Sounds like satan's old hot air excuses to me. Why cant the church be allowed to have a larger well and septic system? The county doesnt seem to have problems allowing development that will generate tax dollars. Farms have been sold and houses have been built. I am not saying that the county has made no efforts to control development, we need to make efforts to control it. In all honesty, how many cows will not have a place to graze because of this church? It sounds like discrimination to me.

Clay - Isn’t it just as likely that the group tried to get away with the least expensive alternative on the well and septic system than an act by satan? It seems to me that’s an easy problem to fix resubmit with a better well and septic system. Of course the other question is does the congregation really need a 1,200-seat Global Mission Church, 60 meeting rooms and 500-seat dining hall?

Fact is, the attorney is calling the decision unreasonable. Can we assume that the proposed well and septic system followed existing county guidelines? If it didnt it probably wouldnt have been proposed. Another fact is that a commission member made a comment about restricting churches on ag land but not about restricting other activities on ag land. Still a third fact, and this is well known to Christians, is that the devil loves to stop Godly activities. Thanks.

Clay – Since the attorney represents the Church I would expect him to say that. When have you ever heard an attorney publicly say a client was in the wrong? Do you even know what the county guidelines are or how that compares to what was submitted? I suspect you don’t and are jumping to conclusions. The article said that the commission member said “the county should consider limiting the size and scope of places of worship on agricultural land.” No mention of not restricting anything else. Where did you get your information from? From what I can tell you don’t really have any facts. Might I suggest that you get some before commenting on this subject further.

Been working for the state in real estate for 30 years. If a builder doesnt make an effort to find out what the county requirements are before submitting plans, he is pretty much wasting someone's money. That doesnt encourage future business. Maybe if the commission member had mentioned limiting the growth of all activity on ag land, they wouldnt have been suspected of discrimination and would have been seen more as caring about the cows. Thanks for your comments.

The Gazette reports that church representatives said the facility would need septic capacity for 4,999 gallons per day, one gallon shy of the capacity that would have required an amendment to the county's water and sewer plan.

Also, their lawyer has repeatedly said this is not a "mega-church" but how many normal churches would need 67 meeting rooms, a 500-seat dining hall, and 397 parking spaces -- near scenic Sugarloaf Mountain.

And anyone who has been on Old Hundred Road knows it's no place for this kind of congestion.

There's nothing anti-God in telling them to find a more suitable location.

Thanks. I still dont see the need for the chairwoman's comment on places of worship. Where do you think a suitable place in Frederick County would be for such a church?

Clay...You are commenting on an issue that you apparently have no real information about. The church can't be allowed to have a larger well and septic system because residents will have to suffer the consequences if something happens to that oversized well and septic field if it fails. We live and raise our families in this area and we don't want it to become overgrown just like all the other areas that use to be farmland. At some point limits have to be placed on growth. FYI the land in question would only be permitted to have a maximum of 5 single family homes spread out on acreage which compares hugely to a Walmart size church that can accomodate maximum of 5800 people according to the square footage. I salute Frederick County and it's decision!!!

Hi Sandra. I simply asked the question "why cant this church be allowed to have a larger well and septic system?" If there are enough good reasons then so be it. No one likes cows more than myself, although they draw flies. I am just saying that I am against a church being treated differently than some builder who has enough money to fill pockets, which I see all the time. I mentioned possible discrimination. Where do you think the church should go and are you against having a smaller church there? Thanks.

I am against having any church anywhere--kill them all. There are way too many churches, temples and mosques in the world and way too many wars and miseries brought on the human kind by them. A mega church? What for? So more pastors and ministers can bat their eyelashes at the women congregants? Meeting rooms myriad! How does any church get this much money? 500 seat dining hall where the obese can pray to fatty foods and gorge on potluck dinners even as the pastor circulates, munching on cookies, expostulating about his latest pleas to Jesus for strength to stick to his diet? Give me a break! This monstrosity should be stopped--not for the cows or the bucolic setting, not for the residents in the neighborhood, but for Jesus in whose name it is being constructed. Did Jesus ask for more than sixty meeting rooms? Did Jesus want a mammoth dining hall? A septic system larger than a football field? What's the matter with the religious? All slaves to opulence and ostentation and Clay a Jesus man from la la land, disses the cows, to better understand the county's discrimination against this church? What's to understand Clay? This kind of church belongs in Las Vegas on the strip--one of the meeting rooms could become a poker parlor, another can be turned over to the gifted in black jack, and the rest can host slot machines. Ted Haggard, who is now an insurance man, can be forgiven and invited back to lead this church. He will deliver an impassioned sermon, pray to Jesus for good luck in his gambling ventures, and walk right out to the roulette tables. That's the only kind of image this church evokes. And you Clay a real estate man for the state take up for this church? Are you bored Clay? Have you been furloughed?
Ravensfan's Anon

It seems that you dont know much about the Korean/American community. Thanks.

Hi Clay....To answer your question..No I am not opposed to a small country church; however GMC doe not want a small church. They want, to quote their architects, "a campus" They want to grow and this size church is being constructed for the main purpose of accomadating this huge growth. My question is who will really be able to police this growth once the church have their foot in the door. Our fear is that it will get out of control. The church continues to say that they will only have a maximum of 1600 congregants weekly. Any intelligent, common sensed person realizes that you don't build a 138,000 sq ft building without the sole purpose of being able to at some point fill that building and have the parishioners grow. What happens to our community then? The traffic it will cause, the crossing over two streams and most importantly the septic issue. The church said "it will be an asset to our community, their neighbors". They will never be an asset if they continue to fight to construct this mammoth of a building. They are only alienating the community they say they will enrich. I say they should take all this money that is being spent on attorneys, experts, land (why 102 acres?) and use the money for causes that the community can really appreciate.

I don't know the Korean American community and the Korean American community doesn't know much about Jesus--that about sums it up. What do they want--put entire South Korea in there?
Ravensfan Anon

Clay - it sounds to me like there is the Planning Commisison is not treating the Church any differently. Sandra seems to know a great deal more on the issue than either of us. It sounds as though the Church should submit a smaller more realistic plan for the church. I struggle myself to see why the need buikd something as massive as they propose.

Hi Sandra. Maybe a smaller sized church can be worked out. I dont know how close the houses are around there. The septic usually isnt the issue with that many acres. It is usually the water that is more of a concern. With no town water people worry about wells drying up although we arent in a drought situation and havent been since 2002. And Anon, you are wrong about the Korean/American community not being on fire for Christ. Very wrong. If you think foreigners shouldnt be allowed in the country then support laws that restrict immigration. Dont tell those already here that they cant congregate to worship Christ.

They can congregate to worship Christ--but this is not about worshiping--this is something Christ will liken to Pharisee behavior. Why the ostentation? The fuss? The size of this place of worship is obscene and obtrusive. I don't mind the Korean American community or any other community being here but the building of this kind of church when there are so many people in need is outrageous. On fire for Christ? What sort of Christ? Christ of the 60 plus meeting rooms and and five star dining hall? Religion is no more than a waste of time and money and the Korean American community has reached the zenith of religious idiocy and degeneracy with this project which has got nothing to do with Christ--it has everything to do with the Korean American community squandering its wealth on religious megalomania with no concern whatsoever about running down a neighborhood with its fanaticism. Ah Clay, if a bedazzling, big mosque, or a spectacular Hindu temple were going up in the same place as the intended Korean jumbo church the uproar would have been deafening from the "Christ is the only Lord of the planet" folks. They would have been out there with pitchforks in hand to tar and feather the faithful from the other side of the aisle. That's why all this religious nonsense has to cease. Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Germans, French and English--wake up--is God dead? Most assuredly but postulating He is not, then for sure He is being killed by the avarice and ambition of the God believers.

You sound like you are arguing just to argue to me.

Arguing with the Jesus man just for the sake of argument? It is simply the truth Clay, if a jumbo mosque is to be built in the same site, and Matthew Hay Brown blogged about it, you will be the first one on the blog, with some reverential comment about the Lord Jesus and how America is sinning by allowing so many alien Gods to take root in the sacred soil that belongs to Christ, or something idiotic like that. You love the Koreans because they are on fire for the Lord. The Koreans were Buddhists and animists before they were "saved". If a Buddhist temple were to be built there with a mega septic tank dedicated to Lord Buddha you would be freaking out, that a heresy and a desecration has happened--you have been doing so about Obama's tolerance toward all religions and his refusal to kowtow to Christian extremists like yourself. You have not argued with me because you have no fresh defense for your religious bias and intolerance that masquerade as unconditional surrender to the only true Lord of the universe. And I am not arguing with you without adequate provocation or exposure to your train of thought. You have made it plenty clear on these blogs that yours is a mind made up- a mind closed- and your sympathy for the Koreans springs only from one well, that of a man who forgives them for being Korean because they are also Christian.
Ravensfan Anon

I wouldnt say a word about a mosque being built. Sounds like the guy below trying to make me look like a hate mongerer to me. I dont agree with these other religions on their basic beliefs, but why should I try to keep temples of other religions from being built? I am not even that crazy about the Mormon Temple off the D.C. beltway, and they are Christians. I dont like things to look too show-offy. Being a Christian means being humble. Having a large church on 125 acres in the woods (I assume) doesnt sound necessarily show-offy to me. It depends on what is built. If they have that many members then maybe they can fill up the space. I say that an agreement can be reached on a smaller church. Christians have been attacked in India and in the Mideast. I dont remember Christians attacking anyone because they are building something for another religion, and that includes verbal attacks. Thanks.

You neither follow the news nor history Clay. Christians if you remember went on the Crusades. Christians killed Jews aplenty during the Holocaust. In this very country there have been attacks against Hindu temples by Christian vandals and extremists. Jewish temples have been similarly vandalized. Your definition of show-offy is ludicrous. If a mammoth, money gobbling edifice hides behind a bunch of woods then regardless of the size or the bells and whistles you would say it is a humble abode. Of course you would also say "Hurray" when the Korean fill up the mega halls of their church with Christians. I am glad you declare you will not oppose a mosque on the grounds it desecrates American soil. Nevertheless you believe when Jesus returns, the Muslims, the Jews, the Hindus and the Buddhists will be consigned to hell with Lucifer. That my dear Clay, is the conviction of a Christian religious chauvinist.
Ravensfan Anon

No, it is just simply God's word. And if anyone who called themselves Christians persecuted anyone then they are being disobedient to that word. Thanks.

Anonymous - I never thought I'd see a post where Clay sounded more intelligent than you, or where I'd agree with him over you but with his last post it's happened. Now you sound every bit as delusional as Robert.

You have to remember that the guy below is always there to persuade people to go his way and to try to make Christians look bad. I make mistakes but I am not trying to make Christians look bad in any way or trying to undo God's work. Thanks.

Just a comment. This has NEVER been about the "WHO" wanted to develop on this land it's always been about the "WHAT" that was being proposed. It has NOTHING to do with it being a church or the ethnicity of the owners. The problem arose because a church bought residential intended land with certain restrictions and is trying to hide behind exceptions because it is a church. We have NEVER wanted ANY TYPE of large development in this area. The church it seems like is turning this into an issue about religious rights when that is not the case. Why have zoning regulations when someone can come in and walk all over those regulations that are made to protect. Let's not forget about all the hard working families that purchased the surrounding land with the idea that this was strictly a residential area...where are our rights?

What does it say in the regulations about sizes of churches and how large they can be? What does it say in the regulations about traffic? It would seem to me that something should be in writing to say that the county either has a right to ok it or a right to turn it down.

Clay -Stop making this out to be more than it is. The issue is the size not the purpose. It sounds from the post before yours that there is some opposition from the residents anyway. In any event the article says they have the right to appeal the decison to the county's zoning appeals board.

Thats what I said, about how large something is allowed to be. I would imagine that there is a difference allowed in sizes of churches and sizes of shopping centers, etc. All I was asking is what is written down.

GMC found a loophole in the residential regulations for this area. The loophole if I am correct allowed for a church. Definitely NOT a campus or a compound. The fact that this area is zoned residential would indicate that big developments are not wanted or permitted here. As I said before the maximum amount of Residential homes could be five. When GMC was looking into the zoning they clearly would have known what was wanted for this area, but instead they found this loophole and do not care what the residents and counties visions for this area are. I believe that GMC knew this project would not be accepted so they began to do things without trying to draw any attention to this project. In July during their hearing they were given 3 months continuance to fit their project into a scale that would be accepted by the community; however they did nothing. They DO NOT care about this community.

So if they dont fit their project into a scale accepted by the community then they wont be allowed to build the church. What would allow them to anyway?

Clay wouldn't it be up to them to find that out? Based on the article and what it sure looks like the GMC isn't looking for a compromise rather trying to make it into an issue. Why else would submit plans for a much bigger structure then you need and get lawyers that involved in the beginning. Maybe you should be asking them how much of an effort they’ve made to reach a compromise. It sounds like the residents don’t want it or any other large scale construction so why not respect their wishes. Has the GMC considered other locations or smaller plans?

My point is that nothing will allow them to so there seems to be a compromise that will be worked out one way or another.

Clay - I'm not sure what you are trying to say. I would say if the GMC is willing I'm sure a compromise can be worked out. The only thing that got rejected is the mammoth structure they want.
ravensfan