Diane Ravitch's change of heart
Diane Ravitch, one of America's most influential education scholars, was in town yesterday afternoon and spoke to a couple hundred people in Baltimore, some of whom have spent as many decades thinking about education as she has.
The former No Child Left Behind cheerleader released a book several months ago called The Death and Life of the Great American School System: How Testing and Choice Are Undermining Education.
In the book, she details her change of heart over school reform in America, saying that accountability and charter schools have not worked. After a decade of espousing the cause of the conservatives who said choice and testing were the key to closing the achievement gap and making schools work for all students, she has decided she was very wrong.
Yesterday, she said that studies have shown that while some charter schools are working well, overall students do no better in charters than regular public schools. She believes that charters have focused attention away from resolving the most vexing problems in public education.
And while she supports testing students, she says the results are now being used to punish teachers, principals and students. Rather, she said, we should be using poor test scores for a school or a student to diagnose a problem and then using all our energy to zero in on fixing it rather than punishing the offenders.
"There have been no results from this eight-year investment in tests," she said. While she acknowledges that National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) test scores have risen over the eight years, she says they rose faster during other time periods. (Although I might add the caveat here that I am not sure we have enough research to document why test scores rose in the 1970s and 1980s faster than between 2002 and 2010.)
She's against much of the core of teacher reforms now being proposed across the country, including linking teacher evaluations to test scores.






Comments
As a teacher since 1987 and a Library Media Specialist in MD since 1997, I am concerned for the changes in the teacher evaluation criteria that the MSDE approved in order to be competitive for the federal Race to the Top grant.
While I agree that our main goal as educators is to raise student achievement, I do not agree that the only or even the best way to measure this is by standardized testing. I understand that in these data-driven times that is easy to fall back on test scores to measure achievement, but just because it is expedient doesn’t mean it gives an accurate picture of a student’s progress or a teacher’s competence or success with students.
One of my main concerns about adopting the use of test scores to evaluate teachers is how this can possibly applied fairly to all the many different kinds of teachers our schools employ.
How can test scores be used to judge me, a Library Media Specialist? Since I work in an elementary school, I see over 500 students in six different grades all for 50 minutes a week. What percentage of input and influence do I have over all of those students test scores? Does 30% of the work I do relate to the skills they need to perform well on standardized tests? Should it? Is scoring proficient on the MSA more important to a student’s future success than a love of books, information and reading? More important than being able to use a library, databases, the internet, presentation software?
What about LMS in middle and high schools that do not have a fixed schedule of classes? What percentage of their competence should be based on test scores for students who may not have been taught by them or even used their school’s library unless brought in by their teacher?
I could go on with examples for other special area teachers, special educators, department chairs with limited teaching duties, mentors and nurses – all covered by the same Master Agreement as classroom teachers. Is there a single formula that can include test scores for all of them? I would say, “NO!”
Aren’t those intangibles some of the things you remember and cherish about your time as a student? Do you wish you could repeat all the tests you took to show how much you learned in school or would you rather put on that 6th grade play again, win the three-legged race at field day, participate in a science fair or go on a field trip again?
Think about what lessons you learned as a student and how many of them are able to be tested by filling in the bubbles on a answer sheet and then decide how to evaluate teachers and their impact on student learning and achievment.
Posted by: One Disappointed Librarian | May 28, 2010 1:45 PM
In the past few years, I have become very interested in education reform. First, I had a brief experience teaching English at Woodlawn High school. Now, I teach developmental reading and writing at a community college. The classes I teach are designed to help students who have graduated from high school but are not college-ready.
Way too many students are being awarded high school diplomas when their skills are at a middle school level. I didn't realize the gravity of the problem until I started teaching these unprepared college students.
Diane Ravitch's book is a must-read. I just finished reading her book today. The book is packed full of information; she definitely knows her field. The book is extremely informative and is a very interesting read. The next book on education I plan to read is called The Flat World and Education, by Linda Darling-Hammond. She is another scholar who sees the major flaws of our test-driven school system.
I agree with everything Diane Ravitch writes about, with the exception of national teaching standards. She feels that the exact books of literature that should be taught should be listed in the national standards, and I'm not sure I agree with that.
Posted by: Laura | May 28, 2010 4:43 PM
As a teacher with ten years' experience, I must agree with both Diane Ravitch and the 'disappointed librarian' above. Baltimore County is a prime example of a school system which values data for data's sake, and while there are some benefits to be had in using data to target problems and devise solutions, there is NO gain to using data for punitive purposes.
Data needs to be precise and quantifiable, and needs to show valid results that are attributable to the factors being analyzed. In its hurry to compete for "Race to the Top" funds, how does the county propose to ensure that each and every teacher is analyzed solely on his/her own accomplishments? They intend to use standardized test scores and MSA test results. Let me supply some examples of the impossibility of rating individual teachers fairly based primarily on student test results. I gave a math test this week. Many students earned a great score. However, one student failed because he could not sustain his attention on the test, even with my constant help. Am I to be rated on his performance? I have another student who has failed each and every reading theme test this year. She is a native Spanish speaker who has made enormous progress this year with English grammar and vocabulary, but who is not yet proficient enough in English to be successful on a standardized test. Is it fair for me to be rated on her test scores... or should it be noted that she gained a year and a half's worth of reading skills in ten months, due to my efforts to work with her one-on-one? I have another student: his mother allows him to stay up until 2 a.m. watching TV, his father takes him to pro-wrestling events on school nights, and when the student was in trouble for using foul language at school and imitating pole-dancing in the cafeteria, the student explained that he learned it all watching "naked people movies" with his father and uncle. This particular student rarely completes any written work, has no parental support, makes absolutely no effort to learn, and yet I never give up. I work with him constantly, to motivate him to try just a little harder, to build on his minimal successes. Am I to be rated on his failures on tests? Is it my responsibilty that he sleeps on his desk, because he watches TV all night? Am I to blame that his parents show no concern over his grades, ignore all school requests for consequences at home, and use school as a free babysitiing service? I really don't think so. Please consider the big picture: Do we want qualified teachers who care about student progress and find numerous ways to support students academically and behaviorally? Of course. Do we want repercussions for inept, ineffective teachers? Yes, sure, make the tenure requirements longer and more comprehensive. But do we want to punish teachers for factors which are out of the realm of their personal control, such as a student's low attandance, chronic beahvior issues, undiagnosed learning or attentional issues, lack of meaningful parent support? I could go on indefinitely. There are myriad reasons why students underachieve. Who had the bright idea that it is 100% teacher responsibility? Where has parental responsibility gone? What about student responsibility? Let me take this just one step further, if you will. Suppose these reforms are passed. What number of teachers will be found wholly accountable for unsatisfactory student progress on testing data? At what point do we then find principals accountable for lacking teachers who enable high test scores? At at what further point do we find the Area Superintendants responsible for hiring principals who oversee these teachers? At what point does Dr. Hairston become accountable for all of these school personnel? Or Nancy Grasmick? The answer is simply: Never. They will ride on our coattails as long as the data makes them happy. Well, watch out those of you in ivory towers. Teachers are not going to stand for this nonsense. Maryland schools are not going to stand a chance, when qualified teachers leave en masse for other states or other careers.
Posted by: disgusted second grade teacher | May 28, 2010 5:47 PM
Her book and her speech run counter to much of the reform efforts in urban areas and should be required reading for all parents. She notes that the push back has to come rom the grassroots because politician are all in step with what is being pushed by large foundations.
This brand of reform does have direct links to testing fraud(not cheating) and Montgomery Ctys push back to RTTT.
I also find her concept about the misapplication of charter reform right on point.
Posted by: OverTheTop | May 29, 2010 8:18 AM
Just three qustions...Will 30% of administrators' salary be based on student achievement? Will 30% of MSDE leadership salary be based on student achievenment? Shouldn't educational LEADERS will held to the same salary determinant as the classroom teachers?
Posted by: Katrina Turner | May 29, 2010 9:42 AM
I do not believe that before this book came out there were no red flags as to the many children that go across the stage in ES/MS and HS who are reading below 2 grade levels in most cases. It is ridiculous to me that these so called educators who passed their own students who they knew were not ready to go to the next grade are in awe of this fact. As a parent who volunteered in the system and who hear our children speak there is no way that they have the level of education that they are in the grade for. Stop being in denial and be honest with yourself , your students and their parents as to why a child should not go on to the next grade level. It does more harm then good as we all can see from our "Children of Tomorrow-Today"
Posted by: calamity | May 30, 2010 12:52 PM
I just have to say that basing teacher salary on student test performance will result in teaching to the test. From experience I know that students who receive that kind of teaching have a hard time thinking outside of the box. As a music teacher going into that situation, I was amazed at what students simply could not do, because they were so programmed to learn a certain way.
Teaching to the test will not help us to educate future leaders and scientists who can create cures, just people who can do what has always been done, and what someone else thinks is best for them.
Posted by: Sara | May 30, 2010 3:43 PM
We are supposed to be data based when initiating new teaching techniques, etc... but the data is not supporting all the efforts, time, and money spent by the schools in the past 10 years. Plus, everything is being put on the front line teachers to show results. What are the repercussions for administrators? Trainers? Support staff? Also, what about the parents? We could have the best teachers, best books, nicest buildings, but if the parents are not invested in education, the children will not be invested in education either. We need to stop moving things around in the same box and expecting deep and long reaching results. We need to look out of the box for more community and family investment and make this investment an postivie experience for all.
Posted by: Jen | June 1, 2010 10:03 AM
I attended one of the meetings with a representative from MSDE regarding the "proposed" changes to teacher evaluation. What was very noteworthy was the many times the representative talked about the $250 million the state would get from the federal government.
As a teacher, it confounds me that people scream about the "priviledges" teachers have: summer "off", pension plan, health care etc. I almost never hear about the excesses of professional athletes, college coaches and Hollywood entertainers.
Education reform must first begin with a shift in thinking. Holding teachers "accountable" implies that we are not now. On behalf of all teachers, I resent that! Let's begin with an appreciation of what teachers accomplish. Let's start listening to teachers and not the glorified experts.
Just before the Battle for Quebec during the French and Indian War, a low level French officer noted that there was a virtually unprotected area in which a British army could possibly utilise. When he reported his findings, the great General Montcalm dismissed his logic. What could he possibly know? The British General Wolfe also spotted the area and the rest is history, so to speak.
Our education system is under attack and many of the low level teachers have great ideas that are being dismissed. The rest will be history, comrade.
Posted by: Boris | June 1, 2010 2:13 PM
Face the facts: Test scores have gone up in Maryland because the tests are easier to pass than they were when the HSA first came out. There are no more critical response questions on the HSA because students bombed them. And us teachers have learned to teach the kids exactly what they need to know to pass the test, and forget the rest (interesting, important-doesn't matter, it's not on the test!). The passing score seems high, but no one can even tell us what it means. Does a 400 on the biology HSA mean anything? What percentage of the test is actually correct to get that score? 70%, 50%, 30%?
Posted by: Carole | June 1, 2010 4:23 PM
When is the focus going to be put on the parents? Are you telling me a teacher is going to be evaluated based on his/her students' test scores? Qualified teachers will avoid the most troubled schools. Teachers can't stop little Suzie's dad from physically abusing little Suzie's mom the night before the MSA test!!!! More schools will cheat, just like that school in the city. please, some sanity.
Posted by: Rob | June 1, 2010 4:37 PM
Current school reform ideas are absolutely awful. I like the idea of the leaders' salaries taking a hit... ha!
@calamity- Most people don't consider this, but some students will not learn more by repeating a grade. Most will simply be bored with the same material, especially if reading is their only weakness. Some of those students may excel in math and science and should not be held back just because of their reading. Maybe if the schools taught kids how to read past the sixth grade, we'd experience more success. Besides, no one is really perfect. I might make a mistake in my typing as easily as you did by not writing the verb 'hears' to match the subject of the sentence or by writing then instead of than. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have passed your English class in high school. I appreciate your volunteerism, but please do not make these judgments about teachers passing kids along if you've never been behind closed doors with a student support team trying to make that decision.
Posted by: BmoreEduc8r | June 1, 2010 10:33 PM
@Rob I completely agree that the parents need to be held accountable for their children's education. In regards to linking test scores to teacher pay, I heard a teacher say, "Ok...Let ME pick the students that'll be in my class." If students are coming from troubled homes, a teacher can only do so much. If a child isn't eating properly, isn't getting enough sleep, or is dealing with too many stressful situations, his or her test scores are probably going to reflect those problems. How is it fair to put all of those home experiences on a teacher?
If teachers are responsible for test scores, it is only fair to make parents responsible as well. Guardians should be required to meet regularly with teachers and staff if their child's test scores are consistently low. Then they can work together to figure out how to best meet the needs of the child.
Posted by: Laura | June 2, 2010 7:32 PM
BmoreEduc8r --I am not saying that a child should fail the whole grade because of a small error in a class, what I am saying is that when you see that a child cannot spell, read, or do math then that child should not be allowed to pass. I used reading as the basis because without the ability to read, how then can a child do math or science or any other area of education? All aspects are shown on a report card and there is no way that a child who is failing in their classes should be passing to the next grade. Also, when a child is passed to the next grade level and does not comprehend the work put in front of them then they will still be bored in that class and the process will continue from grade to grade until the child just stops coming to school. Why should we allow this to happen when we can help the child to learn the work if they have to repeat the grade instead of just getting them out of their hair. Also, I have taught in the school system and I have worked very hard to get those children who were having trouble with their reading and math to get a better understanding by taking the time to work with them. If some (not all) teachers would take a little extra time with that child who is having problems instead of ignoring them and then passing them along for the next teacher, we would not even be having this discussion. And although teachers are not getting paid much, it used to be that you became a teacher for the love of teaching and to see others achieve what you achieved. What is so wrong with that? I have 3 children who have had good and bad teachers but the bottom line is that all these teachers taught the childen to understand the work and though they may have been hard on them, what the child learns represents what the teacher teaches. And in the real world parents would be the stronghold in a child's education, in this day and time, some of our children's only positive interaction is with the teacher(s) that they see everyday and the only one who they feel either cares if they have an education or not.
Posted by: calamity | June 3, 2010 10:28 AM
I have to chuckle when I see so many teachers talk about holding parents accountable. I think all of you should join forces and start a charter school in one of the few middle class neighborhoods in Baltimore City. Then let’s put your theory to test and see if you can withstand the scrutiny of involved parents.
Yes parents are accountable but what you see is the result of a decades long campaign to shut them out. One of two will get through but most have been defeated by the Teflon armor wore by too many teachers that makes their misdeeds slide away. One of the themes Diane Ravitch states is that reform must come from the bottom up and right now parents have been put at the bottom with politicians and educators fighting amongst themselves.
Posted by: OverTheTop | June 3, 2010 1:02 PM
Could someone explain what it means to hold parents accountable in a way that doesn't punish children for their parents' mistakes?
Posted by: Simon | June 3, 2010 5:52 PM
Funny - my kids go to a private school where the instruction is horrible and the teachers are AWFUL! My wife and I are teachers so we know that its our job to teach them - they are there because the climate and culture in our public school is shameful. Most of the teachers are rookies, rejects from the public system or retirees that are happy to combine the meager archdiocese pay with their retirement cash as they babysit - literally - my son's langauge arts teacher sits all day! What's interesting is that their standardized test scores are great.
Hmmm - maybe I should get a 30% pay raise since I taught my kid writing, science and math???
The point is that student performance is a function of many factors - the wonks at the state would lead you to believe that school inprovement is all about teachers - WRONG!
Lets get smart - small classes, engaging instruction - THE END!
Posted by: realteacher | June 3, 2010 6:20 PM
@ Over the Top-I don't know who you know or where you work but this teacher and mother of four has NEVER tried to shut out any parents in Baltimore City. Nor have the vast majority of teachers I am privledged to work with. We write, email, call, go to houses, send registered mail, ask for volunteers, have breakfasts, lunches, dinners, desserts, parties, open houses, programs, chats, trips, performances, and much more. We smile, are warm, welcoming, grateful, and non-threatening. We understand the prior negative school experiences and try to make up for that. We grovel, beg, invite,and plead. In the end we get minimal parent buy-in. Please, instead of attacking teachers, give me a suggestion I have not thought of. I'm getting an award for my efforts, but they really have not been successful. No school ever had to do any of this to get me to go to school for my child. I had the kid. I raise the kid. Pretty straight forward.
Posted by: wise educator | June 4, 2010 10:16 PM
@realteacher
I'm slightly confused by your post. Teacher quality either can make a big difference or it doesn't matter that much. For most of what you write, it seems you argue that teacher quality doesn't make a difference (your child's private school has bad teachers and good scores, you're against linking teacher compensation to student performance, you say that other factors are involved). Then, in the last sentence, you say that what's really needed is small classes (in the control of the principal to some degree) and engaging instruction (totally in the control of the teacher). If having engaging lessons is the most important thing we should be focusing on, then it would seem that teacher quality should actually make a HUGE difference. Or did I read your post wrong?
I'd be interested in reading a clarification of your thoughts. Also, thank you for at least proposing specific areas of suggested focus, something too many people on this blog fail to do.
Posted by: Simon | June 7, 2010 12:30 PM
@Simon - thanks for your post. Teachers do make a difference; however, many other factors that go beyond the locus of control of the teacher play a huge role in test scores. It is simply not fair or productive to pin test scores on the teacher. Class size is NOT in the control of the principal. Staffing numbers come from central offices. Most BCPS (county) classes exceed 30 students. Those students have diverse needs that challenge the best educators. Small classes work - even with a marginal teacher. ALL the research supports this. Even marginal teachers can develop engaging lessons when not burdened with grading 150 pieces of work, dealing with 150 sets of parents, logging 150 sets of data, tracking 50 IEP's .... you get the picture.
My wife works in a restaurant where she routinely sees school-aged children out with parents past 11 pm on school nights - are those kids going to perform on the next benchmark? Is that the teacher's fault? What can schools do when parents drop the ball. Educate the parents?? Good luck with that...
The private school has small classes, marginal teachers and invested (literally) parents. And - great test scores! I have worked in BCPS schools with AMAZING teachers, big classes, lame administrators and checked out parents - despite teacher skill and dedication, scores are the pits.
Posted by: realteacher | June 8, 2010 10:57 PM
@realteacher
Thanks for the response. In Baltimore City, principals have slightly more control over class size. Funding is determined on a per student basis (with extra allowances for students with IEPs). Enrollment is projected and budget is projected, and with that, principals have the freedom to make staffing decisions (although obviously there are some limitations, of course).
I agree that no teacher has total control over his or her students' success. However, I don't think that means we should scrap holding teachers accountable for student achievement altogether. Using a growth model, using multiple assessments, and making student achievement only a part of teacher evaluations can all help get a better, more complete picture of the actual effect teachers are having on student learning.
I think we start to head down a dangerous road when we put too much blame on parents (and realteacher, I'm speaking generally now, not about your comments in particular). We risk limiting what we think students and teachers are capable of and our low expectations will turn into self-fulfilling low achievement. There are teachers out there who are doing great things for students with lousy parents, and if they can do it, then others can do it, too. We need to learn what those excellent teachers are doing and help others do the same thing. Once we accept that a students' parents absolutely determine their limitations, we have accepted that it's ok for some kids to fail.
Posted by: Simon | June 10, 2010 6:46 PM