I'm sure that the governor's actions were the driving force behind there not being any hurricanes hitting Florida. After all, look how well the hundreds of millions of prayers beseeching god to stop Hitler BEFORE he killed 50 million people in WWII worked out.

Time to get people like this out of positions of responsibility. We do not need to have the delusional in control of the government.

Hmm Richard Little do you consider that the prayers actually stopped Hitler from taking control of the world? stop blaming God for our actions. People who commit adultery in the Oval office are now leading political figures in USA - what a nice example for our youth. I wonder a man who relies on God versus a man who is reckless in his sexual behavior which would make a better ruler DUH!

Robert I have a question for you. How exactly did you come up with hundreds of millions of prayers beseeching God to stop Hitler?

I hate to break this to you Robert but one could consider your consistent attacks on Christians to be hateful and Christian-phobic. Think about that before you go off on your next rant.

Carla - I don't think prayer has any power at all, except in the placebo effect manner of self delusion. The placebo effect has been well documented, even being applied to Atheists who knew it was a trick, although applied in a non-religious fashion. Hitler was stopped eventually (to late for any god to take meaningful credit) by godless Atheist hordes out of Russia, at a great cost in lives and suffering.

As to your second point, Let's see, a president who couldn't keep his pants up, or one who was a "man walking in the path of Jesus" who stole an election, destroyed the economy to benefit the rich and led us into a fraudulent resource war that killed 4000+ or our young and brave, let alone the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who would not have died as a result of collateral action. Gee Carla, that's a tough one - DUH!

ravensfan - I'll bet that there were hundreds of millions of prayers for god's intercession to stop Hitler, just from those who spent time in concentration camps, not even counting all the mothers of all the sons who were fighting that war. Oh, I don't hold your religion to any more criticism than I do any other religion on the planet, or less.

Ok Bob. Then your attacks against religion and God in general seem hateful and religion-phobic. When you start fearing the Man Himself then you will get somewhere. God bless.

Robert nice to know your hate is not limited to my religion. I say hate because many of your posts go well beyond criticism.

You are right Hitler was stopped, but it was by a combination of those "atheist hordes out of Russia as well as the the atheists and non-atheist from the United States and Britain. Had Hitler not been fighting them all at the same time he may well have conquered those atheist hordes.

"stole an election" Robert it's time for you to accept the truth that Bush won that election. let go of the delusional illusion that anythibng was stolen. The only thing we probably would agree on is he was a bad president.

ravensfan - First, the stink on the 2000 election is never going to go away. The removal of thousands of legal voters from mostly minority voting rolls by a Texas firm that was hired by Jeb Bush was the first crime. They were hired to remove those ineligible to vote, for a variety of reasons, but the pen they used had a very wide nib, especially in areas favorable to the Democratic candidate.

The illegal "Butterfly ballot" that caused 3000 elderly Jewish voters to cast ballots for Pat Buchanan instead of Al Gore in Palm Beach County, was even conceded by Buchanan as occurring. Then there were the goon squads led by a New York Congress-thug, John Sweeney (Now disgraced and facing prison time for felony DWI in NY and named "Congressman Kickass" by G.W.Bush), who shut down the recount throwing it to the Florida Secretary of State, the salute to bad makeup and pandering far Rightist ,Katherine Harris, whose ruling threw it to the Supreme Court, whose jurisdiction in the matter is still disputed due to the exclusion of the Florida Supreme Court's on the matter.

Secondly - If your god creature could kill every man woman and child on earth, save Noah's little group, If he could kill all the innocent first born of the Egyptians, If he could incinerate two entire cities for the crime of fornication and turn Lot's daughter into a pillar of salt for the crime of looking over her shoulder, then you are going to be hard pressed to explain why Hitler did not die early in his rush to infamy, in answer to prayers, early enough to prevent the death of 50 million of his supposedly loved children. A tiny little blood clot would have done the trick.

Lastly- Religion is archaic, moribund, a cheat, a lie and a force for evil, cloaked in the mantel of righteousness. It provides answers that are wrong, justification for hate and retards the process of dealing with our increasing problems by being a large part of the problems and is nothing but a crutch for the weak that they have actively worked to make and keep weak. If that isn't worthy of some animosity, then nothing is.

Robert, just say religion is the opiate of the masses and be done with it. Also you mean mantle Robert--from anyone else that spelling error can be overlooked, but from you- not. Also too, not to. You are TOO smart TO mess that one up. That said Robert, you are right. Bush went into the annals of history as president--from hanging chad to pregnant chad, the man's rise to stardom could not be aborted and he did cheat his way there which tells you something about democracies and elections. As the pagan Greeks would have put it, "This man was portended in the ill fated stars of America." You left out one important thing about Lot that his two daughters got him drunk and fornicated with him in order that Lot's lineage will continue. These are the three people God saved from the dust heap of Sodom and Gomorrah! Killed everyone else, but saved these three imbeciles, who hid in a cave and somehow the 2 daughters found enough alcohol to get their father intoxicated. Never mind the simple fact that not every man who is drunk is able to get it up for his daughters but Lot did! He obliged both his daughters in 24 hours, old though he was and drunk though he was! And out of this incest came the mighty line that begat King David! Glory of glories! And if God allowed it, it must be righteous for Clay. And where is this written in the Bible or why do you hate Christians so for Ravensfan! If God so loved HIS chosen people, and if millenniums later He put Jesus in Mary's uterus by immaculate conception then why not the same for Lot's two daughters? Why allow the fornication? I know why--free will. God allowed the free will of the daughters to flow forth and although this free will resulted in tainted seeds God kept HIS hands free of micromanagement. Give me a break brothers and sisters. This God an opiate of the masses?? This God NEEDS opiates.

One of Lot's daughters had a son named Moab, who became the father of the Moabites. The other had a son named Benammi, who became the father of the people of Ammon. King David came from neither. I can tell you something about incest however. After the great flood, the only people on earth were Noah and his wife and their sons and their wives. When his sons had kids, someone must have had relations with someone in the same family in order for you to be here. I wouldnt complain too much about what God has done or say that He needs drugs. Thanks.

Robert I;ve heard that fairy tale about names being delibertly deleted from the ballot. The only problem is no proof exists to support the claim. Just the whining of the radical left.

I'll agree that butterfly ballot costs Gore. However, the Democratic Party if Florida reviewed and approved the ballot for use so it was legal. If you want to balme someone for that it would be the Florida Democratic Party. I suggest you take that up with them. You seem to have a memory of convience as well. Harris followed the election laws of the state. The lower courts in Flordia agreed with her. It was the Democratic appointed Florida Supreme Court who decied to rewrite Florida election laws. Then ignored their own ruling on the completion time. The US Supreme court ruled correctly and their jurisdiction is only subject to debate by the extreme left. I'm quite sure if they had ruled the other way you wouldn't be questioning their jurisdiction in the matter. Here's a question for you. If the democrats where really interested in every vote counting why only recount three democratic controled areas? Why not the whole state? Alos why lobby to have absent tee ballots thrown out on technicalities? None of that sounds like the actions of people interested in letting all the votes count. It sounds like people interested in winning an election at any cost. Add to that that several organizations did recounts and found Bush still would have won. That's ok Robert keep on holding onto your faith that Gore really won.

I can't answer as to God's reason for anything Robert. Sorry but I'm not priviy to that level of knowledge. That being said did you ever consider that he could have been stopped early if the British and French hadn't appeased Hitler for so long? Maybe God gave us the chance to stop him early and we didn't do it? Not everything God does is as dramatic as you mentioned.

Robert again you confuse actions with the message. Try reading the New Testament sometime. All that you ranted about didn't happen because of religion. It happened because of people following the faith they professed. the fact you can't see the difference is unfortunate. Try letting go of your hate and maybe you could see it.

Don't you just love it when a superstitionist uses details from fairy-tales as their proof when making a point? Clay, you are a trip.

It happened because of people were not following the faith they professed.

I left out two very important words in my last post.

Anonymous I haven't quite figured out your deal. You do seem to enjoy stirring the pot. Despite your attempts to sound like an intellect your posts come off making you look only slightly less foolish than Robert. That's too bad becasue you are probably capable of a lot better. Pity you're wasting it acting like the class clown.

That is your story of creation Clay--not mine. I don't understand why Noah's sons having relations with their wives is the same as incest. Sounds kosher to me. You have your Bible all mixed up my man. You never answered my question about the enzymatic defect and the homosexuals--I know you can only do one thing at a time. Try to expand this biblical reach of yours. Diversify even within the Bible. Also, since Ruth was a Moabitess (Ruth:1:4) and she was David's great grandmother,
Ruth4: 13-22, David and his lineage also came from Lot, and so did Jesus another descendant of Lot through David and Moabitess Ruth--you of course would insist Jesus came straight from God and Joseph's sperm had nothing to do with his conception--then leave Jesus out of it--but David did come from Lot--tainted seed, out of the flow of alcohol, and your only answer Clay--do not question God! By the way I am not the anonymous who posted August 29, 2009, 12.34 PM. Ravensfan, as usual both parties were interested in winning an election at any cost--that said Bush was portended in the ill fated stars of America--those stars seem to be ill fated once more--we have been ill fated for a long time with these presidents. I love the ones who take frequent vacations--they leave us alone for that period of time--o what joy!

Somehow it seems the guy who campaigned for the job isn't the one we see in the job regardless of the political party.

Ah Ravensfan--I do bug you don't I? Despite my trying to look like an intellectual you say--do I detect a bit of envy there? Class clowns are necessary to keep it light and to defuse tension--as Milton put it "They too serve who only stand and wait" in my case "They too serve who only stir the pot and clown." But I have to tell you I follow all your posts and I actually enjoy them except when countered with a real argument you have a tendency to resort to the Clay brand of blubber at times. I guess intellectual taxation takes a toll even on great minds like yours. Clowning eases that burden.

You don't bug me Anonymous. Quite the opposite I find most of your posts interesting. What you call blubber I call truth. Robert being a hypocrite for spouting the same level of hate he attributes to the religious is quite obvious. What real arguement can't I counter Anonymous? Issues of faith can't be scientifically proven. If they could we'd all be believers wouldn't we. I actually don't mind your clowning just curius why you'd want to egg Robert on. He certainly needs no encouragement.

Anonymous I failed to mention I don't consider myself a great mind. Just an average Christian struggling to conduct myself as one. I don't want to come off as arrogant of full of myself.

I truly believe Robert has good points--I don't egg him on--I agree with him--at times--he's fun. So he attacks the religious--he's an equal opportunity anti-religion zealot--but what would we do without one? He is a valuable asset. Without him we'd all drown in a Titanic of superstition and fairy tales, with a bucket in one hand and a cup in the other to stem the tide--his own analogy. I know what you would say Ravensfan--He IS THE TIDE. But it is not from hate that Robert speaks--it is from the impatience of a man ahead of his times. He is here to dispel the God talk--and when he really achieves this goal he will vanquish the enemy but he will also shrivel and die for want of one. What you don't like Ravensfan is that I am giving credence to Robert's tantrums. But that's the way the cookie crumbles Ravensfan--the religious cookie I mean--every anti-religion cookie will find another one to support him--you are right--Robert has no way to prove God does does not exist--told him so myself--but he can prove that all this biblical mumbo jumbo is being spouted without much study of the Bible--that the Christians know the Bible least of all. That is a truth that never ceases to astound.

Hi Anon. Even if David came from Lot, who cares? The point I was making about Noah's sons was that who did their kids mate with to have you eventually? Their cousins. No one else was on earth. And that isnt Kosher. I have never known a Jewish person who committed incest, nor met a Jewish person on welfare. I have read research that was conducted on gays showing that the lower enzyme level was found. I do not have the bible all mixed up. If David came from Lot, fine. You came from mating cousins, eventually. And dont argue with God. If He didnt allow it, you wouldnt be here. Thanks.

Anonymous I am not bothered by anything Robert or you say. It's a free country and Robert and you have a right to your opinions. As for Robert he will never dispel all the God talk so you need not worry about him having no one to argue with. I disgaree on the hate issue. Some of his posts go off like a man possessed so there is an element of hate there. You can deny it if you like but you're only fooling yourself. I do wonder why someone like him and you spend so much time on a blog based on faith. You are quite correct in your comment on Christians not knowing the Bible. I don't know it as well as I should myself particularly the Old Testament.

Peace & Prosperity
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Agha Dilbar

My Open Letter (Blog) has been sent Five Lak (500000) to International Community for the welfare of Humanity till today. I Agha Dilbar authorize Newspapers, Magazines, Internet, to Publish and Radio, T.V. Channels to broadcast this letter all round the World.
Website: http://aghadilbar.webs.com

Dear President Barrack Obama
the Great Leader of the World
I Agha Dilbar have sent Mr. President 100 registered research Letters (1000 new ideas to develop America and to Change the World for Peace and Prosperity)
through Embassy of USA Islamabad till today and also direct sent these registered Letters to Whitehouse Washington DC 20500.These letters have been written on the guidelines of CHANGE WE NEED. And these letters are about the Common Men Problems of respected American Peoples and their Solutions. To end, Economic Recession, Unemployment and to Finish War, all round the World for Peace and Prosperity. In these letters I have sent one thousand new scientific Planning /Suggestions, about every walk of life for Peace through Friendship Progress and Prosperity all over the World.
My dear Barack Obama, the great leader of the world, my friend, my brother, provide an opportunity to Agha Dilbar to pay an official visit to America, that we two brothers sit together and by halting this horrible war.
In this war 1-million people have died from 9/11 till today, if this war continues, it will become the 111- World War.200-Million people would die, if 111-World War is triggered) can take out 6.5 billion people of the World from abyss of destruction and then put them on the road to Progress and Prosperity.
Dear President Barrack Obama considers, from 9/11 till today, America has conducted many war operations in connection with War on Terror, resulting the circle of war has spread hundred times. Millions innocent persons have died.
In this war. Many More have been rendered homeless. One Lak (10000) war affected youth joined the army of Al-Qaida and Talban by the help of anti American countries have begun gorilla war in a horrible manner. It is the result of wrong war strategy. I Agha Dilbar desire to solve all above mentioned problems in a meeting with President Barrack Obama by adopting new revolutionary planning by bringing an end to present gorilla war in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. In the result the World can enter in a peaceful, advanced and progressive world, May it be so.
I Agha Dilbar have a new War Strategy to achieve success through Table Talk between Talban, Pakistan and American Govts. 90% of Talban that are fighting against Pak Army belong from Swat and Tribal Areas of NWFP. I can provide America all realistic facts in such manner that their implementation could convert these Talban into Patriotic Citizens of Pakistan.
In this War Strategy Pakistan Gov will never send his Heavy Artillery, Tanks, Cannons and Air craft in war. In this way 5-million persons will never Displaced. In the end Talban by their will handover, their Weapons to Pakistan Gov, they will come to Table Talk and Suicide Bombing will come to an end in Pakistan. Through this War Strategy Pakistani and American Govts can save expenses on war. Through this planning American and Pakistani Govts can utilize their saving on war budgets for development of Schools, Hospitals, Colonies, Markets, Roads, Bridges, Dams, Canals of Swat and Tribal Areas of NWFP that are war affected.
On account of present war strategy, Billion Dollars are being wasted yearly.
This war can cause Fall of America instead of continuation of war; my best suggestion for America must keep his Supper Power on the World and should conquer the World instead of war, but by his No-1 scientific technology spending on agriculture, industry, trade, education, scientific development and tourism, all round the World. Making an end to Economic Crisis in America.
A new Global Package is being offered for your kind honor. America will have to make complete and final announcement that in future all Multinational American Companies to get free land on 20-years lease and will set up under the BOOT agreement (in undeveloped and poor countries) factories, mills five star hotels, schools, colleges, universities, hospitals, air companies, shipping companies, latest railway, bus transport and steel mills. All these companies will be bound to handover without any cost to under developed and poor countries well as their machinery and transport after 20-yaars.
A new suggestion in connection with Global Peace is offered that in return of export American Agriculture and Industrial Products, will give his 50% prophet to the exporting countries and utilize as Aid on the development of agriculture, industry, trade, education and tourism. This suggestion, making an end to American Economic Crisis and get full support to enhance his Foreign Public Relation
. May it be so?
To make successful American Foreign Policy on Global Level the following planning is put before:
a) America will have to provide free scholar ships at least to ten top master students (in each country) of medical and science in underdeveloped and poor countries of the world.
b) Highly educated and well trained one hundred cultural groups (each group contains 100 persons) will have to arrange one hundred cultural shows for three months in big cities of underdeveloped and poor countries.
c) America will have to arrange exhibitions through his Embassies for his latest products, in the underdeveloped and poor countries .All these mentioned above industrial exhibitions will be arranged continuously for two months. In the above mentioned exhibitions present products will be sold except export order booking. In mentioned above exhibitions, American Cultural Programs will have to arrange and American Traditional Dishes will be kept for sale. In these exhibitions American Tourism Stalls will also be set of.
Following rules and regulations will be undertaken for the progress and prosperity of American students.
a) Among metric, Fsc, Bsc, (engineering).Mbbs, Llb, Ca and diploma holders in all institutions, all those receiving degrees at the state level, ten each from girls and boys by cash prizes will be announced on behalf of the gov during invitation on lunch.
b) For above mentioned top ten intelligent students boys and girls each, tours for different historical and healthy sites will be arranged free of cast.
c) Sport Talent Schools of international level will be set up over the country at the district level, in which students of extra-ordinary sports talent taught from class one to Fsc level.
d) American states gov will announce free transport, free medical facilities and free lunch during education to all school, college and university students.

Minimize the aforesaid differences, which I will deliver to president
the increasing distress and hatred between the Muslim world and America is the major cause of weak relationship on public and government level.
As a sincere friend I have practical suggestions to Barack Obama in my official visit to America.
I request the government of America to allow me to describe (first of all my briefing with president’s advisors). My one thousand plans & ideas for changing the world before one to one meeting with the president Barack obama.thanks
Today we are presenting a new planning in America for the rapid progress in industry.

American government will allow to 50% relief in the following things. Petrol, dizel, electricity,
gas and water bills

For the establishment of new industries in industrial zone American government will allow 25%relief in taxes .

1) Sugar mills, textile mills, Garment Industry
2)Shoes tire tube factory.

3) Milk powder industry, tin packs industry,ornament industry, carpet industry.
4) Frozen fish, chicken beef, and meat industry.
6) Dairy forming, poultry forming, fish forming, cattle forming, fruit forming.
7) Vegetable forming biscuit sweet industry hotel industry.
8) Electronic industry, sanitary industry paint industry.
9) Furniture industry.
10) Steel mill industry.
11) Engine industry.
12) Aero plane industry and shipping industry.
13) Computer and mobile industry.
14) Medicine industry fertilizer industry and insecticide industry.
15) Car, bus truck loader, harvester industry.

I Agha Dilbar have sent Ten Million research Peace Letters to International Community from 9/11 incident till today. This letter is my Great Peace Mission plan which is continued. Present Global Economic Crisis is the result of War on Terror. This Crisis if further accelerates could initiate a 111-World War. Please hear my Voice of Truth; I can save the World, for my Great Peace Mission, with the help of President Barrack Obama, Peace and Prosperity.
The Government of America will announce to provide free home facility to employees after 20 year of service as per following rules and regulations.

1. For providing free home facility to their employees after retirement the government will deduct 2 ½% amounts for their monthly salaries.
2. The government of America will deduct 2 ½% amounts of salaries to the employee and will deposit the same in government treasury which shall be paid to the housing company on monthly basis.
3. The housing company shall provide beautiful home to the government or non government employee after 20 year of service.
4. The people not acquiring home after 20 year of service shall be paid in whole by deducted total amount from their salaries during their employment.
Mr. Barack Obama you are not only the Leader of America, you are Great Leader of the World. In this connection I am waiting for your Email response, dated 2.10.2009.
Please Confirm.
Thank you, God blesses you and God bless America.
Agha Dilbar (founder)
International Revolution Movement
64-neelum block ait Lahore (Pakistan)
Phone: 0092427830084
Cell 03224628349
Email aghadilbar4@gmail.com
Website http://aghadilbar.webs.com/
This Open Letter has been sent Five Lak (500000) to International Community for the welfare of Humanity till today. I Agha Dilbar authorize Newspapers, Magazines, Internet, to Publish and Radio, T.V. Channels to broadcast this letter all round the World
It has been extraordinary to read and hear, some of the things I did my decision alone by the voice of God, who called me in my heart.
Peace through friendship progress and prosperity
Thanks
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