Scientology has always put a huge amount of effort into propaganda and blatant lies. For example, when Lisa M. was dying, and restrained in the basement of the Ft. Harrison, Scientology claimed she was there of her own free will for "rest and relaxation." That type of lie infuriates the public, who read about it.

And then there's the way they absurdly inflate their numbers, and success stories, like the accomplishments of their vulture ministers. That kind of thing is insulting to volunteer workers everywhere.

As far as I'm concerned, all their ads are laden with irony and lies. While there's an irony of placing their ad in the same paper that exposes them as a criminal organization, I don't see anything unusual in it for Scientology.

They are trying to recapture their mystery, through advertising. They don't realize, how little of their mystery remains.

For 60 years, they've been doing rotten things to too many members, many critics, and perpetrating a multi-layered fraud on the public. They were successful at it by flying under the radar, snagging the small percentage of people who were vulnerable to Scientology and milking them for all they were worth.

They were successful at lying about how they were going to change, and that the rotten apples were sorted out.

Scientology's history and current practices, combined with the internet have reached a critical mass. The growing number of ex-members who are willing to speak out is insurmountable. The internet provided the forum for people, including ex-members, who were voiceless or harshly suppressed before.

You can't paste an ad over the truth, but it won't stop them from trying.

For example, Scientology can't convince people that they are open to people who want to practice their own faith, when their secret doctrines teach that all other religions are false "implants."

Scientology can no longer have it both ways, claiming they are about helping, while slyly hypnotizing people into financial ruin.

We are living in an information age, and the evidence against Scientology is overwhelmingly damning.

Scientology believes that its money and square footage, combined with its propaganda machine and followers who are trained to lie and attack, will overcome all obstacles.

Their team of lawyers and all the PI's they hire for their dirty work, that have intimidated critics (what Hubbard called in a BBC TV interview "the lunatic fringe,") now have a collective power that Scientology cannot overcome.

Scientology has a problem internally and externally. They can't keep their own members away from information forever.

And, they can't keep the "raw meat" (perspective members,) from taking a gander at the other side of Scientology, even if they have an ad flashing at them.

People have a new urge to look for themselves before jumping into Scientology, just as they would when considering a purchase of an MP3 player.

And many people have a small voice in their head that says:

"Isn't that Tom Cruise guy kind of nuts...what is up with that?"

What's behind the barrage of media slams at Scientology?

Money.

The problem solving methods developed of L Ron Hubbard are CORRECTLY perceived as direct threats to the $2 Trillion a year (world wide cash flow) of the psych/drug industries.

With the new database at http://www.cchrint.org, there is now confirmed government collected reports of thousands of suicides, murders and birth defects caused by psych drugs.

Scientology is composed of 5,000 publications and 3,274 lectures by L Ron Hubbard.

It's a huge subject, that has its component parts individual "how-to" methods that enable any person to more easily understand and resolve problems.

Anyone can go to http://www.ScientologyHandbook.org and select one of the 16 how-to problem solving chapters to quickly find out if it is helpful.

Now with the just released Dianetics DVD (2 discs, 4.25 hours / $20) anyone can learn the step-by-step procedure and discover how to reduce persisting unwanted conditions (not caused by undiagnosed medical condition, such as the mood swings with untreated diabetes).

http://www.ABLE.org summarizes key societal problems solving turn-key methods that are acknowledged by leading political, social and religous leaders (all NON-Scientolgist) as the most effective programs to help improve lives.

"What's behind the barrage of media slams at Scientology?

Money."

Yes, the reason why David Miscavige, the leader of Scientology, is a barbaric maniac that beats staff members in bizarre outbursts of violence is because the shrinks made him do it.

Self help you say? More like self-destruction. The reason why David Miscavige regularly beats staff members is because this is a cult, not a religion. They offer hope, and then destroy your life for profit. Google "times magazine cult of greed and power", also take a look at the stunning St. Petersburg Times series of articles "Truth rundown."

There can be no greater expression of this cult aspect than a leader that practices wanton violence upon staff, yet here are COS staff in this very thread, ignoring that and recruiting away, as their lives slowly dance away from them. A truly wasted life... seeking to destroy the lives of others for the petty greed of a single man.

I've always been confused why the scientologists don't want people to find out about their higher teachings about aliens and Xenu. Why don't they put these on their websites? Why be embarrassed about what you believe in?

Ruta, I think reason is far simpler than the complicated solution you present.

The SP Times tried to do a hatchet job on David Miscavige and the Church of Scientology based on the natterings and ravings of a few people who had been thrown out of the organization for various crimes.

By publishing these lies and bent truth, the SP Times did damage. It created a false picture of Scientology.

Isn't it logical that the Church of Scientology would want to rectify the damage where it lies?

On the other hand, the SP times, like a cheap whore, has no morals and will take anybody's money.

I don't see whey anyone would take them seriously.

Hubbard's claptrap is no threat to the pharmaceuticals industry, any more than Scientology space fantasies of clearing the planet and then the galaxy are real.

Scientology engenders a paranoia in its adherents, to re-frame every critic (including all journalists) as in league with the pharmaceuticals industry or as a bigot and hater, or as a criminal/terrorist.

In their world of Hubbard cuckoo, they are the "island of sanity" and the media is owned by the pharmaceuticals industry. Further, to them, that means psych drugs, and the evil psychs.

Xenu, the tax collectors, aided by the evil psychs 75 million years ago! They are all out to get mankind. Only Scientology can help.

Paranoid much?

Back to the issue, which I didn't address very well in my first post.

Journalists are bound by ethics to try to present a balanced view. The conglomerate they work for accepts advertisements from organizations the government has found to be legitimate.

Scientology has bought, bribed, and coerced its status as "legitimate" from the government in the U.S.

In the case of Google ads, individual site owners should have some choice, whether they want Scientology ads on their site. I've read where they have a method of choosing other ads, and blocking Scientology, but that it wasn't working.

Notice how another scilon is here plugging scientology for more members and sales. Thanks GaryDM for showing everyone scientologys true colours

The US media is paid nearly $3 billion each year by drug industries to advertise psych drugs. Does anyone think the media wants to alienate one of its biggest source of income by making it broadly known just how many suicides and murders are resulting because of psych drugs? (www.cchrint.org)

SAVING TAX PAYER DOLLARS

One example of how Hubbard's problem solving methods are saving tax payers hard earned money is CRIMINON (see http://www.ABLE.org).

1. The cost to US tax payers for operating prison systems is $200 billion annually (see: http://webb.senate.gov/pdf/prisonfactsheet4.html)

2. The criminal "rehabilitation programs" -- all of which are psych dominated -- are acknowledged failures.

3. Thee statistic: "return to prison 2 years after being released" averages 65 percent of released inmates back into the prison / justice system within two years.

4. L Ron Hubbard's CRIMINON program -- now in use in more than 1,200 prisons worldwide -- has a return to prison statistic of 0 (zero) to a very small percentage.

5. If used broadly (to the dismay of the psych / drug industries), savings to US taxpayers could amount to many billions each year.

This would cut into the huge cashflow pocketed by "criminal rehab" psych / drug programs.

Again, its the direct threat to these huge, powerful psych/drug industries that is behind slams on Scientology.

TOM CRUISE

The reason why Cruise is attacked consistently in the media is because with the Today tv show (2+ years ago), he caused the US public to really start discussing the potential hazards of psych drugs.

ONLY AFTER Cruise's interview, was there enough attention drawn to the subject that the FDA (which changed leadership) start requiring Black Box Health Warning labels on psych packaging. There are now more than 26 such labels.

AND it was then discovered that drug companies paid their PR people to write positive "medical" articles pushing a new psych drug or a new "disorder" -- and then paying a doctor to put his name to the article, which then got printed in leading medical magazines.

Tom Cruise, by his position (which then became the focus of attacks by the psych/drug industries and their front groups) brought public awarness up to the point of starting to question what they have been told.

It is only by an informed citzenry that a democracy can flourish. When monopolies control / manipulate the media, we all suffer.

Case in point: George W Bush administration's media manipulation that caused the US to agree to the Iraq war.

GaryDM --you have no clue as to how victimized you truly are. Your constant promotion of the CofS in every new article only proves how brainwashed both staff and public can be. Scientology can provide great relief for your troubles to new parishioners.The initial win and happiness you feel keep you going, pouring out your money looking for more of that same feeling you had in the beginning. But that feeling never comes again. Instead you are overwhelmed with constant promotion and the invasion of privacy and harassment (23 phone calls a day when there is an event) and if you end up working for them, loss of self entirely. You become like a drug addict always looking for that certain high you had before, setting aside everything that you have stooped to in search of that high. You and Scientologists who are viewing these articles are turning a blind eye to the crimes of the CofS when you know in your heart it is true. Wake up GaryDM and go back to the real world. You have rights. Take back your life Gary. It is a much better world than you believe it to be.

scientology claims that "clears" have perfect recall.

please show me a clear with perfect recall.

scientology should submit their claims to peer review and verification by independent scientists and doctors. people would be more likely to believe their claims if they did.

GaryDM --you have no clue as to how victimized you truly are. Your constant promotion of the CofS in every new article only proves how brainwashed both staff and public can be. Scientology can provide great relief for your troubles to new parishioners.The initial win and happiness you feel keep you going, pouring out your money looking for more of that same feeling you had in the beginning. But that feeling never comes again. Instead you are overwhelmed with constant promotion and the invasion of privacy and harassment (23 phone calls a day when there is an event) and if you end up working for them, loss of self entirely. You become like a drug addict always looking for that certain high you had before, setting aside everything that you have stooped to in search of that high. You and Scientologists who are viewing these articles are turning a blind eye to the crimes of the CofS when you know in your heart it is true. Wake up GaryDM and go back to the real world. You have rights. Take back your life Gary. It is a much better world than you believe it to be.

The ads are beautiful and we are very proud of them. We are working towards an OT Civilization.

Declare the war on anti-depressants and helping people in need. There are no lies nor propaganda. And yes, I am a member of the IAS

Scientology would love to replace the Psychiatric and Psychology industries with Scientology. They only care about money. That "1 trillion dollars" GaryDM references above, is the main driving force behind CoS and Scientologies hatred of the "PSYCH" industry as they call it. They want a huge slice of that pie. Money and power are all they care about. They don't care to help people or make the world a better place. They want your money, and they bastardize the first amendment while going after it.

Interesting article. Scientology and Scientologists rarely make much sense. As we can see, they try to use media attacks to tell their own message which here seems to be, "Get rid of the drugs and use us instead". Hubbard wrote that when attacked, "double curve the reply and welcome an investigation of them". I hope I got the quote right. Unlike Hubbard's clears I don't claim to have a perfect memory.

@John Davis

Natterings and ravings of a few people thrown out of their cult for their crimes?

Do you even know who Marty Rathbun (Kingpin) and Mike Rinder (Fact Checker) are?

They were near the very top people in your cult, heads of the OSA, spokespeople. Rathbun was Miscavige's right hand man, admitted to covering up important reports for the cult, when the cult "handled" Lisa McPherson into an "Introspection Rundown," strapped to a bed in the basement of the Ft. Harrison hotel. She died of dehydration.

Mike and Marty were your cult's finest top executives, willing to lie, cheat, and steal for the cult, and they spent decades doing it.

The cult is big in the Clearwater area and it is responsible for area journalists to get stories on them. Scientology is so galactic in their thinking, they have insinuated that journalists are evil, because they don't know it is their job to tour Scientology's new buildings, and promote the farcical statistics about expansion etc. or the virtue of the Vulture Ministers at disaster sites.

In other words, Scientology thinks the Fourth Estate should function as a propaganda wing for Scientology, and all its made-up glory.

A Virgina Tech student attended a "service" of some sort held by your Vulture Ministers on campus after the slaughter, and what they got was an invitation to join Scientology.

You people are really in outer space already, with some of your promotional efforts. Scientology is not respected worldwide. Most people haven't even heard of it, and those that have, think it is Tom Cruise nutty.

David Miscavige is a high school dropout. Did you ever think that if you wanted to establish respect for STUDY TECH, you might get a cult leader who made it through high school?

And you wonder why people think Scientology is nuts?

To just blindly follow the dictates of this violent, petty, uneducated little man, simply because you all follow the dictates of a pill popping, chain smoking sci fi writer from the 1950's...

“I think that the protections that we enjoy for freedom of worship exist so long as we don’t step over the line. When religious worship and belief cross over into things like fraud, victimization of others and the disruption of the political arena, that protection is no longer
appropriate.”
--Robert Goff
Professor Emeritus, UCSC

The philosophy of Scientology is based and founded on one single, particular datum:

"MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY."
- L. Ron Hubbard

Hubbard Communications Office
Policy Letter,
9 March 1972,
MS OEC 384

Don't listen to any Scientologist. They are all brain dead. They can't think for themselves. They live and breath LRH Tech. They can't live without it. They think they are nothing but Thetans driving a meat body, not humans living a life. They will be lost until they come to the end of their "cycle of action".

Don't believe the lies or the rhetoric.

Click on the link to see the price list for a "religion".

Fact: L. Ron Hubbard was found with the drug Vistaril in his system. It is an anti-psychotic, and no, it wasn't planted there. He was a science fiction writer that naturally didn't believe in his own bull crap, leading to point No. 2 ...

Fact: L. Ron Hubbard once quipped, "I have always thought there might be a lot of cash in starting a new religion." He actually said this in a variety of formats.

While the beliefs of scientologists border on Bad SciFi channel drama, it's the inherent evil that runs the company that irritates most individuals: the constant death cover-ups, the constant court battles, destroying individuals lives with hack PIs, and bankrupting individuals with no remorse, squeezing both the bank account and will-to-live from individuals simply too naive to see otherwise.

People are free to believe what they want. But when you start impeding on the free will of others, that's when you're going to be taken to task.

You're rats. At the end of the day, worthless, sniveling, slimey rats. And if their is a God, may he have mercy on your souls.

It amazes me to see how people who don't know anything about Scientology, LRH tech or the workings of the Church, are so quick to berrate us as Scientologists. We raise money just like any other religious organization. The Catholics pass the collection box, the jews require membership to their temple annually, and yet, Scientologists require $500 per year to be a member of the International Association of Scientologists for the betterment of man.

No, we are not brain dead. You are brain dead when you take an anti-depressant or drug your child with Ritalin. These are the things we are fighting for. People to think for themselves. There is no test for a chemical imbalance that says the human population is depressed or insane.
We have volunteer ministers that go to the ends of the earth to help the needy with food and shelter. We preach LRH tech to children. Getting rid of the "reactive mind" is key in this decline of society that we have today.

Everything is drugs and no one thinks for themselves. They rely on pills to do their thinking for them. All of these so-called mental illnesses were made up by the medical society that preach a pseudo science called psychiatry. The whole idea of Scientology is to rid the mind of engrams. We live with engrams. Everyday your mind is recording all of the bad things that happen.

Consider losing a loved one. What does the doctor say? Take a depression medication. Instead of faith and healing, we turn to a bottle of Prozac, Lexapro or Zoloft. There are no answers to losing a loved one. Only realizing that they are a spirit and their body has proved to be an impediment that they no longer needed. This is very much like every faith. Catholics believe it and the jews believe that there is a "here after." So before you mock Scientology, I would hope that each would be inclined to pick up one of LRH's books and study, Look inside yourself. Know yourself and know life. You will be a better person for it.

i ALWAYS see this. Instead of commenting on the actual story, scientologists that comment here are promoting their religion with links to go to and books to read and what not.
Or they go on a tangent about how psychiatry is the devil.

Hopefully soon you will see and believe what critics of the church are saying because it's TRUE.

I don't think I have ever run across a former Scientologist who hasn't experienced or witnessed some type of criminal act.

And Gary, all that stuff you say about how much good the church is doing, I'm sorry but that bad completely outweighs it.

Here are some examples of their criminal activities:
-1978, L Ron Hubbard was convicted in France for fraud.
-Operation Freakout
-The Government in Spain convicted Heber Jentzsch & ten other Scientology members of "illicit association," coercion, fraud, and labor law violations.
-In 2009, Tommy Davis admits that there was violence going on in the church.
-In Canada the church was convicted on the charge or breaching public trust in 1992
- In France the church is know as a dangerous cult.
-In Belgium, the church went on trial for unlawful exercise of medicine, and fraud,
-In the UK the church payed off London police with thousands of pounds.
-Lisa McPherson, Kyle Brennan, Ellie Perkins
-Disconnection
-Operation Snow White
- In 1999, In Greece, 15 Scientologists were accused of systematically keeping files on politicians, journalists, judges, clergymen and other Greek leading personalities
-In 1997, 29 Scientologists were sentenced to jail for criminal association in Italy.
-in 1989, Scientology was found guilty of intentionally inflicting emotional distress and was ordered to pay Larry Wollersheim $35,000,000 but was reduced to $2,500,000. They still have not payed him.
-The church used lawsuits and harassment to intimidate the Internal Revenue Service in pursuit of non-profit tax-exempt status, succeeding after persuading high-ranking U.S. government officials that Scientology could just make the trouble “go away” if the IRS caved in.
- Top ex-Scientology members speak of violence that they endured from David Miscavaige
-From 1968-1996 there were 25 reports of false imprisonment.
-From 1978-1998 there were 14 reports of assault.
-From 1973-1996 there were 11 reports of violation of labor laws.
-From 1975-1998 there were 18 reports of fraud.
-Fair Game (Shawn Lonsdale)
- Hubbard quotes: ""I'd like to start a religion. That's where the money is"
"You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion."

You should NEVER have to pay money in a religion in order to get some spiritual satisfaction. Religion should be free. If I want to study Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, I would be able to FREE OF CHARGE.
The response I probably will get is excuse that "All religions commit crimes, and Christianity is far worse than Scientology, etc." I don't care what is worse. The point is that SCIENTOLOGY IS COMMITTING CRIMES AND RUINING LIVES AND NOTHING IS BEING DONE ABOUT IT.
How is that thousands of people who have left the church from all over the world are recalling similar accounts of what happened to them? Is it just a coincidence? I think not.

Wow, if Achilles isn't already brainwashed ...

Listen up, Scientologists: I offer you a simple challenge. If you do, indeed, see life more clearly, than you should have no trouble in deciphering reality from fiction when it comes to your "religion," correct?

Go to the following web site (dear moderator, this isn't a promo, it's an educational-web site with verified facts that has even been quoted on Dateline NBC):

www.xenu.net.

Go to the web site, read, and draw your own conclusions. That site itself links directly to the official Scientology home page so that skeptics may have both sides before taking a stance.

(On a more personal note, I'm a medical professional, and the argument against the research of tricyclic antidepressants with regards to neurotransmitters is amusing. Scientologists love to throw the 'money' excuse out there, when their own religion demands it. *Lots* of it. They'll squeeze you until you turn blue. And its also the only religion that requires money. Christianity, Judaism, et al, they have offerings, but nothing is demanded. Furthermore, dismissing scientific research in exchange for a science fiction writer's half-wit beliefs isn't only laughable, but also downright scary.)

And L. Ron Hubbard wasn't a doctor. He received his Doctor of Philosophy by Sequoia University, a "diploma mill" founded and paid by ... you guessed it ... L. Ron Hubbard.

I see the usual Scientology "Haters" are out. People should learn what Scientology really stands for and what social activities they accomplish. Notice the haters always use inflammatory "buzzwords" like blatant, infuriate, barbaric, etc, etc. Who uses that kind of language?? Haters do.

Also read this short article.

"The True Story of Scientology" by L. Ron Hubbard

http://www.truestoryofscientology.com/

It also isn't far fetched to assume Scientology has many Crowley-esque traits to it's "Religion". First off, Hubbard has quoted that he and Crowley were "good friends", mentioning 666, the mark of the beast, making note to Jeff Jacobson, whom Hubbard lived with and studied "Black Magic".

Both Hubbard and Crowley consider it important to have the person recall his or her birth. "Having allowed the mind to return for some hundred times to the hour of birth, it should be encouraged to endeavour to penetrate beyond that period"

Both Hubbard and Crowley are avowedly anti-psychiatry. "Official psychoanalysis is therefore committed to upholding a fraud... psychoanalysts have misinterpreted life, and announced the absurdity that every human being is essentially an anti-social, criminal, and insane animal"

Hubbard and Crowley both posit the ability of the person to leave his or her body at times. Crowley states that the way to learn to leave your body is to mock up a body like your own in front of your physical body. Eventually you will learn to leave your physical body with your "astral body" and travel and view at will without physical restrictions.

In Crowley's Organization are several grade levels. To reach the Grade of Adeptus Exemptus "The Adept must prepare and publish a thesis setting forth His knowledge of the Universe, and his proposals for its welfare and progress. He will thus be known as the leader of a school of thought." It is apparent that Hubbard has fulfilled this requirement.

Hubbard was an extension of Crowley, and if you compare the evil doings of the "church" today, you can intertwine the relation with Satanic beliefs to the way the upper management beats their top execs, steals parishioner money, abuses people physically and mentally, and forces people to do satistic and sick things for absolutely no reason other then amusement or for self fullfillment. Miscavige is doing EXACTLY what Hubbard set out for him to do, and there in lies the ultimate problem. If it wasn't Miscavige, it would be someone else. And when everything hits the fan, who do you think David is going to blame and point fingers to? You guessed it, Hubbard himself.

You know, it occurs to me that one way to tell a cult from a religion is the following: if I wanted to promote Christianity or Islam or Buddhism I would be able to point the reader at all sorts of documents written by people who were famous for all sorts of reasons. There's a lot more out there than the Bible or Koran; there are entire bookstores for that sort of thing.

By contrast, if I wanted to promote Scientology (in fact I don't want to promote any religion; I think it's impolite to market religion for comparison shoppers), I end up telling people to read L. Ron Hubbard and nobody else. Now why is that? Perhaps nobody but the one famous personality ever wrote anything persuasive about Scientology? Or perhaps (and I do find this a little more probable) nobody would be permitted to do so. L. Ron wrote the 'tech'. Creativity (or critical thought) would be uncomfortably close to 'squirreling', or changing the Writings of L. Ron.

Honestly, I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of a bunch of people who have elected not to grow or develop beyond the horizon as drawn out by a racist, misogynist 1950s sci-fi writer.

If Achilles is brainwashed, it sure feels good.

Don't listen to ANY Scientologist.

Find your own truth:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnUbdAw9V4Y
www.xenu.net
www.xenutv.com
www.lisamcpherson.org
www.tampabay.com/specials/2009/reports/project
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b_uoLv3aO8
www.whyweprotest.net/en
www.exscientologykids.com
theunfunnytruth.ytmnd.com
www.torymagoo.org
www.gerryarmstrong.org
www.scientology-lies.com
www.forum.exscn.net
www.ronthenut.org
www.crackpots.org
www.factnet.org
www.lermanet.com
www.whyaretheydead.info
www.xenu-directory.net
www.holysmoke.org
whatstheharm.net/scientology.html
www.fairgamed.org
www.suppressiveperson.org
www.ex-cult.org/Groups/Scientology
www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Fishman
www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/scndoc.htm
www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/index.html
www.modemac.com/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/An_Introduction_to_Scientology
www.wiseoldgoat.com/papers-scientology/hubbard.html
www.newsfrombree.co.uk/stolgy_0.htm
www.skeptictank.org/nl/nutl352.htm
www.altreligionscientology.org
www.cultnews.com/?cat=126
www.disinfo.com/archive/pages/dossier/id29/pg1/index.html
stopscientology.blogspot.com
www.angrychristiannews.com/Resources.html
home.snafu.de/tilman/mystory/applied.html
forums.whyweprotest.net/123-leaks-legal/list-leaked-tape-r2r-sets-w-download-links-46769
www2.thecia.net/users/rnewman/scientology/home.html
www.xs4all.nl/~kspaink/fishman/home.html
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6812164614976718979
www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_w-YWwC1lI
www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKpjKz1YqUY
www.youtube.com/watch?v=koLeIaYKP1I
www.youtube.com/watch?v=31xgxdFnq1Q

If you wanted to find out about a person, what kind of person he was and so on, what kind of opinion do you think you might get if the only person you talked to was his ex-wife?

It would certainly be a very biased opinion.

The only real way to find out about him would be to talk to him directly, wouldn't it?

Most of the knee-jerk reactions on this board are not the poster's opinions, but someone else's ideas, and those ideas are embellished, embroidered, added to and twisted each time they get repeated.

Guys, please try to think for yourselves.

If you want to find out about Scientology, read Hubbard's books. You don't even have to buy them - they're in every public library.

The philosophy of Scientology is based and founded on one single, particular datum:

"MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY."
- L. Ron Hubbard

Hubbard Communications Office
Policy Letter,
9 March 1972,
MS OEC 384

I LUV L Ron Hubbard....I LUV and WORSHIP the ground he walked on!!!!

I have paid over $5 million for the secrets of Xenu, volcanoes, Body thetans covering my ass, DC-9 airplanes, AND ITS WORTH EVERY PENNY OF IT!

WAKE UP YOU HUMAN LOW LIFE SPECIES........ SCIENTOLOGISTS HAVE ARRIVED TO SAVE YOU! We are the NEW ELITE RACE, the new super human species called HOMO-NOVIS,

BOW DOWN AND WORSHIP US, AND WE MAY SPARE YOU!.....oh..yes.... er.....and before you leave.......please deposit your checkbook with our cashier. REMEMBER....RON LUVS YOU!

I read the books were written by L. Ron Hubbard the same books that he approved for publication and never complained about for 50 years not the current books that are available for over $3000.00. The current book drive is bogus as these books were rewritten by David Miscavaige who claims that knew what L. Ron Hubbard actually meant to say even after his death.

The Golden Age of Tech unfolded before me and opened my eyes.

Scientology is the biggest scam in the universe. No question about it.

Thanks for posting tons of websites but you are wasting your time. If we believe in Scientology, which is the study of truth and it helps any individual, then we will never give it up. For me, it has worked wonders in just daily survival. I support the IAS, and CCHR and see what anti-depressants do to a human being. I speak from personal experiences and I'm not quotting any one or even Tom Cruise. If you don't like us fine, but let us be. We aren't hurting you. If you want to come to us, you are more than welcome. If not, stay in your little world of reactive minds, drugs and no future on this planet. Forget humanity. We don't need it, right? And stop bashing David MisCavige. And I am pleased to see after the departure of L. Ron Hubbard in 1986, his name is still alive and well. Now, who is brainwashed and obsessed? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"If you wanted to find out about a person, what kind of person he was and so on, what kind of opinion do you think you might get if the only person you talked to was his ex-wife?
The only real way to find out about him would be to talk to him directly, wouldn't it? "

Thank you for making that point, because it is precisely this that is Scientology's problem; the organisation has scared away all commentators except for those who feel themselves so badly wounded that they must speak up despite the danger to themselves.

It would be pretty abnormal to find a man whose ex-wife is the only person who dares to express an opinion. Indeed it would be exceptional. This is the stuff of Mafia movies. But Scientology has a long-standing policy of clamping down on any reasonable discussion. In doing so it has, in fact, alienated pretty much everybody.

Like the man whose situation you describe in such a charmingly misogynistic, Hubbardian turn of phrase, Scientology chose to destroy its marriages. Scientology's leader, David Miscavige, chose to publicly humiliate and physically beat his nearest and dearest[1]. Like the man whose every marriage ends in an acrimonious divorce, Scientology has made its bed, and now it will have to lie in it.

[1] http://www.tampabay.com/news/article1012148.ece

Hubbard was a fraudster and delusional. Miscavige is an abusive psychopath.

In 60 years Scientology has not been able to prove even ONE of their outlandish claims. Where are all the 'clears'? Show the world *just one* person with all of the abilities you claim clears possess.

Criminon, Narconon, etc are all cult front groups that exist for one reason-recruitment. Where are the independent studies that show ANYONE benefits from your big, fat global scam?

Where are the Scientology soup kitchens? Homeless shelters? Hospitals? Domestic violence shelters? ANY charitiers of ANY kind? Where are they?
Going to disasters sites and third world countries and passing out copiers of The Way to Happiness doesn't count as 'charity' You are without a doubt the cheapest, greediest, criminal, abusive, immoral "religion" to ever exist.

If you're a religion so is the Mafia. And you're crumbling even as I type this.

The head of the Galactic Federation (76 planets around larger stars visible from here) (founded 95,000,000 years ago, very space opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet - 178 billion on average) by mass implanting..

He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-Bomb on the principal volcanos (incident II) and then the Pacific area ones were taken - in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic area ones to Las Palmas and there "packaged".

His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various misleading data by means of circuits etc was placed in the unplants. When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people) captured him after six years of battle and put him in an electronic mountain trap where he still is. "They" are gone. The place (Confederation) has since been a desert.

The length and brutality of it all was such that this Confederation never recovered. The implant is calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it. This liability has been dispensed with by my tech development. One can freewheel through the implant and die unless it is approached as precisely outlined. The "freewheel" (auto-running on and on) lasts too long, denies sleep etc and one dies. So be careful to do only Incidents I and II as given and not plow around and fail to complete one thetan at a time.

In December 1967 1 know someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful.

One's body is a mass of individual thetans stuck to oneself or to the body.

One has to clean them off by running incident II and Incident I. It is a long job, requiring care, patience and good auditing.

You are running beings. They respond like any preclear. Some large, some small.

Thetans believed they were one. This is the primary error.

Good luck.

For all the Scilons out there who haven't reached OT III yet, good luck with your next sec check!

After reading a few comments from the Scientologists, I find myself more sympathetic than anything else. At its core, it's more sad than anything else. Just as David Koresh was able to hypnotize, coerce and corrupt, as is Scientology.

Not because they aren't "Christians" (I don't care what you practice), but because they're mentally trapped. Their collective 'high' or supposed clarity is born out of mental and emotional blockade, put in place by Scientology, and then "cured" by the same group.

Religions don't trap you, they free you, literally and figuratively. But Scientologists have been programmed to not only ignore, but to be oblivious to this ...

(Do Scientologists not read the memoirs of their former brethren, and personal hell that the religion put them through? If you're a Scientologist, give it a test. Act it out: Tell them, you wish no longer to belong. It isn't working for you. Tell them you're going to speak to a reporter about your experiences.

... and although you privately plan to return, wait to see what the retribution is. Churches don't perform this way. Cults do.)

Do you remember Kindergarten? Who was your teacher, and was she kind? Did she impress being kind to others? Did you read the Clifford books? How about the first time you learned to read hands on a clock? The spelling bee? Swings? Recess! Awkward puberty in middle school wasn't fun for anyone, but we survived it, only to welcome the inevitable fear of high school. Your first kiss ...

Unfortunately, regardless of what we post, write, or the education we ask them to seek, they're sitting with a glazed look among their faces. Frozen. Think Stepford Wives.

(Scientology's clever anecdote is that non-Scientologists are those whom are lost, yet I have an undeniable love for my son, my past, and my future. I can achieve anything I want in life.

I'm not a Christian. I am not Jewish. I do not belong to any religion. I have a set of beliefs that are my own, but ultimately, it comes down to faith.

With Scientology, it isn't about faith. It's about assimilation. It's about brainwash via a sadistic science fiction writer, who at his core, was simply an ill-man. He bought himself a Doctorate from a school that he invented. He had innocent people who wanted freedom hurt, sometimes killed. These are truths. Seek it.

This isn't about psych meds. I've never taken any, because, like most Americans and those abroad, I do not require any. Contrary to your beliefs, we're not a pill-popping world. We a world that, at its core, strives to make it a better one. We screw up along the way, sure. But we're trying. Yes, there's bad things in life; but you could never appreciate how good you have it, the pure innocence and love in my child's face, without the bad.

Our bodies are not vessels. They allow us to taste, touch, feel, and cry. They give us the ability to embrace, show affection, and yes, even frustration. They allow us to hold our child, and rock them to sleep. Just as plants, animals, and sea-life demonstrate beauty in their habitat, as do we. We're not possessed by alien life forms. We're people. Unique in our bodies, our minds, and the mystery of being self-aware.

We have a relatively short life to get this right, for one reason or another. No one really knows, not even Hubbard. You need to make the most of it, without reflecting on your deathbed that you had never dared to live ...

I wish you all the best. And I hope, with every inch of me, that you awaken.

Abre los ojos,

Nate

To the person who said that all religions collect money - here's the difference.

If you don't contribute to the collection plate in a church, a mosque or a temple, you're still a member in good standing, because real religions are not about profit but matters of the soul.

If you don't cough up money in Scientology, you don't get any of the "benefits" or the "auditing". Your only other recourse is to work for effectively nothing, for Scientology, in order to gain access to these "benefits".

Religion is free. Scientology is neither.

Sorry but incorrect, BrianC. Jews have to belong to the temple they worship at. I should know as I am married to one. $200 a year or you can't walk into it. Also tickets for the high holidays like Roshashanah or Yom Kippur have to be sold to save a seat for worship.
The catholic religion requires large amounts for tuition to their schools telling the parents of students they will get a better education instead of attending public schools. There is exorbitant tuitions. I think it costs alittle more than Dianetics. I paid $7.99 for my copy.

I can see why Scientology needs to lie about everything and do a lot of ads.

I just watched that old BBC interview with L. Ron Hubbard, that was mentioned by the first poster.

He lies in the interview and comes off as distinctly insane. There's a British ex-scientologist in the same interview who sounds eloquent in comparison. He also tells the truth, something which other members of crazy cult seem incapable.

So, if you have Hubbard, sounding quite mad, and charging hundreds of thousands for the quackery, and some very bright ex-members telling it like it is, who are you going to believe?

Certainly not the members of Scientology's OSA, who post here, pretending they are just garden variety Scientologists.

I'm motivated by social conscience. Members of the OSA have some kind of axe hanging over them, to tell glowing lies about their cult. And they've been brainwashed to do so. It is really quite extraordinary.

This is not a religion. It is Brainwash Inc.

Achilles: Dianetics costs 7.99.

And readers will find (some of) the rest of the price list of Scientology at: http://www.xenu.net/archive/prices.html

And I quote: "The current (conservative) total cost for the whole bridge to OT9 readiness is estimated at $365,000 - $380,000."

That's 1900 YEARS of membership to a temple, folks - about 25 lifetimes worth, assuming you were charged it every year from birth to death, which I'm moderately sure that you aren't.

As for the availability/cost of Catholic school tuition, you could more reasonably compare that to the availability/cost of Study Tech than to the availability/cost of auditing, progressing up the Bridge, etc. Catholicism doesn't even have the idea that you can't progress in your religion unless you pay set donations of several thousand dollars to take taped courses...

Unfortunately it's hard to make a direct comparison as there are so few Study Tech schools out there, but let's look at the example of Will Smith's Scientology school in California. This is expected to cost $12,500 a year for grades 3-6 and $11,500 for K-2. Looking up some numbers for comparison, average tuition at a Catholic primary school is $2,451, and secondary school is $4,845 (Table 59, Digest of Education Statistics 2005, National Center for Education Statistics.[1])

In short, Scientology is unusually expensive and no amount of bluster about reserving seats for Yom Kippur will change that. For those who are curious about the cost of Study Tech - schools implementing it are charged up to 10% of their course fees for using the system[2]. The same cannot be said for the word of mainstream religions.

[1] http://nces.ed.gov/PUBSEARCH/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2006030

[2] http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/19/usa.filmnews

Achilles says: "The catholic religion requires large amounts for tuition to their schools telling the parents of students they will get a better education instead of attending public schools. There is exorbitant tuitions. I think it costs alittle more than Dianetics. I paid $7.99 for my copy"

Sorry, Achilles, but you're incorrect. Having been educated in catholic schools, I can tell you that it cost my parents $600 per year (in the 80s-90s). That was the full price. There were plenty of students in my class who paid less than that because their families couldn't afford it, including several who paid nothing at all (and the were not receiving scholarships).

Also, you paid for the introductory copy of the many, many books you have to buy in Scientology. I can get a Koran or Book of Mormon for free.

My original point stands: Religion is free - Scientology is neither.

I was born and raised in Clearwater and saw firsthand with my own eyes how brutal, bizarre and cultish the Scientology organization is. They use threats, violence and dishonesty to ruin my hometown, especially the downtown, where they run around in stupid uniforms acting like robots. Also, when you do business with a scientologist, you are in for constant scamming, hidden agendas, and outright rip-offs. Scientology has wrecked Clearwater and corrupted it. They are tax exempt, and they add very little value to my town. I wish that this weird cult had chosen some other place to ruin.

A decent rebuttal to most of the accusations against Scientology can be found here:

http://scientologymyths.info

I won't regurgitate them all here, but I would recommend readers allow Scientologist's to give their side of the argument(s).

sophie said: "You should NEVER have to pay money in a religion in order to get some spiritual satisfaction. Religion should be free."

And it is free to study Scientology, sophie. Tremendous spiritual satisfaction can be gained from studying Scientology, freely available in libraries, or for pennies on the dollar on ebay or amazon.

With regard to the classes, services and counseling, if Scientology decided to require donations of 10% of one's income (as other religions require), you'd easily be into six figures over an adult lifetime. More below.

John Davis wrote: "If you wanted to find out about a person, what kind of person he was and so on, what kind of opinion do you think you might get if the only person you talked to was his ex-wife?"

Couldn't you say the same thing about a disgruntled former employee, who had been removed from their position by their previous employer?

I guess my biggest beef with the whole Rathbun, Rinder and Miscavige thing is that the St. Pete Times cancelled an interview with Miscavige prior to going to print. In May, an interview was scheduled and confirmed for July 6. Then, on June 19 -- two days before going to print -- the St Pete Times cancelled the interview. They basically gave the accusers a chance to speak but denied the same privilege of the accused. Wouldn't it have been far more fair -- prior to publishing -- to allow Miscavige to address the accusations personally? Especially when the accusations were so inflammatory.

Nate wrote: "I wish you all the best. And I hope, with every inch of me, that you awaken."

I hope you awaken too, Nate. You seem like a bright fellow, but you seem to have only a onesided view of Scientology. Have you ever honestly tried to see the Scientologists' side of things, without assuming/believing the worst? You also wrote "Religions don't trap you, they free you, literally and figuratively".

Religions can indeed free one literally and figuratively. And all religions (along with science and politics), can also ensnare and entrap. Scientology, approached with personal integrity and honesty, can indeed make one free. But losing those, it can also ensnare and entrap.

Ned wrote: "pretending they are just garden variety Scientologists."

I can't speak for anyone else, Ned, but I'm afraid that in my case, I'm your typical garden variety Scientologist. I don't work for the Church, but do have an interest in staying up with both sides of the debate. And have been doing so for several decades.

BenjaminB wrote: "In short, Scientology is unusually expensive and no amount of bluster about reserving seats for Yom Kippur will change that"

Not sure "bluster" is necessary. If, as mentioned above, Scientology decided to require or recommend donations of 10% of one's earnings (as required by LDS -- another relatively recent religion), we could easily be looking at a couple hundred thousand dollars over an adult lifetime.

On the other hand, using a "pay as you go" system as Scientology uses, allows the person to pay when and where one wishes -- or not at all. Some could argue that this approach is fairer, in the world of churches and donations.

But again, I would suggest that readers read through the website mentioned above. It gives a fairly decent rebuttal to many of the common, and not so common, accusations and complaints against Scientology, Hubbard and the Church.

On june 21, 2009 St. Petersburg Times wrote:
" On May 13, the Times asked to interview Miscavige, in person or by phone, and renewed the request repeatedly the past five weeks. Church officials said Miscavige's schedule would not permit an interview before July.

At 5:50 p.m. Saturday, Miscavige e-mailed the Times to protest the newspaper's decision to publish instead of waiting until he was available. His letter said he would produce information "annihilating the credibility'' of the defectors. Beloved by millions of Scientologists, church spokesmen say, Miscavige has guided the church through a quarter-century of growth."

In fact the interview was never canceled. Miscavige however stalled it for 5 weeks, knowing very well the series were planned to be published on June 21. Finally Miscavige agreed to an interview that would take place 2 weeks AFTER the planned publishing date. And scientologists think that is unfair? Nobody can be that busy that he is unable during a period of 5 weeks to grant an interview, especially when it is about high ranking defectors with devastating information about his organization. That is stupid. Blaming the St. Petersburg Times even more.

Peter wrote: "In fact the interview was never canceled."

Peter, you too have apparently not taken the time to read the Scientologists' side of the story. If you had done so, you would be aware that -- according to the Scientologists making the meeting arrangements -- the St. Pete Times not only agreed to the July 6 interview with Miscavige in late May, but then confirmed it on at least two occasions in June. Then, on June 17 -- four days before going to print -- the St. Pete Times cancelled the interview with Miscavige.

The Scientologists' side of what happened:
http://www.freedommag.org/the_critical_omission

Peter wrote: "Nobody can be that busy that he is unable during a period of 5 weeks to grant an interview"

You mean, like the Pope or Dalai Lama?

Your argument is akin to saying that if a local community newspaper requested a personal one-on-one interview with the Pope or Dalai Lama -- because of inflammatory accusations against them from some high-ranking former, defrocked elders in their church -- that the local community newspaper should demand to meet with the Pope or Dalai Lama in two weeks instead of five.

Not sure if the argument really holds water, Peter.

okay, history lesson, in the start Dianetics was meant to be a self help psych book, however, the AMA (american medical association), the APA (american psychiatric association) Told Hubbard since he was not a doctor and his books were junk science, if he published them as psych books, he would be sued and jailed.

Hubbard, like any narcissist, got offended and wrote in every book psych was evil and wrong and bad, and put his books out as religious texts so he wouldn't get in trouble.

That is why CO$ is so against Psych, because their founder got butthurt at being told to STFU and provide proof of his insane writings.

Nate stated:
"We have volunteer ministers that go to the ends of the earth to help the needy with food and shelter."

This is an absolute lie! "volunteer ministers" hand out donations of food an shelter made by others. Your church has never donated anything. If they have, prove it.

Sorry - my comment should have been directed at Achilles not Nate.

Lake, you are invalid.

BrianC said it best:

Religion is free - Scientology is neither.

The philosophy of Scientology is based and founded on one single, particular datum:

"MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY."
- L. Ron Hubbard

Hubbard Communications Office
Policy Letter,
9 March 1972,
MS OEC 384

Obnosis is a cult term to observe the obvious and really see what is there.

Please obnose this fact -- $cientology is NOT expanding as it claims. It is losing because of the facts on their own policy letters. We use their own material, HCOB, and LRH's own quotes and their own policy to defeat them and make them lose.

They are dying and will never destroy all other religions as they claim and want.

You/we are wining the info war, they are losing ground.

Post more facts against them each and every day.

All Rights Reserved

Lake> Not sure "bluster" is necessary. If, as mentioned above, Scientology decided to require or recommend donations of 10% of one's earnings (as required by LDS -- another relatively recent religion), we could easily be looking at a couple hundred thousand dollars over an adult lifetime. On the other hand, using a "pay as you go" system as Scientology uses, allows the person to pay when and where one wishes -- or not at all. Some could argue that this approach is fairer, in the world of churches and donations.

Hi Lake.

See, that's what I mean by 'bluster'. Misrepresentation and misleading comparisons - hopping from one discussion point to another as evidence is brought in that tears down the original argument. The net result is that the Scientologist comes across as a sophist.

One argument at a time, if you please. As I recall, we were discussing the question of whether Catholic schools require exorbitant tuition fees, and whether this can usefully be compared with the cost of a paperback copy of Dianetics as a demonstration that Scientology is cheaper.

Still, let us examine the question that you rather randomly chose to highlight, namely, 'Is the up-front requirement of set fees of many thousands of dollars more or less ethical than a 10% tithe?' On this topic (despite on a personal level having no love for the FLDS, which on a purely personal basis I consider to be cult-like and beyond the barriers of good taste) I have to say that the percentage tithe approach is more ethical by far. Why? Because on a 10% tithe, no matter how much or how little you make, you still have 90% left to live on. So assuming for the sake of your proposed argument that the 10% tithe is your only obligation to the religion, you would not be likely to find yourself dangerously short of cash due to having put yourself into massive debt for the benefit of your religion - unlike Patrice Vic, who threw himself from the 25th floor of a building for lack of 30,000 francs to pay for the purification rundown he 'needed', or Greg Bashaw, OT7, who killed himself owing the bank $27,000 and $29,000 on credit cards, or Noah Lottick, who jumped from a 10th floor window to his death clutching his last $171 in cash.

For somebody on a good salary in the FLDS, a tithe _could_ exceed a couple of hundred thousand throughout the individual's working life - but someone on a smaller salary is relatively unlikely to end up over 50k in debt as a result of paying a 10% tithe. Exorbitant fixed 'donations' (especially if others are awarded commission of any kind, but I digress) contain no such safety mechanisms. In short: any organisation that aids you in getting into serious debt for no plausible reason is an organisation that is doing its adherents no good whatsoever.

Please.. please.. please people listen to garyDM, John Davis, Vanilla Sky, Achilles. Keith, Lake and Myself

Scientology works and it helps! The TECH is clean and precise. If you follow it as LRH wrote it you will find the truth.

I have been a Scientologist for many years. If you want to know about Scientology, just go to your local org to hear the facts from dedicated children working hard long hours without seeing their parents in order to get the teachings for free. Now THAT is dedication!!

You won’t understand Scientology until you ARE a Scientologist.

Anonymous is nothing but a hate group, which is funded by psychiatrists. These are the same psychiatrists that started the Holocaust. These same psychiatrists are commanded to hinder mankind's spiritual development by the 4th and 5th invader forces from the Marcab Fleets of a distant galaxy. They are still angry that Hubbard found out about the body thetans and that we are all rebelling from what Xenu did to us some 75 million years ago!

You cannot believe Anonymous!!

Anonymous = Psychiatry = Holocaust = Space Aliens example.

Don't believe the internet, or the news stations, or the newspapers, or your friends, or your family, or your police, or your psychiatrist, or your government. They ALL lie about Scientology.

Only listen to us, The Church of Scientology, because we don’t lie… ever!!

Hi BenjaminB,

The LDS are the Church of Latter Day Saints -- the Mormons. The FLDS are an extremist version of the LDS.

"See, that's what I mean by 'bluster'. Misrepresentation and misleading comparisons"

Uh, yes. Then stop doing it.

With regard to your unhappiness with the topics I specifically responded to ... which of the accusations and criticisms mentioned above have not been thoroughly addressed at:

http://scientologymyths.info

... which I opened my initial message with?

David Miscavaige, the Chairman of the Board for the Church of Scientology is a LIAR.
He stands before the entire membership of Scientology and says things that are FALSE.
Anyone privy to the facts/stats know they are false but because he is the "new messiah" his "sheepeople" wildly applaud his FANTASTIES.
Get real.Grow up.Get out of Scientology.Take back your life.

Why is it that Scientology critics feel the need to fake a Scientologist's name (ala "terryeo") during debates? I guess this act of dishonesty and desperation tells more about who they feel is winning the debate than anything else.

wait, we are being FUNDED?! When did this happen? I certainly never recieved any check for my work against the church.

Lake, you're right...

Everyone, the best way to find out about Scientology is to keep looking at my watch… your eyes are getting heavier… your getting sleepy… at the count of three you’ll sign this contract not to sue us and then hand over all your worldly possessions… 1…. 2…. 3!! Muh haa haaa

The philosophy of Scientology is based and founded on one single, particular datum:

“MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY.”
- L. Ron Hubbard

Hubbard Communications Office
Policy Letter,
9 March 1972,
MS OEC 384

Lake;

Nothing on your silly little website debunks the truth about your two idiot leaders LRH and DM. Sorry... I've got multiple references to ever one of yours. Just look up my post from the Aug 14th.

What makes a devoted Scientologist not only denouce but try to destroy the very church they've spent 20 to 30 years of their life supporting?

It's part of everyone's "Cycle of Action" (taken directly from LRH tech).

You too will one day be an ex-scientologist.

:-)

BnThDnTh writes: "Nothing on your silly little website debunks the truth ... I've got multiple references to ever one of yours."

Clearly your wayyy bigger awesome list of websites which repeats all the same accusations and links to one another, is no match for my single website which debunks all those accusations with third party documentation.

If these postings reflect the USA the country is far nuttier than I ever thought possible. In fact it is strung with fruit loops from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

Scientology is good stuff. Helpful for you (if you reach for and assimilate it) and helpful for others. Good stuff. Scares the hell out of critics, though.

Now why would people object so strongly to helpful stuff? Because those people see helpful stuff as being a threat, that's why. They get a feeling, they feel threatened. If their neighbor becomes more well and able, becomes brighter and more cheerful, their neighbor will be a bigger threat to them -they think. Meanwhile their neighbor becomes brighter and more cheerful and proceeds to make his life a little bit better and his neighbor's lives slightly nicer, and so on.

Terryeo you are a fruit cake and you sound like the prunes are getting rancid inside of you unless of course someone like Dave T pops up and shouts "I invoke Poe's law" to describe your bizarre postings, there is no vindication for what your blabs on this thread. What's the matter with you man? You sound like you've been brainwashed or simply washed of all effort to depend only on your inner self for strength. Scientology and the other "ologies" are nothing more than garbage and bogus. As of psych meds don't take them if you don't need them but that doesn't mean you have to become a Scientology disciple to get rid of them. No need to endlessly discuss redemption due to Scientology or the impossibility of redemption in Scientology--the whole damn shebang should be abolished--it is a cult without rhyme or reason founded by a couple of charlatans and the merits or demerits of it, salvation with or without it are irrelevant. Are you sure Terryeo that Scientology is not like the Hadron Collider in Geneva? It sure seems to have converted your brain into a bunch of Higgs Bosons.

Lake, how come the site you link doesn't mention several high profile cases against scientology in countries other than the US?

A lie of omission is still a lie.

Terryeo: so what you are saying is that we should all be afraid of mr. bob down the street who is doing better than you at everything so you decide to stir shit up like doing petty crimes?

Have you ever heard of love thy neighbor. Then again you wouldn't cause certainly you believe of what you said.

Most critics that protest Scientology aren't "jealous" or mad of their success, they are upset about the ways they draw in followers with videos and advertisements that you would know is false and instead sidle their way around describing what Scientology mainly believes like most religions would initially explain.

If you wanted less drama out of all of this, why won't you just initially just tell what your beliefs are rather than buying those expensive, overpriced books that most people would obviously would not buy at this day and age.

Anon wrote: "Lake, how come the site you link doesn't mention several high profile cases against scientology in countries other than the US?"

Don't know. Drop them a note or ask in the blog there.

Sir lolwatsalot: "why won't you just initially just tell what your beliefs are rather than buying those expensive, overpriced books ..."

The books are free at libraries or pennies on the dollar at ebay or amazon, and the religion's most fundamental and meaningful beliefs are freely available in the References section online at whatisscientology.org .

Lets be honest Sir lol, this isn't about Scientology not telling you what its beliefs are ... this is about your inability to put all the hype on the backburner, and take an honest, fair look at what Scientology is really all about.

If $cientology is so well and good, then why do they 'fair game' any critics? Separate them from family and friends? Harass old people for their last penny?

hmmp...

Oh god, how I see kids just getting into the old lady's gossip. Hear a rumor, pass it on, hear about someone die, pass it on. Hear about a destructive storm. pass it on. But hear about people going free? Change the story. Who wants to hear about freedom? Well I won't talk about it here because it's obvious you wouldn't spread the word. Keep smoking your dope and stay stupid. Others are waking up and going free.

The main purpose of all the controversy on both sides is to keep people from finding out the data Hubbard discovered that can enable man to set himself free if he takes the responsiblity to understand and apply it.

WHY CAN'T SCIENTOLOGISTS (RONBOTS) REALLY TALK WITH OPPONENTS

There is one fact Ronbots won't admit - it is that they are brain-washed by being enslaved, mentally and emotionally controlled and forbidden, restricted, and receive an ethics reprimand, if they talk directly with, associate with, directly communicate with any ex-scientologists that have exposed the cult for what it truly is -- a scam, a fraud and a lie. They are also forbidden to read anti-cult info. But they receive ethics (wins) points if they attack, beat-up, hit, harm, destroy, disconnect from or sue anyone that opposes the Godless cult. They are only allowed communication online where there is NO interpersonal direct contact. When they do get near you--it is to ask you for your sins. Because to them ONLY evil sinners oppose them.

Remember another fact - an SP is not evil being -- but one that turned his back on a science fiction story.

All Rights Reserved

Lake, I agree that some sites critical of the CoS have more than their share of moonbattery, but the third-party documentation you (rightly) would like to see is out there. Of course, to you, those articles probably wouldn't "count" because the media is biased or funded by psychiatrists or something.

Here are a couple of questions that your website doesn't answer to my satisfaction. Are we to believe that the founder of your religion, who lied about his military and educational record and claimed (among many other very silly things) that nuclear radiation could be washed off with a garden hose, had some kind of special insight into the nature of reality itself? Are we to believe that every single ex-Scientologist who has spoken out (and there are a LOT of them) is simply a disgruntled liar?

I've read portions of Dianetics, which I found to be pseudoscience at its worst, and I've been to a Scientology Sunday service, which I found to be juvenile and boring. If anyone here is clinging dogmatically to one side or the other, it's you.

Here is something for all scientologists blasting on and on in this page to consider:

FACT:
98% of all Founding Scientologists have left and have been declared SPs.

FACT:
Scientology has committed various crimes.

FACT:
Scientologys' paranoia about psychiatric Drugs is based upon L Ron Hubbards Appeal to American Psychiatrics Board for medication to help him with Chronic depression and Dissociative personality disorder.

FACT:
There are no scientologists in who have been in for over 25 years save for Miscavidge.

FACT:
Scientology uses a policy called"Fair game" To suppress dissent while at the same time promoting the notion of dissent by stating "Look it up and make your own decisions"

FACT:
There have been more and more people leaving than there have been people joining the cult.

FACT:
When confronted about diantetics, L Ron Switched from calling it a medical technique to calling it a religion.

FACT:
L Ron was found dead with Vitrilol An anti pychotic drug, in his system.

FACT:
Scientology destroys families and financial lives.

Refute me.
I dare you.