Any priest who says that they are a practicing homosexual should be ousted if they arent making an attempt to avoid that lifestyle. Saving the church is more important than the rights of homosexuals.

Clay - I believe Priests who would admit to not being celibate, heterosexual or homosexual would be offered guidance, but they would have to choose and if they are not capable of following the vow of celibacy they would have to leave the priesthood. That being said the Church is strongly opposed to homosexual acts. All this group will accomplish is forcing priest out it won’t change Catholic position on homosexuality.

Throughout the entire history of the Catholic Church, the priesthood has been a refuge for homosexuals, who if exposed in open society, were subject to death penalties in many cultures and under a plethora of political systems. Within the cloistered existence private acts between same sex clergy could occur and because such actions were not public, the priest (and Nuns, so involved with other Nuns) could hide their proclivities by not having to justify not being attracted to the opposite sex. The measure of respectability gained as a valued member of the community , was also an incentive that made the priesthood attractive. Although discouraged publicly, homosexuality in the Church was tolerated because it provided the numbers that the church needed to carry out its functions. I think the backlash today, has more to do with the loss of those who previously gravitated toward service to the Church because society has become far more tolerant of the gay lifestyle, making the priesthood less attractive, or necessary. This tolerance is one of the reasons why the Church can't fill the need for priests to keep all their churches open and their resentment is starting to show up as a backlash against the gay community that supported them for so long, out of necessity.

Without the gays the Catholic Church would have collapsed a long time ago--gays have been running this church and now the Catholic Church stabs them in the back. No different from Larry Craig, the anti-gay legislator, tap tap tapping away in a bathroom stall for a policeman hunk to come and get him. This church is a treacherous operation. At the current time only asexual amoebae belong in this church's hierarchy and even they multiply by mitosis which the Church won't allow.
Bravo for this site. When the gay priests are forced out there will be nothing left of this church--only old men--asexual shriveled amoebae with uterus envy will remain. Of course there is much abuse of gay children by this church and by folks like Clay. There is finger pointing, declarations that sinning gays have to be redeemed, that being gay is a sickness or an affliction that can be cured by joining the church, much fear mongering with the express purpose of getting single gay men to sacrifice themselves to the church hierarchy--a power grab by aging degenerate bishops who have had their clandestine fill of the very sex they condemn but now see it fit to exercise the tyranny of sexual judgment over the young and the confused. And Ravensfan you say something smug and neutral like, "This group may out the gay priests but the church will never condone homosexuality"? Are we supposed to applaud you for your balanced statement? Don't state the obvious Ravensfan. This church also thought the Earth was flat and the sun revolved around the Earth. It had to change for its own survival-- It will change about homosexuality too when its neck is on the chopping black-- no Florence Nightingale this church--when the gallows beckon it will rise up and hug the gays, ordaining them so someone will say Latin mass, shake the censer and rattle the rafters with prayers for the sinners.
tavensfan Anon

Paul writes in the bible about remaining unmarried if we can to better serve the Lord and I certainly understand that position. However, I wish the church would allow priests to marry. I think it would open up the church more and increase the membership.

Two things:

1) This website would be a good idea if it didn't smack so much of secret police tactics like trying to turn every parishoner into an informant. Priests who violate their vows should not be permitted to continue in that lifestyle. One or the other - the sexual activity (of any stripe) or the clerical apostolate - has to stop.

2) Robert and Anonymous clearly don't know their history or the Church. Historical revisionism doesn't help anyone, least of all the person who uses it. The Church is responsible for limited government), genetics, the university system, hospitals, international law, the concept of human rights, astronomy, and the agricultural revolution, to name a few of its innumerable impacts on modern life.

Gays, like other people, have always been a part of the Church. But if they are the ones responsible for upholding the priesthood, why is it that liberal parishes that support gay priests are suffering from denuded seminaries and a gentrifying priesthood while conservative parishes that espouse traditional Church teaching are enjoying ever-greater numbers of priests and seminarians?

Ravensfan Anon--not Tavensfan Anon--I am sticking with you Ravensfan--much to your annoyance, I bet, because you don't want your Catholic self mixed up with a heretic.
Ravensfan Anon

I support this action by homosexual activists. If the Church considers homosexuality immoral, how can it tolerate it in the clergy?
Too bad we had to wait for this; the Church should have taken this action 25 years ago when gays deliberately infiltrated the ranks of the clergy.

Anon - I'm assuming both posts are yours. I have a question for you. If a website was set up by someone exposing homosexuals in any other occupation you’d be one of the first ones screaming about rights violations I’ll bet. If it was a religious group doing it you’d probably stroke out over it. So excuse me if I find your cheering on this website as hypocritical on your part. In order to protect homosexuals you are going to harm individuals. Doesn’t that strike you as rather going against the concept of protecting individual rights? I guess you figure the end justifies the means. Who are you really hurting the Church as a whole or individuals. Add to that the fact that anyone could say anything about anybody and it compounds the malice of intent. Anon for someone whose writing style indicates intelligence you can say some rather dumb things sometimes. To compare the earth being flat to homosexuality which is condemned in the bible shows how your obsessive hatred of the Church clouds your objectivity at times.

One more thing my friend, there is nothing you could possibly do to annoy me.

ravensfan

"This hypocrisy must end."

I could not agree more. Priests who are sexually active need to stop disobeying their vows.

This action may have quite the opposite affect that homosexual lobby is hoping it will - by embarrassment they hope to silence Bishop Wuerl (and de facto all the bishops in the U.S.).

It won't happen. If any priests are 'outed' deliberately or inadvertently - whether engaging in relationships in which sodomy, fornication or adultery are part - this will cause the Bishop to address the matter as a shepherd should - pastorally , but it will not silence the message or stop the messenger.

Indeed I believe it will cause out an pouring of fidelity to the Truth which is Jesus Christ as has not been seen for a long time in this Nation.

The homosexual lobby, thus, is doing
Catholic Christians a real favor for this is persecution - and Christians always flourish under persecution.

So, here's my thanks to these men and women for their website - your action may well shake many Catholics out of their complacence and reverie and will cause many, many of them to stand up and be counted - probably for the first time since they became adopted children of God when they were baptized.

Not being afraid to speak out and say the truth never hurts any church in the long run. Going through a routine as a Christian and being complacent are much more harmful. We need to be outspoken in a loving way.

I want to give everyone hope! I have received and so have you, the best thanksgiving gift possible! There are some Bishops and Religious leaders in America who have beckoned a “Christian Revolution”. Archbishops Chaput, Dolan, Meyers, Cardinal Rigali, Bishop Malone are just some of the Catholic signers. It was drafted by Robert George(Catholic) and other Christians from the orthodox, Evangelical community.. It is ecumenical. It is called the “Manhattan Declaration.” It became public on November 20th. Our Shepherds are finally crying out, in the Northeast, for us the flock to be active in defending life, religious freedom and family! In one day it has received over 100,000 more signatures. This declaration is fabulous. It is a Christian Tea Party with our Leaders leading!

Go to www.manhattandeclaration.org Sign it. It has been backlogged. So many signing. Send each cardinal, archbishop, bishop an e-mail thanking them for their courage and bravery in defending the faith! Praise God our Church is alive with leaders who truly care!

Unfortunately we have more of the scandal to deal with….there will be forced outings….enough…God is a merciful God! If these Bishops and priest repent and if we repent and follow “the Way” with courage behind our courageous shepherds, nothing can stop us!

The New Evangelization has begun in the NorthEast! It requires much conversion and forgiveness.

John Paul the Great, pray for us!

Listen Ravensfan, the Catholic Church incarcerates the gays--this site gives a chance for liberation. Will individuals be hurt Ravensfan? They are hurt already by being shackled and stuffed in closets. It sounds like Pattycakes is the Anonymous who has enumerated the accomplishments of the Catholic Church and then thrown down the gauntlet, asking how come the conservative and traditional churches have seen an increase in seminarians and priests if the Catholic Church's stance on homosexuality is so repugnant? The church is still a place to go for religious gays but what would they rather be, openly gay or scared and ashamed because they stand condemned by the Bible thumpers and the hypocrites? May be the doubtful, fearful and terrified gays are the ones who are enrolling in the traditional seminaries hoping to atone for their so called "sins". By getting into the sex life of people, with its unnatural proscriptions, the Catholic Church sows nothing but grief in many perfectly wonderful gay and heterosexual seminarians to whom sex is no sin and celibacy is no virtue. From these blogs I conclude that the Catholic Church is great at Talibanizing its congregation--look at Agellius and Helen--I can see them with truncheons in their hands roving around to strike down "moral perversions". Ravensfan for an intelligent man, I repeat, you astound me with all your tripe about this church. Pattycakes come out of your closet--you are so distinctly you, you couldn't hide behind Anon.
Ravensfan Anon

Homosexual acts aren't even sexual. Sexual acts involve the two sexes. The church has paid a great price with the sex scandals since opening the seminaries to homosexually attracted candidtates. Almost 90% of the abuse was homosexual predation on teen-aged boys. To accept homosexual acts as good or normative or deserving of social support in any manner is to ignore human nature and the sad afflictions that homosexually attracted persons are presented with. It must be a very difficult circumstance to be in and one that calls for a lot of compassion, but like any other disordered inclination, the real good of the individual and community are paramount. It is not bigoted or 'hate-filled' as one hears so tiresomely , to point out the obvious reality that we are not designed for certain acts and will pay a steep price if we ignore the most basic facts.

What a wonderful web site! I love it when groups who make a living out of telling others how to live are exposed for who and what they are. My favorite web site of all is www.republicansexoffenders.com/. On that site you can read about the thousands of Republicans, champions of "Family Values", who have led doubles lifes. It is very entertaining.

P Boire,
You should be called Pbore--we are not designed for certain acts thou sayest. Golly--our design includes hormonal and genetic brain imprints even before birth--we are still unraveling what bisphenol A and other such weak estrogenic compounds are doing to estrogenize male brains--potent are the effects of prenatal exposure to environmental pollutants--female brains can also be androgenized--you obviously have no exposure to endocrinological literature on the subject of prenatal sexualization of the brain. You are not a doctor--you couldn't be. You are preposterous apotheosis of ignorance when you write about design without saying a thing about the brain--the brain is where sex truly resides--that's where fantasies exist--from potency to libido--that is where everything happens--not in the holes with which your mind seems so preoccupied and with which your design theory seems to begin and end.
Ravensfan Anon

Homos need to be purged from the ranks of the Church. They reject the Church's teachings on morality, and they were the cause of the sex abuse crisis, what with 90% of the victims of the male priests being male. NO MORE HOMO PRIESTS.

Anon – That has to be one of the dumbest things I’ve heard an intelligent person say. In order to liberate gays we are going to hurt gays and blame it on the Church. What you and other supporters of lifestyle want is to force your own misguided views on those who view the lifestyle as sinful. It’s the same backwards logic the misguided people in the Church used in the dark ages. Equal rights aren’t good enough you need it viewed as normal, and natural by all. In order accomplish that you really don’t care who gets hurt. It could even be someone who is gay themselves or perhaps even someone who isn’t but could get labeled as such. The Church requires gays to be treated with dignity and respect. That’s more than I see from many gay rights supporters, who try and justify their own bigotry and hate of the church as somehow self-righteous as you are doing now. Your little accounts of the “doubtful, fearful and terrified gays” and is one of the least intelligent things I’ve heard. Since celibacy is required of all who enter homosexuals the priesthood, heterosexual as well homosexual, your comment regarding celibacy being no virtue is ridiculous. I’m sure you’ll try and link the sex abuse problem to it. Before you do consider this if those men were as you said a “perfectly wonderful gay and heterosexual seminarians” they wouldn’t have resorted to pedophilia. In the end Anon you are what you accuse the Church of being and are simply far too blind with hate and contempt to see it. Maybe that it’s you trapped in that “web of lies” you spoke of on elsewhere.

Its never a matter of hate when we attempt to obey God's word. If homosexual priests cant obey that word then I agree with Jon. Let them step down. It is very simple. Anything else is satanic rhetoric. Thanks.

Clay - Any priest heterosexual or homosexual who can't keep his vows should step down. The problem with Jon's post is the manner in which he makes it is disrespectful and with contempt which is a sign of hate.

No more homosexual priests means no more homosexual priests. You dont know that he was being hateful. Thanks.

Clay - The term homo's is not one of caring concern. I also see no mention of trying to help them just kick them to the curb. It also ignores that the celibacy rules apply to heterosexual priests as well. Finally the all caps at the end is not a polite or respectful way to post. Based on the way the post was made it’s gives the appearance of being hateful. Maybe that wasn’t the intent, but it does come off that way.

I'll bet that Clay is so homophobic that he won't even drink Homo-Milk. Religious bigotry, thy name is Clay.

Anonymous,
The church has attracted pedophiles, both hetero and homosexual ones. But there are a lot of homosexuals in the church who are not pedophiles unless of course you think that pedophilia in the church is purely a homosexual problem or that all homosexuals in the church are pedophiles. The Catholic church suffers from an inexplicable hang up about sex and this has caused the church much grief. Sex, a natural function, has been converted into an impurity for seminarians. Celibacy is simply a facade that covers the unseemliness underneath--and that isn't just a problem for homosexuals, it is a problem across the board. From time immemorial priests have had affairs with women of the laity and fathered illegitimate children. Churches across Europe are paying for the sins of their wayward heterosexual priests with child support and pay offs to affected women. If the church had less archaic notions about human sexuality it would save itself a whole lot of headaches. Your perception of yourself is pretty bloated Anonymous--undeservingly so, I might add. My opinion stands--the church's attitude toward homosexuality stinks. This is a zero sum losing game for the church. Time is on the side of the homosexuals. All things change Anonymous. The Catholic church too shall meet its Waterloo on the subject of homosexuality--the day is not far off for this event to come to pass.
Ravensfan Anon
Ravensfan Anon

In my last post, I meant to say--"This is NOT a zero sum game and it is a losing game for the Church".
Ravensfan Anon

Ravensfan Anon - How interesting you call sex a natural function. The Catholic Church has the exact same view. Seeing as the only natural function of sex is reproduction and two of the same gender can't accomplish that it supports the position of the Catholic Church in regards to homosexual acts. You are the one with the hang up. You don’t agree with the Catholic Church and you want you view of what normal is forced on it. To support it you offer generalizations of past sins committed by members of the Catholic Church. Just as I said you would, you should concern yourself with your own over inflated view of yourself. I will make one revision based on your response. You aren’t interested as much in securing rights for gays as you are slamming the Catholic Church. That’s why you don’t care about someone’s life getting ruined in order to try and hurt the Catholic Church. I don’t know why you have it in for the Catholic Church and it’s none of my business but you sound like an angry former Catholic.

Anon,
The only natural function of the sex act being reproduction is not relevant to an evolved world where the population is overflowing and resources as shrinking--nature has way of protecting herself--she struggles to survive and homosexuals who do not reproduce contribute their share to this survival by not reproducing and you are absolutely idiotic to declare all homosexuals unnatural in their sex act because it does not lead to replication. --anonymous, a lot of heterosexuals have sex and do not reproduce every time they do it, there are some who never have children after being married for years because they can't, there are others who choose never to have children--would you call all of their sexual activity unnatural--I know, I know--only that which can never produce babies is unnatural-- that which can but lies dormant is not unnatural or some such rubbish is what you will come up with as argument in your favor. Perhaps I want to slam the Catholic Church and also want to support gay rights--the 2 are not mutually exclusive Anonymous. In matter of fact what I am most interested in is countering the type of idiocy you spout.
Ravensfan Anon

Ravensfan Anon - Sorry the truth about homosexual acts isn’t what you wanted to hear. That doesn’t make irrelevant. Name calling doesn’t make your point any more valid either. I guess since you could support your flawed view all you could do was dismiss mine and use insults. Your response is filled with logical fallacies. You simply looking for a way to justify doing what you know is wrong. There is nothing unnatural about choosing not to have kids. What’s unnatural is engaging in an act designed for reproduction with two of the same gender. You can rationalize anyway you want and it’s still unnatural. The fact that the world is overpopulated doesn’t justify homosexual acts. Unless of course you believe two wrongs make a right somehow. Maybe you want to do both, but it’s pretty obvious you seem to have an axe to grind with the Catholic Church. So far the only one spouting idiocy is you and you do it quite well.

Anonymous first you say the unnaturalness of the act is based on the fact it is antithetical to human propagation which is the prime biological reason for the sex --then when I point out that lots of heteros have sex without reproducing and ask you if you would consign every act of sex that does not result in propagation of the species a perverted act, then you say the unnaturalness springs only from two of the same gender indulging in the sex act--you are a man vacillating in position on this issue--to you homosexuality is anathema--homophobia is a sanctimonious badge for some--you wear it proudly Anonymous--you need to grow in wisdom. Perhaps you'll take another birth and come back a little bit more tolerant. As long as the Catholic Church hounds people with its duplicitous pieties I'll hound it Anon. That's my prerogative.
Ravensafan Anon

Ravensafan Anon - The unnaturalness is based on the fact it could NEVER do it. Nothing vacillating in what I’ve said you want to think that because you can’t mount any rational argument. Homophobia implies fear. I don't fear homosexual acts or the people that engage in them I feel a deep sense of sadness for them and the fools like you who try and rationalize the behavior as normal. You really never answered my question on the Catholic Church so I take that as a yes. Hound whomever or whatever you want. Fools tend to make a lot of noise.

Trust me, Anonymous ... what I do in bed is damned normal. And, as for your "sadness" on my behalf ... I'll match it with disdain for your sanctimony and hypocracy.

BankStreet - If that were true you wouldn't be trying to justify it to me. Are yor sure your distain isn't for your hypocracy?

You talk in circles, Anonymous. I am merely responding to your post. You are the one who thinks homosexuality is "unnatural." I am just making the point that, while physical and emotional love between two men may not be natural to you, it is completely and entirely normal for me (and countless others). Your absolutism, couched in your most unwelcome "sadness" for what you see as my plight would be amusing, were it not for the fact that those who think like you hold such sway in the halls of power. Sometimes the majority, even when they quote scripture, is wrong. In closing, I make the point again: I am a very happy homosexual, only "justifying" my happiness to a deaf man -- futile though I know that endeavor to be. Have a nice life in your narrow view of Creation. I know I am enjoying what your god has given me.

You can make up a life if you want and pretend that God says it is ok to be homosexual but the fact is He doesnt. If God didnt want it in scripture it wouldnt be there. It is just like the Unitarian Universalist church or whatever. Pretend that we are ok because we were all created by God and we are all loved by God. Let women preach and look the other way when people who are gay preach. We can all sing and hold hands because it is all one world of people. Hogwash. If God didnt require certain standards for following Him He would have let us know about it. The scriptures are not to be taken lightly.

Welcome BankStreet to the blogs. It is precisely the Anonymouses and the Clays of this world who through their messages, are inadvertently responsible, for Christianity's rebirth in monster form in places like Uganda, which has legislation now in front of its parliament, to have the country's openly gay citizens executed. How can American Christianity have such a far reaching effect? American Christianity funds the churches of Africa with money and sends missionaries there for cross border ministrations. The next Pope, it is said, will come from Africa. American Christianity dishes out the gobbledygook that says --we condemn the sin and not the sinner. African Christianity, not hypocritical but literal goes one small step further, and says we condemn both-and the latter we condemn to death. Then American Christianity wrings its hands and distances itself from its own propaganda, Bi-Bull based as Robert Littel would say, as the Muslims do with their terrorists, American Christianity, creates these terrorists and divests itself of all responsibility for their creation. What's unnatural is you Anonymous, brooding over what sexual acts are to be condemned and what are pure enough to be acceptable. What is also prurient and repugnant is the Church's own preoccupation with sex--enough to spin off numerous edicts. By the way, since you are a hypocrite, learn to spell its other noun form correctly--hypocrisy.
Ravensfan Anon

Well satan, you will never convince me that I and other Christians are bad because of what someone in Africa whom you have influenced wants to do. You made your bed and so lie in it. I have my own place to sleep.

BankStreet – And I merely responded to yours. If you are happy with what your doing good for you that doesn’t make it right or natural. Pedophiles are happy having sex with kids and those who like sex with animals are happy doing that it doesn’t make them normal either. Most of the time those who argue against an absolute do it not because its untrue, but they don’t want to follow it so they rationalize why it isn’t to justify not following it. Much like a child argues with a parent when told something is wrong. I can’t stop you nor is it my wish to stop you or deny you any rights guaranteed all citizens so please don’t lump me with those who would do either. I simply don’t want to be forced to accept your behavior as normal. Thank you I am having and will have a nice life. I wish you the same.

Clay,
You are an ass.
Ravensfan Anon

Ravensfan Anon - How is calling something unnatural responsible for the un-Christian behavior in Africa specifically Uganda? Trying to use what’s going on there to justify an obviously unjustifiable position and attack Christianity simply shows your desperation. Calling the concept of condemning the sin and not the sinner hypocritical simply shows you lack forgiveness in your own heart. The only person dishing out gobbledygook as you so eloquently put it is you. The sad part is that there are probably quite a few others who buy that propaganda in your ranting. I find it quite sad that instead of mounting a defense of why your view is not unnatural you choose to attack Christianity and me personally. If it makes you feel better about your view to call me names rather than try and intelligently defend them it’s of no bother to me. I’ve been called worse things for my faith by better people than you.

Anonymous,
You are what they call obdurate. What is going on in Uganda is very relevant to the Talibanization of Christianity by people like you and Clay. Move on over to the blog about Uganda and read a guy who has a posting over there--an honest to goodness guy from around these parts, I am guessing, who muses seriously that death is just punishment for homosexuality and he quotes the Bible in his own support. You may disown the Ugandans for what they are doing but they are spurred on by the Bible as is the man on the Uganda blog by Matthew Hay Brown. As usual, like most literal Christians, you play the prima donna, Anonymous, bemoaning my approach to you as not so intelligent. As BankStreet put it, there is nothing unnatural about his act to him. People like you will always peregrinate from homosexuality to pedophilia Anonymous, as though the two should be classed together. That is a specious connection connived by the sanctimonious moral cops of Christianity. They demonize homosexuality by conflating it with bestiality and pedophilia--there are heterosexuals and homosexuals who are pedophiles--the heteros who are having sex au naturale as per you, some have tried sex with animals too. I am tired of you Anonymous--I have grown bored with your temperament and your cleaving to the Bi-Bull for your sustenance and your justification for bias. I believe it was Jesus who said, "Let those among you without sin cast the first stone"--you and Clay are a disgrace to the man-god you claim is your master.
Ravensfan Anon

Barrabas was supposed to be punished instead of Christ. Barrabas was guilty and yet because of the desire of the Priests and Scribes to maintain their importance they incited the people to yell for Barrabas. Barrabas is among us again in the perverted priests. Their scandalous and heinous behaviour has brought shame upon the Church. The Church is suffering because these shameful acts were not only perpetrated by some of her priests but they were covered up by the hierarchy to protect their interests. In their cover up the Bishops have freed Barrabas to not only continue to hurt children and individuals but to bring the shameful punishment upon the head of the Holy Church.
Diocese are being wrung of their resources. This is money that was given by the faithful who would never have tolerated these priest and now have to pick up the tab. Sure a Bishop or two will resign but what is this to the souls that were hurt, the millions of dollars lost.
Any priest who has committed a grievous act against their priesthood and their vocation must take the shame of their acts upon themselves and not continue to enjoy the freedom of Barrabas while the Holy Bride of Christ takes their shame upon herself. There is no place in the Priesthood for unchastity, especially the blasphemy of homosexuality and the satanic perversion of pedophilia.
TO ANY PRIEST GUILTY OF HOMOSEXUAL OR PEDOPHILIAC ACTS WHILE THEY WERE PRIESTS-- YOUR JUDGEMENT DAY WILL COME. DO YOU WISH TO ADD THE VIOLATING OF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST TO YOUR SINS. YOU HAVE SHAMED YOUR BROTHER PRIESTS. TAKE THE SHAME ON YOURSELVES, PUBLICLY REPENT AND RESIGN. THE CHURCH OF GOD HAS NO NEED OF YOU IN THE HOLY FUNCTION YOU HAVE DEFILED AND THE CATHOLIC FAITHFUL CAN NO LONGER TRUST YOU. DO PENANCE AND PRAY FOR FORGIVENESS.

Lay faithful. Encourage those who come forward with stories of abuse. There is nothing worse for the Church than to have one victim die without having their grievance publicly heard. Do you fear for the priesthood? The lack of vocations is because of priestly unfaithfulness, purify her and champions will take up the torch.