South Carolina--a backwoods state, where the Republican Mark Sanders had his zipper down for an Argentinian who was not his wife and another Republican, Kristi McGuire (South Carolina's Board of Ed's star pornographer) was a mother and an educator by day but a hot number by night in her sordid sex escapades written in the first person--South Carolina, has always been this way. The Bible thumpers want to wear their belief on their cars and they want the state to assist in this effort. Now that they have been shot down, private groups are out to make money in the name of Jesus by issuing the same licenses. Get a life! Where the Bible touters are that's where education is in the pits, people are the most obese, there is the highest incidence of diabetes, illegitimate births are astronomical, out of wedlock births the same, but they BELIEVE and even as they believe they condemn homosexuality, abortion and extra marital sex. Clean up your own backyard folks. Get some education. Get off your fat butts, lose some weight, stop chewing tobacco in the name of the lord, get your girls to stay in school, give them some form of birth control so they won't start proliferating at age 12 years, control the Bible Belt depraved old lechers so that they won't molest children--then get your cars to proclaim your belief. I believe if you believed less half of America will not be staring down an abyss of ignorance and ill health.
Ravensfan Anon

What a shame this is as South Carolina used to have such a nice plate.

It does make one wonder just how sincere and genuine all this faith being proclaimed actually is. On the face of it... it can't possibly be as high as the paranoid promoters of such conformity would have everyone believe.

Anon - You're on quite a roll today. Too much caffine this morning? I'm just kidding. I don't know about the whole state but Myrtle Beach is nice, but I digress. Although I disagree with a lot of your little tirade, you do make some valid points. You don't show your faith by stamping it on a license plate. You show it by the way you conduct yourself and how you live your life.
ravensfan

I'm saddened by the news that Christians won't be able to show who they are on their license plates in South Carolina. I was going to use them to identify individuals to solicit car donations from them, in the event they are raptured away (provided they were not in the moving vehicle at the moment of disappearance). I think it would also be helpful to require that no two Christian believers be paired as pilot and co-pilot on airline flights for similar reasons, as having both of them disappear at the same time at 30,000 feet, could prove detrimental to all us heathens back in coach.

There you are Ravensfan--I am back from a hard day of work and what do I see--you agreeing with me--may be just a minuscule but you actually agree with me--yipee, whoopie, zippie, dippie! Have you witnessed the return of the native Ravensfan? Robert Littel is back on one of these religion blogs with a mild mannered remark--I mean not really mild mannered by your standards but mild mannered by the standards of Littel. Ominous wouldn't you say? I want the old Littel back even though you rail against him. A civilized Littel is like the Mayan 2012-- portends an apocalypse. Clay will be ecstatic when he hears that-- that man cannot bear that the Earth rotates around itself uneventfully and revolves around the sun without incident--he awaiteth the apocalypse like a panther in the jungle awaiteth the scent of prey. Don't tell me after taking up for the Catholic faith now you want to take up for South Carolina too Ravensfan. Why O why do you squander your intelligence so? By the way this Bob Sontrop guy has a lot of meat to chew on with the busybody activities of the Catholic Conference of Bishops at the doorsteps of the Capitol. He hasn't popped up with lyrical paeans to the saints--I wonder if his boss caught him loitering away from the mop and brought him back to Earth with a cold shower of cleaning fluid on his face--as for Pattycakes-- he is nowhere to be seen rhapsodizing about the power of the Church to alter the course of history-- instead we have new entrants to these blogs--powerful and stout Catholic souls taking note of the names of the Congressional members who have voted for death over life. From the time of Machiavelli to now Ravensfan, the Catholic Church has been no more than a political and a business enterprise--with so many brainwashed folks blowing wind into its flailing sails this Church lumbers on, imposing itself on one and all. By the way have you noted Clay has appeared, and most uncharacteristically, thrown his Protestant weight behind the Catholic Conference of Bishops, telling that their money for lobbying comes from their collection plates? Mighty big collection plates these must be Ravensfan and you, by the way, have said that I must provide proof that the Church has tax exempt status. Come on Ravensfan--surely you jest. The Catholic Church, owns the choicest pieces of properties across the land, endowed for a song and dance upon its head and it pays no taxes on all its wealth, its piety (also called mischief and meddling) being its tax exemption. I give up on you Ravensfan. You demand proof for things you know to be true. What kind of proof do you want Ravensfan--for me to appear as an ox before you carrying on my back the income tax returns of the Catholic Conference of Bishops?
Ravensafan Anon

Anon - My original response to your comments didn’t seem to make it. All I said as South Carolina goes is Myrtle Beach is nice, at least I think so. I’ve been there several times with the family. I’ll let the others address your comments regarding them. As for your comments on what the Church that’s your opinion and there is a little truth buried in there. Of course I could ramble on about all the good it’s done as well – schools, hospitals, shelters and so on. You misunderstand me on the issue of taxes. I am well aware of the Church’s tax status. The Church wasn’t the only tax exempt group lobbying. In fact some of the groups lobbying on the other side of the debate are partially funded with our tax dollars. Maybe you should concern yourself with why they aren’t putting the money they get from us to better use than meddling as you call it. You views on how the Church acquired property is partly true. My Church bought the property it holds and paid for the structures on it. You really made no case for taxing the Church. Other than they lobby for positions you oppose. Instead of attacking the Church why don’t you look at the people who actually voted on the amendment? The only reason it was passed is that the reform bill was in danger of not passing and Congressional Leaders wanted to get the USCCB’s support. We both know if the Democrats had the votes they would have thumbed their noses at the USCCB.

Anon--I'm not a South Carolina citizen, and I love to vacation in your state! Hilton Head Rocks!

Yes, the Church is flawed because people are flawed. But, in all our mess-ups, I like to think there has been much good done out of love for God and other people. I know children collecting money for T-giving turkeys for those in need in our community. Near to me, there are also a number of Christian organizations providing food, shelter, counseling, and child care.

Yes, we mess up and we don't always pick the right battles. Heck, even I cringe from time to time. But, in the end, we're all just trying to do what we believe God wants us to do. And, personally, I don't need a license plate for that.

ravensfan - The taxes not being paid on all that property and church income has to be paid by someone. As a someone who thinks that the government's making the rest of us subsidize religion, by paying that portion they don't, is a clear violation of the separation principle of the Establishment Clause of The Constitution. The spread of delusional fairy-tales should not be funded by the use of public funds, in any way.

I just love you Robert. Even when I am having a horrible day you make me laugh out loud. I wonder what Ravensfan will say to that. Despite your acerbity you seem unable to gag the man. Clay may appear on the scene and tell you that belief in the delusional fairy tales are vital for your soul to stay away from the fires of Satan.
Ravensfan Anon

Ravensfan Anon - I come to this forum to be entertained and watching the ministrations of delusional beings ( Proto-Humans, as I like to think of them) can be highly entertaining. They haven't got a clue as to how ridiculous they sound as they tout rubbish as absolute truth, and they do not have the capacity to understand when their hollow arguments are slapped to the ground. There is little left, but to throw back their absurdities by showing the comical side of their being clueless automatons. Clay is a bumbling clown and makes it so easy.

Belief in the delusional fairy tales IS vital--there my grammar was going to pot when I posted my previous expostulation--I said ARE vital--Clay must be doing me in--he does not take you on Robert--have I told you he has done me the honor of dubbing me Satan recently? He seems more preoccupied with Satan than with God--I suspect he is feeling the potency of all the temptations that surround him and the heat of his own wayward ways. A good woman loves him-she has taken a shine to his godly aspirations--he does not love her back but he has decided he'll keep her anyway out of the kindness of his benevolent soul. Ravensfan Anon

Ravensfan Anon - I suppose Clay's using the adoring (and obviously challenged) lady he has reluctantly decided to let hang around, can be justified by the biblical admonition that the male is the superior being in any relationship. He can always dispose of her, as long as they haven't broken a commandment or two yet, and if they haven't she will grow tired of the wuss and go looking for a real man soon enough anyway.

Considering that Satan is one of his gods, he is elevating you to the level of one of his personal deities. You should feel honored.

Robert – Using your logic every tax exempt organization out there is then having is being subsidized by the government isn’t it? Lost potential additional revenue isn’t the same as a subsidy nor does it mean that anyone else pays more because of it. Your abilities with tax law are about as bad as your ability to use logic in an argument. It’s also not a violation of the separation principal created by the courts from the establishment clause. In fact had the courts never created the separation principal your argument would stand a better chance with your argument? As it stands you position is without any legal standing or merit. What you think really doesn’t matter under law.
ravensfan

Non-profits that preach religious dogma are what I'm talking about. If you are handing the homeless a cup of soup along with a sermon, then not one penny of either should be funded with public funds.

Every time a choice piece of property goes off the tax rolls because it becomes "religious", someone else is forced to make up the difference. In the United States, that is a considerable amount of some of the choicest property that exists.

Robert – I agree with you on the cup of soup which is why I was never a supporter of the faith based initiative Bush created It’s too difficult to try and separate the two. There is a difference between receiving funding and having tax exempt status. Do you even have any idea how much property goes as you put it off the tax rolls, what it’s value really is or how much tax you would collect? My guess is you don’t. Tax rates aren’t based on property going off the rolls so how exactly are you paying the difference? Your tax rates wouldn’t be any different. In the end you have nothing to support your opinion except your own belief. If you end up taxing Churches all you will end up doing is creating more hardship among the poor since the Churches will have to cut back on that in order to pay those taxes. Then the state will be running the programs more than likely at a higher cost than the Churches are now. That’s just the way to reduce your tax burden Robert. Let’s collect the money from the Churches and have the government spend more and help less doing the same thing themselves.
ravensfan

Boy Ravensfan--what contradictions--I don't support faith based initiatives--but don't a take away government breaks from the mouth of MY own favorite faith based initiative-- MY CATHOLIC CHURCH. COM. Plain and simple Ravensfan your church is a faith based initiative. It does excellent work with the poor. The nuns are to be commended and they should be put in charge of the erring bachelor boys. By the same token, your church proselytizes, it converts and through its faith based pabulum it is now holding the poor in D.C hostage. It wants the city to scrap its laws that protect gays. It threatens to leave scores of poor biting the dust because it does not want to deal with gays becoming adopters of Catholic charities protected kids. And gays have been running this church for scores of years from the closet. What a load of bull the leaders of the Catholic Church spout. The church, like you, brims with contradictions.
Ravensfan Anon

ravensfan - You are talking to someone who wants to see religion fade away because it is inane and useless. Short of that goal (highly unlikely with people like you walking around), I'll support taxing it into oblivion, as it is ultimately more dangerous than other allowed addictions we tax to the max.

Anon – I see like a good little minion you’re out there helping Robert fight his crusade against religion. Are you his Catholic specialist? You seem to focus most of your venom at the Catholic Church. You seem to have the same mental block on tax laws that Robert suffers from. The fact that you feel the need to insult rather than discuss or debate pretty much says it all about your ability to intelligently support position. Since you and Robert both want to put the Church out of business why would it bother so much that poor will suffer? What do you think would happen if you get your wish and the Church was taxed? You commend the work the Church does with the poor and at the same time attack it and you say I’m the one full of contradictions. You obviously have issues with the Church which goes beyond simply being an atheist.

Robert – I know exactly what you want so you don’t need to explain it. I’ve known that from the first post of yours I ever read. What’s truly sad is you don’t realize just how much you sound like the Taliban, the Inquisition or the other zealots who have caused much grief throughout history. Like them you are blinded by hate and intolerance towards those who believe differently and have that same belief that your ideas are the only correct ones and should be forced on everyone. That all other beliefs must be destroyed for the good of humanity .That’s what makes reading your post about religion doing that very same thing ironic and sad.
ravensfan

ravensfan - Why do you always go off on personal attack rants when you cannot refute the rational argument? All you have to do is present us with your god creature and you can shut us all up, once and for all. Until such time, you are going to have to realize that those who argue the rational point of view have every right to express that opinion, no matter how offended you are by it.

Robert - What rational argument? You didn't make one. Make one and I'll be happy to try and refute it. All you did was reiterate your belief and attack mine and me. Hardly a rational argument?

ravensfan - Your beliefs themselves are an irrational collection of the unsupported myths and superstitions of your less than intellectual ancestors that have been dogmatized, institutionalized and mounded into a colossal pile of crap, that you have the temerity to call ultimate truth. The second anyone calls upon you to give positive affirmation of your assertions (which you cannot do), you claim that they are just attacking your religion and then fall into trying to denigrate their character. You try to equate the rationalists with the Taliban, now that takes cajones. The only difference between you and the Taliban is that we have a secular society that has made it illegal for your kind to kill us for blasphemy and heresy against your silly doctrine. What we have to do now is enforce that state of affairs in defense of the natural propensity of delusional supertitionists to re-establish the domination of any religion in any society. It is the only way we can be protected from your excesses and for you to be protected from the excesses of other religions.

Robert – My Taliban comment had to do with your admission that you wished to see religion eliminated basically by taxing it to oblivion even at the cost of helping the poor. You made no rational argument and still haven’t. Your argument is basically that I can’t prove I’m right therefore you’re right. As I’ve already pointed out numerous times and you continue to ignore that’s a logical fallacy. What really bothered you is you know I was right on with that Taliban comment. You want beliefs that don’t agree with yours eliminated basically by any means. You’ve said as much on numerous times already. By the way rationalism is nothing more than a collection of dogma itself institutionalized by people who foolishly believe themselves to be intellectual. You follow that dogma with as much zeal as any die hard conservative Christian or Muslim extremist. I’m not the one campaigning for the elimination of the beliefs of others you are so I’d say it’s the rest of us that need protection from your excessive desire to have your religion forced on us. Why don’t we just stick with what the founding fathers wanted and let everyone practice their own religion or lack of it without government interference.

ravensfan - I want stupid things eliminated from the human experience, like plague and pestilence, war, greed on a monstrous scale , bigotry, hatred, light beer, Pop-Tarts and Religion. You can, and I'm sure will, continue to dredge up all the 'good' done by your superstitious institutions in the name of your vain, vindictive god (who damns you to an eternity of fire if you do not worship it in a proscribed manner), but as far as covering all the damage done in the name of your gods and the promised suffering the over-breeding policies of your (and several other) religions are trying to guarantee Humanity, I find religion to be every bit as evil as any infective seducer, no matter how much pleasure it gives the individual in return. I have no religion, no gods to defend or justify, no illusions about our finality after death and no patience for people still living in the Dark Ages of superstition and delusion, especially when they have a vested interest to seeing the world come to an end. Religion is rubbish and by the stench, it is long past when it should have been tossed out.

Robert – What you can’t seem to accept is your views about religion are an opinion not a fact. In reality you advocate doing exactly the same thing you have accused religion of doing forcing your beliefs, or lack of them if you prefer, on others who don’t agree with them. It’s thinking as yours that creates war pestilence and plague. I’m not going to point out the obvious to you since you are far too close minded to look honestly and openly at the subject of religion. By the way you do have a religion it’s your rationalist nonsense you spew over and over again. You’ve simply substituted man for God. You also still spout that world ending nonsense as if that is some sort of goal of religion. I’m not really sure which is more lacking in intelligence that or your breeding nonsense. Tell me is that a personal opinion or are all rationalists as intolerant and ill informed?
ravensfan

ravensfan - I know, from experience with Catholic friends, that the religion you subscribe to does not encourage the individual to form any opinions about religious teachings without the guidance of your semi-celibate priest-hood. Many of them buy into the ritual and pay homage to being 'religiously correct' by marching off to the confessional any time they experience doubt (to be corrected, I'm sure) and repeat church dogma back, just like you do. I am then, not surprised that you are not familiar with the last chapter of your buy-bull that calls for and which is a highly anticipated event being gleefully hope for by many of the faithful, THE END OF THE WORLD. Sorry, but you are stuck with that bit of nonsense and cannot lay it back on people who point it out.

Finally, The population of the world has been estimated to have been around 250 million at the time of your supposed Christ (god/Human hybrid) and took until 1850 to quadruple to 1 billion, the next billion was added by 1920, the next billion by 1950 (despite the carnage of WWII), and went from 3 billion then to almost 7 billion today. It is estimated that we will add another billion every 7-8 years. It you cannot understand the implication of these numbers and their affect on the totality of the quality of Human life on this planet, then you are either mentally deficient (which I doubt) or just plain stupid.

Robert – So a few Catholic friends makes you knowledgeable on Catholic teaching. A lot of Catholics, unfortunately, aren’t even properly aware of them so you’ll forgive me if I question your experience. I’m not going to correct your errors on Catholic teaching. Regardless of what I say or what evidence I present you would hold onto the nonsense you’ve spouted off here on countless occasions. I will ask you to give me more detail on your claim that I’m supposed to gleefully look forward to the end of the world. I glanced at Revelations last chapter and didn’t see it. Maybe I missed it or it’s somewhere else. Of course looking forward to and causing is different and you have accused religion of the second one.

I understand the problems facing the world. What I questioned was the accuracy of a figure you used and pointed out that activist and scientific groups make rash and unsubstantiated statements sometimes. The figures I saw from the UN from 2004 I believe show by 2150 there will be 9.7 billion. I’m sure there are new figures out, but those were the last I saw. The vast majority of that growth coming from Asia and Africa. The fastest growing beliefs are Islam and I believe secularism/irreligious/agnostic/atheism. Maybe it’s you guys on the breeding program. Weren’t you the one who accused me of denigrate character when I couldn’t give positive affirmation of your assertions. Forgive me but your last post sounds like one doing just that to me.
ravensfan

"I want stupid things eliminated from the human experience, like plague and pestilence, war, greed on a monstrous scale , bigotry, hatred, light beer, Pop-Tarts and Religion."
- Robert Littel

Its's easy really!

Plague - Reactive measures I'm sure will come along way in the future through science and tech. Other then that, a change of heart from the masses, prayer and good works.

Pestilence - Advances in science and tech and an absence of corporate/government greed. Accomplished through a change of heart and focus on cost effective treatment methods which are affordable for all (make it available for all, without government or corporate interests put first) . Religion tells us to "love one another". This could go a long way.

War - "Love one another as I have loved you..." Once you get rid of God (and teachings), you are your own God; this leads to everything mentioned below including war "in the name of God".

Greed - Capitalism abused. So lets try to un-abuse it. How? "Love one another as I have love you..." These words can go along way when you give them a chance. Less "ME" more "OTHERS" which leads to fairness and prosperity.

Bigotry - Let's all open a book for a change. Let's UNDERSTAND one another. And for gosh sakes....look at it like "THE GLASS IS HALF FULL" we don't need anymore depression at this BBQ! we are all invited to have a good time and learn.

Hatred - A bi-product of all of the aforementioned. This will disappear when we have a change of heart. Prayer helps.
Light Beer - Sorry, have to have the cake and eat it too. We don't want to go to the gym after Saturday night.

Pop-Tarts - The cause of strife and hardship. Write to our congressmen.

Religion - Sorry, can't see this ever becoming irrelevant. The day this goes, the day the world as we know it goes. I could give many and different ways this would lead to our demise but "the glass is still half full" right Robert? Don't want to bring us down any further. Let's cheer up a little. Religion, after-all, gives hope for justice and all things good and beautiful. If we were all atheists, quite simply, it would be a pretty sad, selfish, prideful, bigot-ridden, war-torn and depressing existence. With pop-tarts and light beer to boot!!
So Robert, put on some Mozart, get into your bath-robe, pour yourself some green tea (rich in anti-oxidants and good for your mental focus), stride across your front foyer, open wide the Gothic doors of your fortress, and step out to breath the exhilarating fresh Baltimorian air; Smile, and say "God, isn't it great to be alive?"
I'm praying (rooting) for you buddy!