and blowing in the wind as a green one--you make HIM see red--instead of begging for the civility you are never going to get from Robert--instead of belaboring the point, explain to him please, why you are not hazardous to the freedoms he considers precious--as he has repeatedly told you, he will not take away from you or yours the right to not have anal sex, or the right to worship one god or many gods or the right to not have an abortion but your stand--your pounding away at abortion as murder with no weighing in the balance of extenuating circumstances--which Robert calls absolutist--your stand will certainly harm many women if you or your ilk become the sweeping political force in this country--or your stand that anal sex is an affront to the divine--benign on the surface--may be benign in your hands but in the hands of an extremist who would intervene on behalf of god to set matters straight-- a big danger for homosexuals--your cunning insistence that no belief in god too is a belief if it is forcefully represented--and your obsessive pursuit of Robert from blog to blog for rebuttals--all these Ravensfan remove you from the "innocence realm" into the "malevolent" one for Robert--he takes you on forcefully, as he should, because you are out to curb his Atheist intellectual swagger --you want to show him that belief does not blunt intellectual rigor--in fact belief may be tonic to the brain--which Robert will never accept because to quote scriptures from eons back as proof that homosexuality is a sin even if indeed science points to sexuality as a prenatal imprint on the brain--to say that nature can and should be fought with nurture--and to make homosexuality a choice based on a couple of quotes from a couple of books in your bible--that puts you in the intellectually bereft category for Robert and no amount of clever argument to the contrary will redeem you in his eyes as an intellectual stalwart--- don't tell me that his contempt for your intellect does not rankle Ravensfan--for you chase him to prove him wrong so many times and you bully him for his passionate conviction that people like you should be feared and swatted--spouting subtle shades of molasses talk, you espouse the absolute morals of the puritans and the stance of the bible takes the upper hand with you over science--you never ask how the bible knows something to be true or not--bible is truth because it is the word of god to you--but you certainly ask how can this or that science be true--precisely what Robert abhors and his strong language for your genuflection to that which can neither proved to be true nor proved to be untrue--god--that which does not lend itself to the rigorous examination of rational minds- that which demands submission based on faith--you deserve his strong language--you are East and he is West--never the twain shall meet Ravensfan--Robert who appears to be an abrasive extremist is ahead of his times--he is exasperated with those who would love science as long as it doesn't destroy or shake their faith--he is exasperated with faith that destroys so many lives with labels like sinner--abortionists, those who have abortions, homosexuals, women who allow themselves to be ordained against biblical edicts, bishops who are willing to bless homosexual marriages--sinners all--the disingenuous religious assertion that the sinners themselves are loved and the sin alone hated--that too he loathes --and why shouldn't he? So he fights you tooth and nail--and attacks you personally Ravensfan--your person, to him, is indistinguishable from your beliefs---if his opinion does not matter you would leave him alone--his effrontery vexes your composure-- you want to prove he too is a bigoted believing zealot--this way you seek solace that all human beings believe just like you do Ravensfan--you want company in your intellectually vacuous pit called blind faith.
Ravensfan Anon

Anon – Such a long winded post. I initially considered making a lengthy rebuttal, However as I stared to compose it I figured why bother. I can not change your view of me anymore than I can change Roberts. You both make judgments about me and others you know so little about based on your own biased views. I believe it is possible to discuss debate and disagree without the need for personal attacks and mocking. If Robert and you aren’t capable of that so be it. It really makes no difference to me.

Why does Anon-sign off as Ravensan anon:
see below:
you want to prove he too is a bigoted believing zealot--this way you seek solace that all human beings believe just like you do Ravensfan--you want company in your intellectually vacuous pit called blind faith.
Ravensfan Anon

Are you challenging yourself with a post and then responding, because you are lonely and need to do something by continuously responding back and forth, back and forth.

Ravensfan AKA Anon you need help.
You should see a psychiatrist. He will surely prescribe you something useful for this Jackyl and HYde syndrome.

Muslims should grow up and embrace complete Freedom of Speech instead of being Cry-babies.
The best course is to ignore people who criticize religion.
Many Hindus worship Mice, Snakes, Phallus Symbols and Statues of Gods that are supposed to fly etc etc. Now their religion predated Judaism so we do not know what is the basis. But they also believe in one Almighty God and have a book like the Abrahameic faiths.

The Abrahamic faiths do not know about Hinduism because it predates them. I am surprised why God does not mention Hinduism in the Bible or the Quran.

concerned citizen - I know it's been explained before that Ravensfan Anon and I are different individuals. He was originally an anonymous poster. His sign off is the result of comments I made regarding him posting anonymously. Did you ever here what happens when you assume?

You might want to pass along that advice on growing up, embracing complete freedom of speech instead of being Cry-babies to Bill Donohue and others who blew a gasket over Lindsay Lohan's crucifixion pose on the cover of the French fashion magazine Purple.

Ravensfan,
Concerned Citizen is unsalvageable--don't try the impossible--explaining our overlapping names to a man who is stuck on Hinduism (why isn't Hinduism mentioned in the Bible he asks--for Pete's sake Concerned One, die, go to heaven or hell, confront all the dead ones of yore and pose the question to them). The guy thinks you are answering your own posts Ravensfan---what a quaint concept--when you make an appointment with a psychiatrist who can unravel our name problem, let me know Ravensfan--I'll meet you there-- we will invite Concerned Citizen to the session and eventually leave him babbling on the couch--even the psychiatrist would flee such a scene, leaving Concerned Citizen alone, talking to the walls about similar sounding names being the bane of his absent intelligence.
Ravensfan Anon

Gee, I was wondering why my company's "Prophet Muhammad Brand" pickled pig's feet weren't selling well in Iran.

Robert - On another blog you said you.

"I am fighting against the stupidity and ignorance that has infected our political and social institutions"

Looks more like you are here spreading it to me.

ravensfan - Congratulations, you have been blessed to win the daily prize, an all expense paid trip for one to "Bible-land" (includes two slightly used Sabeans), twenty goat skins of Holy water, a lifetime supply of Prophet Muhammad toilet bowl face decals and twenty four hours locked in a windowless 12 X 12 foot room with Clay.

Robert -. Is this an example of that monopoly of reason and logic you spoke about on another blog? If this is a sample of atheist logic I feel sorry for you and all atheists.

By the way. Lindsey Vonn has been stripped of her gold medal. President Obama has been going downhill faster than her.

I *know* I am asking for trouble here, but what the heck are you talking about, Clay???

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/22/AR2010022205010.html

And tell me how this latest hallucination (to say nothing of your gratuitous slam of the President) has any relevance to the item under discussion. (See, I told you I was asking for trouble.)

ravensfan,

Although I sometimes describe myself as an antheist (but prefer the term, "unbeliever" ), Mr Littel's tone and manner make me uncomfortable. I do try to be respectful (Although Clay will sometimes provoke me....), because I believe respect engenders respect, and civility engenders civility. We are not on the road to Tarsus here; there will be no conversions, in either direction. We're here for adult conversation and exchange of views/ideas.

BankStreet - I agree with you on what you said about respect. We may not be able to agree on things but that doesn't mean we need to disrespect anyone. Just because someone finds an idea or belief absurd doesn’t mean they need to disrespect someone else who doesn’t share their view. We all tend to see the world not as it truly is but as we perceive it anyway. I have always found you to be respectful even when you disagree. You are one of the few people I have been able to have a reasonable discussion on topics.

I think that what I said has plenty to do with the discussion. First of all one of the reasons for the president going downhill with American voters is because of his support of Islam. He comes out with a statement in support of Ramadan but wouldnt give the same support for Easter. He had a Muslim minister associated with a terrorist group say a prayer at one of his events. He said that America is not a Christian nation in Turkey. He said "lets not jump to conclusions" in he investigation of the Muslim shooter on the army base. He is out of touch with the American voters, as Massachusetts and Virginia have shown. His is also a passive supporter of terrorism. The statement about him going downhill was actually made by the next American president, Mitt Romney, at the last CPAC meeting. So I disagree with your statements and your way of bringing up an article in support of the president. If that is what you believe then as far as the American voters are concerned, you may be the one who is hallucinating. Thanks.

Clay - If anyone is hallucinating from snorting dried powdered fairy dung, it would have to be you. Everything you purport can only be justified by stepping outside the realm of reality, by subscribing to delusionalism and institutionalized superstition.

BankStreet - You were right that question you ask Clay was looking for trouble and Clay was nice enough to oblige you by giving it to you and allowing Robert an easy opportunity to go off on one of his usual tirades. I was thinking about pointing some things out to Clay, but after thinking about it for a minute I decided I didn't want to encourage him or Robert.

Clay - The subject is a protest in Norway about an image of Muhammad so your editorial on the President has nothing to do with the discussion. Maybe you could try and stick to the topic next time.

Robert Littel - Maybe sometime you could actually contribute something to a discussion as opposed to just posting meaningless insults.

If the old and new testament and the Quran tell the story of the world from Adam--First human being on earth, deported for discovering his private parts, ditto for Eve then I have a question.
Hinduism and Buddhism is older then the old testament. How come there is no mention of Lord Ram, or other Indian deities whose extraordinary temples stand today for all to see and worshiped in by a billion people. Is the Christian and Muslim God different from the Hindu God. I think we all share the same God.
Mr. Ravensfan Annoymous and Annoymous. Please only one answer from you. Mr. Clay please answer.

ravensfan - Of course you want to classify anyone, or anything, that is critical of the delusional superstitionist mindset as being a tirade. You have a vested interest in the perpetuation of a world perception that makes you special and somehow able to cheat the finality of death. Religion is a seductive addiction and a prostitution of the intellectual process, designed to limit Human development by making us less inquisitive and more accepting of hierarchical control. Any time Clay, or any other absolutist religionist jumps in and sprinkles fairy-dust, they can expect the same level of disrespect that they have worked so hard to earn.

Robert - I only class empty insult ridden posts like the one you made to Clay as a tirades. I find your opinion of me meaningless and lacking any reason, logic or intellect. The same could be said of your opinion on religion as well. Any regular visitor here already knows you routinely disrespect anyone who does not share your illogical, ill-informed and bigoted views gets disrespected.

ravensfan - Clay gets what Clay deserves. He has chosen to ignore anything I post, but I certainly do not ignore the unmitigated pile of crap he seems to want to spew, without being held to task for its idiocy.

As to respecting religion, I find there is no difference between what you believe and what one native tribe believes when they communicate with their hairy god by reading the signs in animal entrails. You are all just sorry holdovers who are now holding us all back in a world that needs to shed its unprovable, unsupportable dependence on something that can only logically be called delusion and superstition. If you want respect from me, cough up your silly god for all of us to see, otherwise, keep it out of our face, we ain't buying it.

As a point of fact, the United State is not a "Christian Nation" and never has been. One of the first treaties signed by the young nation with a foreign power (Tripoli) in 1797, contains this clause:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

I am immensely proud that my President underscored this fact more than 200 years later, in his effort to heal the wounds caused by too many years of jingoism and religious hubris.

Still not sure about where you got that stuff about Lindsey Vonn ... and why....

Oh, and Clay, you might find the attached interesting:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/video/Your-Weekly-Address-April-11-2009

And yes, the President did extend Ramadan greetings:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/video/President-Obama-Gives-Ramadan-Message

If you can open your mind and heart, give this one a listen...and then tell us honestly if you can find anything offensive in this message from the President of a nation that includes millions of Muslim citizens ... and a nation that is at war in two predominantly Muslim countries.

BankStreet - Don't hold your breath that Clay will give up his Christian Nation idea. Of course he'll question my Christianity for saying such blasphemy.

What ever happened to Annoymous signing off as Ravensfan , being quickly followed by Ravensfan.

Thank God someone has been cured!
All your discussions have nothing to do with the subject matter," Image of Mohammad being portrayed as Pig by bigots".
You should use MSN messenger for your banter instead of useless postings back and forth.
Comments should be relevant to the subject Mr. Ravensfan and Bankstreet and Anony.
I see Ravensfan has finallay realized

ConcernedCitizen,

The nature of a blog allows tangents from the original topic. I agree that the original posting is thereby neglected, but often the resulting discussion is often of some (sometime greater) value.

In this particular case, I entered the discussion late, having been struck by Clay's wild diversion into his fantasy linking Lindsey Vonn imagined failure and Presidential politics. My responses to him did, eventually, come back at least to a discussion of attitudes toward Islam.

ravensfan.

In my fantasies, I imagine Clay watching the video of the President extending Easter greetings and ... pausing a moment to question his narrow world view. One can dream, can't one?

No, I won't hold my breath, but I probably won't stop answering his uninformed (and sometimes fantastical) rants with simple, contrary, and irrefutable evidence.

Concerned Citizen,
Pure and simple, you are a nut case. What has your question about Hinduism got to do with what's in the Bible and what's not in it about Ram the Hindu god? Who can answer your piece of idiotic inquiry with any sort of relevance? Who knows why Ram is not there--who the devil cares, man? And if one does care to answer the question that bothers your troubled mind--then one will say, Ram is not in the Bible because Jesus didn't know Ram--because Ram is a confabulation of the Hindus--because Jesus is a concoction of the Christians--the two could never meet except in fairy land--why isn't Jehovah mentioned in the Ramayana? Do you know the answer to that nutty question? Practice what you preach. With your rants you have strayed so far away from the subject of Mohammed being depicted as a pig by Danish bloggers--it ain't even funny. From Mohammed being a pig, to why Ram the Hindu God is not mentioned in the Bible--you think that is a smooth transition or do you imagine that is staying on topic? You are so stupid, you are unable to see the difference in style and beliefs between Ravensfan and Ravensfan Anon. No wonder you want to stay on topic--your mind neither flits nor grasps concepts fast. It stays singularly focused on questions no one can answer.
Ravensfan Anon

@Annonymous:
What do you mean by the nonsensical last two words in your attack on me?.
RAVENSFAN ANON

Are u a Ravensfan ?
Soon we will see Ravensfan responding!
my question is " why Ram or Buddha are not mentioned while the Pharaohs of Egypt are mentioned in the story of Moses in the old testament?
Ans. ?.

concerned citizen,

Clearly, the semi-nomadic story-tellers who recounted the fables and laws we now know as the Old Testament had no knowledge of many civilizations outside the circle of their wanderings. I don't see this as any great mystery.