It's no wonder so many in 'the Clergy' are pussing to open our borders. It will doubtless fill the pews with countless easily manipulated immigrants, and the Church's coffer as well. As an added bonus, tax payers will pick up the tab for what was formerly the Church's 'mission' and 'outreach'. From an increasingly self serving Clergy perspective, with Church attendance in a state of free-fall decline, it makes perfect sense to burden tax payers, rather than the Church's take. Indeed, rather than 'minister where the need is greatest', in the native countries of these immigrants, most 'Clergy" would prefer to burden tax payers and American workers, and import their new "flock". That way they can minister to their needs in the 'air conditioned spendor' of their mansion Churches, and still make it home in time for supper, and a little golf on the weekeneds. What hypocrites!

Collection baskets lead to strange bedfellows.

Those who oppose the poor migrants Think Again, The Undocumented immigrants paying more taxes than you think!!

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/images/File/factcheck//EconomicsofCIRFullDoc.pdf

Eight million Undocumented immigrants pay Social Security, Medicare and income taxes. Denying public services to people who pay their taxes is an affront to America’s bedrock belief in fairness. But many “pull-up-the-drawbridge” politicians want to do just that when it comes to Undocumented immigrants.

The fact that Undocumented immigrants pay taxes at all will come as news to many Americans. A stunning two thirds of Undocumented immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes.

Yet, nativists like Congressman Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., have popularized the notion that illegal aliens are a colossal drain on the nation’s hospitals, schools and welfare programs — consuming services that they don’t pay for.

In reality, the 1996 welfare reform bill disqualified Undocumented immigrants from nearly all means tested government programs including food stamps, housing assistance, Medicaid and Medicare-funded hospitalization.

The only services that illegals can still get are emergency medical care and K-12 education. Nevertheless, Tancredo and his ilk pushed a bill through the House criminalizing all aid to illegal aliens — even private acts of charity by priests, nurses and social workers.

Potentially, any soup kitchen that offers so much as a free lunch to an illegal could face up to five years in prison and seizure of assets. The Senate bill that recently collapsed would have tempered these draconian measures against private aid.

But no one — Democrat or Republican — seems to oppose the idea of withholding public services. Earlier this year, Congress passed a law that requires everyone who gets Medicaid — the government-funded health care program for the poor — to offer proof of U.S. citizenship so we can avoid “theft of these benefits by illegal aliens,” as Rep. Charlie Norwood, R-Ga., puts it. But, immigrants aren’t flocking to the United States to mooch off the government.

According to a study by the Urban Institute, the 1996 welfare reform effort dramatically reduced the use of welfare by undocumented immigrant households, exactly as intended. And another vital thing happened in 1996: the Internal Revenue Service began issuing identification numbers to enable illegal immigrants who don’t have Social Security numbers to file taxes.

One might have imagined that those fearing deportation or confronting the prospect of paying for their safety net through their own meager wages would take a pass on the IRS’ scheme. Not so. Close to 8 million of the 12 million or so illegal aliens in the country today file personal income taxes using these numbers, contributing billions to federal coffers.

No doubt they hope that this will one day help them acquire legal status — a plaintive expression of their desire to play by the rules and come out of the shadows. What’s more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks.

Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they’ll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the “earnings suspense file” — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus.

The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year. Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children.

The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families — most of whom are illegal — are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume. Yes, many illegal migrants impose a strain on border communities on whose doorstep they first arrive, broke and unemployed.

To solve this problem equitably, these communities ought to receive the surplus taxes that federal government collects from immigrants. But the real reason border communities are strained is the lack of a guest worker program.

Such a program would match willing workers with willing employers in advance so that they wouldn’t be stuck for long periods where they disembark while searching for jobs. The cost of undocumented aliens is an issue that immigrant bashers have created to whip up indignation against people they don’t want here in the first place.

With the Senate having just returned from yet another vacation and promising to revisit the stalled immigration bill, politicians ought to set the record straight: Illegals are not milking the government. If anything, it is the other way around.

The Undocumented Immigrants pay the exact same amount of taxes like you and me when they buy Things, rent a house, fill up gas, drink a beer or wine, buy appliances, play the states lottery and mega millions . Below are the links to just a few sites that will show you exactly how much tax you or the Undocumented Immigrant pays , so you see they are NOT FREELOADERS, THEY PAY TAXES AND TOLLS Exactly the same as you, Now if you take out 10% from your states /city Budget what will your city/state look like financially ?

Stop your folly thinking , you are wise USE YOUR WISDOM to see the reality. They pay more taxes than you think, Including FEDERAL INCOME TAX using a ITN Number that is given to them by the IRS, Social Security Taxes and State taxes that are withheld form their paychecks automatically.

Taxes, paid by You & the Undocumented are the same in each state check your state : http://www.taxadmin(DOT)org/fta/rate/sales.html

GAS Taxes paid by you & the Undocumented are the same. Go to and check out your states tax; http://www.gaspricewatch(DOT)com/usgastaxes.asp

Cigarette Taxes paid by you & the Undocumented are the same, check this out in : http://www.taxadmin(DOT)org/fta/rate/cigarett.html

Clothing Sales Taxes, are the same paid by you & the Undocumented Immigrant; http://en.wikipedia(DOT)org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States

City Taxes, are the same paid by you or the Undocumented, since he pays rent and the LANDLORD pays the city : http://www.town-usa(DOTcom/statetax/statetaxlist.html

Beer Taxes, are the same paid by you or the Undocumented: http://www.taxadmin(DOT)org/fta/rate/beer.html

TAX DATA : http://www.taxfoundation(DOT)org/taxdata/show/245.html
, Think Again, The

Truth, yet all that isn't enough... is it?

We are paying for the sins of our fathers (and grandfathers) who didn't plug this hole in the wall when they were first aware of it and the solution was far more manageable.

In my case that first awareness was back to the mid 70's. When was it for you?

Dealing with the depth of saturation that the problem that has been allowed to grow to now leaves us with a choice of the highly impractical or the draconian or to tolerate the allowance of citizenship by extortion.

I don't care for any of those choices but I'll absolutely not tolerate being extorted.

As a young evangelical, I support this recent effort by the NAE (though am not associated with the organization).

In answer to those who cynically say that this will contribute to larger churches and higher giving, I completely disagree. I think the group is responding to what they believe is our responsibility as Christians, which we see over and over again throughout the Old and New Testament - having compassion on those living in poverty, being generous with the "much" that we have, caring for the "alien, the fatherless, and the widow" (though as Christians we continue to fall short in these areas). The God of the Bible judges harshly those who care only for themselves and their own interests, but demonstrates love toward those who try to bring about his justice on this earth.

Hopefully this group will take our charges of compassion and justice more seriously in other areas as well.

MrRational I couldn't have said it better myself. I believe you should send your comments to somewhere it really matters. You should post it to the Whitehouse Website everyday, on Twitter, Facebook and Youtube. We have to get the word out and let everyone know that our Immigrants are being used and abused, blaimed, over-charged, under-paid, dehumanized. They are supporting and contributing to our "United States System of Monetary Flow". I am an United States citizen born and raised here and I am for the Immigration reform! I can't believe people would allow and support such racist ideas.

Angel, when you and you cohorts start using the qualifying term of "illegal" before every reference to immigrant then we can engage in civil discussion and perhaps even an equitable resolution.

There is far too much tolerance that the predicate and deliberate illegality doesn't matter somehow. It does and always will.

Extortion and criminality is not equity.

The doors are covertly opening again to another illegal immigration invasion. We now discerned that religious organizations are trying to use their congregations as a fulcrum to apply president Obama's Immigration reform package. It's in my mind that just people of the Baptist faith like myself, who are ardent worshipers, but whoever live in the stark veracity of real-time. Many are aware of the dangers of leniency for lawbreakers, that will be even more magnified by not only those already here, but the destitute restless people waiting for the--AMNESTY--bell to clang? It’s utterly irrational to expect that millions more will not tear across our borders? Yes! They will greatly benefit, but what about the 15 million jobless Americans?

There is no possible way Citizens and legal residents can compete in this deep recession, against the poor of other countries? An avalanche of the young and old that will devour billions of more dollars from government handouts, to not only clothe, medicate, shelter and feed them, but the illegal laborers wages partly transferred abroad? Churchgoers may think they are doing god's work, but what they are actually doing is stealing the bread from American children's table, low income families lifeline of paying for gas to get them to work, pay for an apartment? The magnet of course is the inevitable abhorrent businesses, who will solicit for minimum wage illegal aliens to build on their profits. THIS IS WHY WE MUST DEMAND NATIONWIDE E-VERIFY! A COMMITMENT FROM THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO MAKE IT MANDATORY FOR EVERYONE WHO HAS A JOB, TO BE VETTED. THAT NOBODY SHOULD BE EXEMPT. PENALTIES FOR NOT UTILIZING E-VERIFY, SHOULD BE EXEMPLARY? WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AMERICAN LIVES IN TURMOIL, BECAUSE JOBS ARE BEING STOLEN BY ILLEGAL WORKERS.Its operation will draw to the surface illegal labor who should not be here. We should inform ICE of anybody hiring illegal immigrants or you have suspicion of underpaid workers. My church pastor on the outskirts of Indianapolis has been playing on the congregation’s sensitivities, but the good man was unable to answer the torrent of questions?

Least of all myself, who explained how the Council of Foreign Relations has been planning for years, to incorporate Mexico and Canada with ourselves, to import an unceasing flow of cheap labor? Or that the ACLU was founded by a communist or that groups like the Southern Poverty league was substantially financed by the business community, to undermine the reputations of anti-illegal immigrant groups. That even the radical ethnic caucuses such as La Raza was furnished by grants from our own government or corporate concerns. That in actual fact--WE--are paying the price tag as taxpayers for our own downfall? Unless a large majority of the population yells down the phone-lines at 202-224-3121 this nation will become a balkanized society?

This country was built on the strength of one language, one Judeo-Christian culture. Multicultural societies usually collapse, as in the Middle East. Even in the developed countries of Europe, their is a tenuous unsettled calm that will erupt finally over both legal and illegal immigration. Even America cannot support millions more people in their vehicles on eroding highways and surface streets. Our infrastructure has been blatantly ignored for years, bridges in urgent disrepair. We remain mostly alone in fighting foreign wars and other countries are telling us, that the dollar is unlikely to be the main trading currency. Then we have programmed political idiots we elected telling us, we need to pass a path to citizenship for the 20 million plus unfortunate peasant who illegally crossed our border.

WHERE IS THE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS COMING FROM TO SUPPORT THE POOR PEOPLE OF THE WORLD? THE TAXPAYERS POCKET OF COURSE? My faith is very important to me, but that doesn't mean I'm going to commit financial suicide. Let these illegal aliens get there own governments in order, and not take from us? The Urgent truth can be found at NUMBERSUSA. Read about the corruption in Washington at JUDICIAL WATCH. CAPSWEB for the truth about OVERPOPULATION. BE REST ASSURED THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE EXPECTED TO BE GUARDIANS OF ALL AMERICANS, ARE IN ACTUAL FACT THE PUPPETS OF THE BUSINESS CONSORTIUM'S AND SPECIAL INTEREST LOBBYISTS.

Brittanicus we know that you are a MINUTEMAN and all you do is sit and post LIES.
why don't you post that the UNDOCUMENTED APY TEH SAME TAXES AS YOU AND ME??AS I WROTE IN TEH ARTICLE ABOVE.
YOU ARE LYING AND NO ONE BELIEVES A LIAR. GET A LIFE YOU PATHETIC HUMAN.

MrRational's excellent analysis of all the taxes paid by anyone working here is a long over due! Thanks you! Of course, there will be someone who flip flops back to the small underground workforce paid under the table - but then that flies in the face of their argument about how immigrants have stolen the "good jobs" and filling the union payrolls. So they can't have it both ways.

Brittanicus will show up on every blog with cut&paste from the FAIR website. But no one ever calls out FIAR and NUMBERS USA for their founders association with longstanding eugenics agenda. So poor shortsighted conservatives who wave an anti-abortion sign with one hand and an anti-immigration sign in the other really are confused when they are relying on Dr. Tanton's web site data as back-up for their position.

Please follow Mr. Rational's advice. Think for yourselves. Check out the facts.

Beth, you have seriously mistaken my commentary and given me credit for a screed I didn't write.

Is this a new tactic? Like the other left handed compliment by Angel to misrepresent your coherent opposition?

In most corners I am thought to be a bleeding heart liberal but not on this topic. One more time for the deliberately obtuse: The issue is NOT immigration; which everyone supports especially the legitimate immigrants who have followed the laws through the visa process.

The issue is criminality and now extortion with the aid of well meaning but misguided church people. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Sarah, you aren't motivated by Christian concern for the poor, rather, you're motivated by the same interests that those who rationalized slavery were, greed, and selfishness. Those like you ignore the poor American citizens you help displace by rationalizing their displacement by illegals. Since January of this year, more than 1 million more American citizen children have been made homeless, when their parents lost their jobs and were unable to find another. You have the blood of innocent American citizens on your hands, you are guilty of the economic genocide being perpetuated against those American citizens. Christ would not support your hurting innocent American citizens, and claiming you're trying to help the poor from other countries, he would call you a hypocrite.

If illegal immigrants are "paying into Social Security" they must have committed identity theft, which is a felony. The same holds true for income taxes. BTW, the statistics are that 60% of illegal migrants are not paying income tax.

Helping an illegal migrant to get a job, encouraging them to stay illegally in the United States, etc. are federal felonies.

These are serious issues. I find it very troubling that Church leaders are advocating lawlessness, ignoring the high unemployment of their fellow US citizens by advocating illegal migration, and ignoring the suppression of wages caused by illegal migrants. Furthermore, I find it troubling that Church leaders are supporting the exploitation of illegal migrants, since their employers are not paying legal wages, not paying unemployment insurance, not following OSHA safety regulations, and many more criminal activities. Why would Church leaders ignore the crimes of illegal migrants and the crimes of those that employ them?