"So many religions dedicated to escaping the wheel, instead of saying yes to it." --Cynic

Good for CORE. Having a pastor who is homosexual is no different than having a pastor who is drunk in the pulpit. God says that both homosexuality and drunkeness are wrong. "Good morning friends and neighbors (hiccup). Let us open our hymnals (hiccup). Hold on let me get a shot of this morning coffee. Yeeehah! Ok lets sing number 117, whatever it is." A pastor needs to set a good example for the congregation. If kids in the congregation see him being drunk or homosexual, they will use that as an excuse to do perform that similiar behavior themselves. 1 Timothy 3: 2-4 says, "A bishop must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that rules his own house well, having his children in subjection with all gravity." The bible condemns homosexuality in many places. So why in the world would a church allow gay clergy? Revelation 22: 18-19 says that we are not to add to the words of the bible or take away from them. Catholics have been guilty of not necessarily adding things to the bible but of adding all sorts things to the service as though they were God's word and justifying it by saying that they were there before the New Testament was written and used. However that isnt neccasarily true. Paul was writing much of the new testament right after Christ died. The Roman traditions didnt come until later. Praying to Mary didnt come until later. The church wasnt called Catholic until later (St Ignatius) and the great majority of these traditions came after the bible in its entirety was written. Is this adding to the bible? To a certain extent it is because the traditions are treated as if they are as important or more important than some scripture. It is more like an insinuation that it is God's word, not because the bible says so, but because some Saint or someone started it and it has been a part of the tradition for so long, and, after all, the saint heard it from God. Now we have protestants and other churches taking away from the bible. It is worse than what the Catholics are doing. I got an email from Chick Publications recently about bibles being printed and leaving out some of the words of Christ. Like the bible says at the end, we will all stand before Christ and what we have done will be read back to us.

Clay – I see you are still spreading your misguided ideas on Catholic doctrine. I’m not going to go through refuting all the errors again. I’ve done it far too many times already and you appear to not want to accept the truth or take the time to learn about Catholicism. Do you know what the Bible says about judging others? I left you a bunch of verses on another blog. For your sake I hope you read and reflect on them. By the way most of Paul’s letters were written in the 50 - 60 AD range about 20 years or more after Christ ascension. The earliest surviving witness to the use of the term Catholic Church is by St Ignatius as you mentioned (Letter to the Smyrnaeans) in 106 AD Which tradition is treated as more important that scripture? You made the allegation, but didn’t actually mention any.

Have you ever heard of the Conservative Bible Project. They are on a mission to retranslate using conservative principles to eliminate liberal bias. Never mind that Chris’s teachings in his day were liberal. In essence this group believes the Bible is flawed and in need of correcting. Included in their agenda is taking out passages they deem to be later-inserted inauthentic passages such as the adulteress story in John 7:53-8:11. They also want to use powerful new conservative terms to capture better the original intent and explain the numerous economic parables with their full free-market meaning. If one accepts this group’s ideas we are all using flawed bibles regardless of which version we are using.

What I am trying to illustrate is the need to restrain judgment. There is a fine line between correcting and judging and you tend to cross it in your comments on other denominations. I don’t believe that’s your intent, but it is what you are doing. The little example of the drunk pastor really wasn’t necessary. Do have any idea how many people pastors included may be fighting alcohol addiction? A little more compassion might make your ideas seem a little less judgmental. Think and pray on it.

All pastors are sinners. My point was that homosexuality is a lifestyle, just as alcoholism is. For the Lutheran Church to accept gay ministers is to accept their lifestyle. The bible says that it is wrong. It would probably be obvious to the congregation and certainly would if the pastor admitted being gay. If they didnt then how would the church know it is admitting a gay pastor? It wouldnt be any less wrong for a pastor to be in the pulpit drunk. Both situations would be obvious to the people in the pews. If you accept gay clergy, arent you ignoring the parts of the bible that say that homosexuality is wrong? Yes. If you add traditions as the Catholic church has done (praying to Mary, etc), are you adding parts to the bible? Well not to the bible but you are adding traditions to the service that arent mentioned in the bible. How much difference is there between the two situations? Thanks.

Clay – All of us are sinners. My point was it isn’t very Christ like to make the kind of mocking post you did regarding alcohol abuse/addiction. You really should show more compassion. My friend you are the one who appears to be ignoring the Bible. What makes you feel that Christ’s words about judging the speck in your brother’s eye while ignoring the log in your own does not apply to you? I never said gay clergy was ok. You assume it because your own vision is clouded. We’ve been through the praying to Mary part and most of your other incorrect accusations regarding the Catholic Church. You either can’t or don’t want to understand. Can I ask why I you so readily judge the Church, yet make no criticism of a group trying to edit the Bible to suit their liking? You really need to take time read the Bible and pray and judge other denominations less. You would be well served to spend more time looking inward at where you fall short than trying to point out where others do.

The Catholic Church has been the refuge of homosexuals for centuries. When such behavior was punishable by death, there were damn few places a gay man or woman could hide and still follow their desires outside of sham marriages, the celibate priesthood and convent life were the perfect cover for someone who wanted to hide their nature and gain a level of respect in the general population.

I think the more open nature of gay society has hurt the Catholic Church because the reason they were able to recruit so many clergy and Nuns, has been all but erased.

Clay - you never disappoint, always the idiot on an idiot's quest.