I'm curious to see what % of that class actually attends a 4 year university, and what % of them graduate from a 4 year university.

This is great to hear. I'd like to know how many of the starting freshmen ( who enrolled 4 years ago) made it to graduation and were accepted. One of the perks of a charter school is that students who get in the way of instruction are removed along the way and this can be a significant number especially in a challenging district. I'd like to see this statistic as it would be a more accurate assessment of the school rather than just looking at the senior class.

Why isn't this happening? Unions? Money? And yes, I am a union member. I think the Kipp School just had a victory.

Could someone tell me about the admission policy for all BCPSS middle and high school? Regular schools, charters,magnets,exclusive test-in schools,composite schools etc. There are as many answers as people you ask.

My guess--money.

Maybe it is and you just don't know. Give B-D-J and couple of years and you may see the same sort of results. The real question is ... how much did this cost and can it be replicated?

In Baltimore City, most schools don't even have enough money to put a teacher in each classroom or purchase textbooks, let alone increase the length of the school day. FSF has done this. At my school, mentors and afterschool programs were the first things to be cut. And Why is the sun not repoorting on the fact that the entire school sysystem is under a spending freeze.

John-John:

We only have a few charter high schools in Baltimore. They haven't been around for very long.

Also, I'd check the state law in Illinois and compare it to Maryland. There are likely major differences (funding, union, autonomy, etc.)

And we have some non-charter HS doing great things. ACCE is an Innovation HS. They put around 90% of their graduates into colleges.

Also, @realteacher, charters in Baltimore City play by the EXACT SAME RULES as other public high schools in terms of "kicking kids out".

I visited this school last week and was so impressed by the confidence of these young men. They walk with pride and are dedicated to being the best they can be. It is wonderful to see such a thing with young men today.

This isn't happening here yet because so far people are trying different instructional models. Urban Prep Academy seems to be gambling on two things: literacy and college counseling. A lot of college freshmen fall off because their math levels aren't high enough, so they could get stung there, but the counseling sounds like a great idea. Most successful schools, in the end, don't succeed because of a theme or gimmick, but because of a tight plan implemented by driven people. That's the "magic."

And no, Baltimore isn't being deprived of a great instructional model because of unions.

@Realteacher:
Public charter schools removing students is not a "perk." It reinforces a two-tiered system where only successful students get attention and it allows public charters to dump challenging students on the traditional publics who aren't allowed to reject them. Charters won't be a significant reform until they take the challenging students as much as the high-achievers and bring both groups to success.

@ HP - keeping repeating that and one day you may actually believe it.

The main purpose of charters is to establish new schools. How many traditional school "require" a ceratin number of volunteer hours? How many require "voluntary donations"? None, it illegal. So the rules are different.

No Charter school REQUIRES volunteer hours or donations. Lots of schools encourage volunteer hours or have an expectation of it with the reasoning that the parents involved in the school is a major factor in the success of the school. We also do a lot of fundraising with the traditional selling of pizzas, wrapping paper, etc but we also do a campaign for donations from the community, families, staff, etc. It is NOT REQUIRED! No record is kept of which family gave and how much except to give them a letter acknowledging their donation for tax purposes.

I'm honestly pretty sick of all the rumors and wrong information spread about charter schools. Schools are very transparent about their practices, policies and expectations. All you have to do is attend and information session or call and ask. We are here to provide the best education possible for the students. Everything we do is for the children and keeping their well being in mind. People need to see that and not just look for things to pick on. Especially when your information is wrong.

@an actual charter school - Actually, there ARE charter schools that require volunteer hours. I can't speak for BCPSS, but here is a direct quote from Gateway Charter in FL: "Gateway Charter School requires families to volunteer their time during the school year. Families are required to volunteer 20 hours for the first child and 10 hours for each additional child attending Gateway Charter School." A quick Google search turned up many other charters with such a policy.

@an actual charter school - Just found this on the website for Patterson Park Public Charter: "School philosophy on parent involvement: Patterson Park Public embraces the research that shows that students with families that are involved in their education perform better in school. All families choosing to enroll at Patterson Park Public commit to 15 or 30 volunteer hours (depending upon whether it is a single or dual parent family) per school year. "

@Hamilton Parent,

In Baltimore the talk about charter high schools is BS. In many cases ACCE and others (BFA comes to mind) send their potential drop outs away. I teach in a "neighborhood" school and I've got a few former ACCE and BFA students and they were "asked" to leave. Then when they drop out, the current school takes the hit.

It's a game, and ACCE, city wides and the smaller schools play it well in Bmore. Threats to "send them to their zone school" are commonplace, and it happens.

It doesn't completly negate the postive things they all do, just wanted to put it in perspective. I hear their are some traditional schools strarting to work miricles right now.

From BDJ parent contract:

"Attend all teacher conferences during the school year. I (we) understand that if I (we) do not attend
a conference, I (we) will be held in violation of this contract, and my son may be banned from further
attendance until I (we) meet with the principal and my son’s advisor.

Schedule vacations, routine doctor’s appointments, dentist visits, and any other nonemergency obligations in order to avoid absence from the school year or summer camp. Unexcused absences could
result in my son being banned from attendance until I (we) meet with the principal, and repeated absence
from the regular school year or the summer program could result in my (our) being found in violation of
this contract.

I (we) agree to voluntarily contribute twenty ($20.00) dollars a month activity fee towards special
programs, field trips and activities associated with the schools expanded program.

Failure to support your son’s education at the Academy in the ways prescribed above will be taken as unwillingness to support the school in its efforts to educate your son."

All of this are illegal for a "regular"school

From the Green School:

"GSB tracks your service hours for many reporting purposes. We have grants that require such information, we like to show and track parent and community involvement in the school, and we like to analyze the data to see where our support lies."

From City Neighbors:

"Please check the Family Participation Guide in the handbook to determine how you can fulfill your commitment of 40 hours per year."

Need I go on....

@OTT
I don't have the student handbooks with me from the two non-charter schools that my kids attend, but there is about the same sort of promises and commitments in those contracts. These handbooks have a signature sheet that must be signed by both the parent and the kid for them to attend. Do you think anyone has been kicked out of a school for not meeting one of the minor promises (can't miss school for a doctor's appointment for example) in a student handbook? The point of these "contracts" is not so that a child can be kicked out of school, but so you know that they take attendance seriously.

Let's take your quote from the Green School. I'm pretty sure that a similar line in the PTA contract exists in the non-charter schools we attend. Something on the order of "Our school counts on parent volunteers and fundraising by the PTA to support all the great opportunities our school gives your kids." Neither statement is particularly threatening, and I'll bet volunteer rates between the two schools are pretty similar.

Everyone on this board says you need to hold parents responsible, you need to force good parenting etc. A charter school starts to make these requests (with no teeth for non-compliance) and you call foul.

@BS Catcher
Through this board and 2nd hand reports from SFC meetings it seems to be common knowledge that City Wides can no longer kick kids out if they do not meet academic requirements. This is contrary to what is signed in the student handbook, but seems to be common knowledge for those "in the know". If a kid is obviously a bad fit and can't keep up with school work, they might be advised that another school (or program) might serve them better. This seems like an obvious truth to me. That does not mean they are kicked out of the school.

@ ap - If I remember correctly the sign-off fo the systemic student handbook is to acknownlegde that the parent has read and recieved the handbook. Nothing happens to the student if it is not returned. These "contracts" must be signed or the student is not admitted.

And students have been advised to leave some of the charters for non-academic reasons.

The statement about the Green School is that they "track: hours. No regular schools does that for the parents.

And yes parental involvement is important. Some parents are going to do it reguardless so these requirement don't maen much. But if these are "requirements" then you will see a pooling of involved parents at these schools and the students that may need there help the most are left out.

There are a good number of foster homes in Baltimore. So since these children don't live with parents who would make such a committment does that mean that they are excluded from enrolling in these schools?

@OTT -
I'm kind of a stickler on reading what I sign and what I signed said I discussed this with my child and we (because both of us had to sign) agree to abide by these rules. I'm not sure there was any enforcement for turning in these signature sheets, but it was mandatory and failing grades were entered into grade books if the signature sheet was turned in late.

You say no regular school tracks parent involvement? I'm sure that the reason every report card conference or back to school night has sign in sheets is because schools are trying to get metrics on parent involvement. I can't find the document, but I recall that one of the ways a principal and a school would be judged successful would be by having actively involved parents. Certainly that required some sort of metric. There's a whole budget devoted to getting parents more involved. Don't you think someone is measuring something to prove that the money was well spent?

I don't know much about foster homes, but are you saying that kids in foster homes can never have representation at an IEP meeting? That takes a person standing up for you - what charter schools are looking for. Seems like that would be begging for a lawsuit. I'd be way more concerned about that then charter school attendance.

Schools do track parent and community volunteer hours in a number of ways. All visitors sign in and out of schools and state the reason for their visit. Volunteer hours are logged by those who work with the volunteer. Volunteers are honored and recognized at events. Most recently, the Family and Community Engagement Office/Committee has instituted an online method for volunteering, being matched to a volunteer opportunity, and signing in and out each visit thus enabling the system to collect data of who is volunteering, what they are doing, and how many hours are involved. This process is up and running at my BCPS school and many others. You may browse this system by logging into the Baltimore City Schools website and clicking the top,right portion of the screen that says"How Can I Help?" Have a nice day.

Regarding foster kids and IEP's. I have been in many CST,SST, and IEP meetings where foster parents skillfully and lovingly advocated for their children.

I think some people just make up information. Check your sources!

@ap - Parent-Teacher conferences are not true indicators of parental involvement so attendances sheets mean nothing in this context. The parent involvement TitleI funding has historically been underspent because of resistance by principals. Some years back there was an effort to track unspent Title I dollars.

My point was if it takes an advocate to get into a charter school, what are the chances for students w/o concerned adults.

@ WE - there is a difference between parents who volunteer and community members who volunteer. I remember the push to get 500 volunteer from the community. How did that work out?

Maybe as a WISE EDUCATOR you fail to miss the importance of parental involvement because it has been absent in far too many school for far too many years.

And the discussion is about if certain schools REQUIRE parent involvement in order for a child to be/ remain enrolled. The statement that charters follow the same rule is being discussed in that context.

1. 163 students were in their freshman class. They graduated 107. Where did those other students go? They either dropped out or were sent back to the public schools. When 1/3 of your students are disappeared, that's rather startling.

2. Yes, Englewood is a poor community. However, there are some great success stories there. Unfortunately, only 30% of Urban Prep's students come from that neighborhood.

3. Getting accepted into college is great. There are many colleges that accept every student who applies there. If you make acceptance into college a graduation requirement, every single Maryland school could make the same statement.. This is a great gimmick, but takes the focus off of what really matters and that is providing a quality education for every student in this state.

Normally I am a strong supporter of the charters and other "contract" public schools and hate the level of mis-information that often gets presented as "fact". For example, some supporters on this blog continue to reference charters and compare them to public schools. Actually, in this state, charter schools ARE public - they accept public kids and get public (not to be confused with FSF) dollars. There are many who push this agenda of mis-information - from school board members to teachers to people with all sorts of agenda's both hidden and public. Having said that, on the issue of a skimming process of any type, my blood boils and I hope of a news paper investigation.

Contract schools are NOT allowed to have selection criteria of any sort - no tests (KIPP), no exclusionary policies (BDJ) such as "mandatory voluntary" donation policies, and when they do it makes the process of running such a school harder for all. We are all lumped into the same category as people who only want to take in those who come college ready, not those who need to be made college ready.

I know that at many of the schools that have been created through Charter, Innovation and Transformation, no such policy or practice exists - they open their doors to all who fill out the systems Choice paperwork (all 5th grade and 8th grade students are now required to make a choice). They take in kids from private schools, special education students and students performing at all levels. They have specific visions and missions, specific models for instruction and content development, they work hard to create new cultures of excellence. They hope that the system learns from their successes and not demand that all schools do it the "system" way. They are passionate about what they do and believe in just like traditional school leaders and workers are. The taint of the selection process of a few puts all in a bad light just as the catastrophic and historic failure of some of the traditional schools makes working at those schools who are finding success harder. Just as the cheating of a few administrators and teachers on a state test stain all who show gains.

Again, my hope is that the system will take the lead on putting fire to the feet of those who continue to publicly and privately push a selection process that breaks the rules. My hope is that all schools including charters, transformations and heck, Poly, City, Western and other "city wide" schools accept who ever comes since all kids deserve an excellent education.

@ Who am I,

Point taken and it is unfair to lump all schools together but grouping Charters and Transformation and Magnet programs is apples and oranges. The overused mantra that "charters are public schools" sheds little light on what is really happening. I also wish someone, even the Sunpaper, would take a hard look at this.

One point, some years back there was an edict that city-wides had to prove that they attempted to work with their struggling students before they were sent back to their zoned school. There is no such restriction on charters.

OTT
If you are implying that charter schools have not "attempted to work with their struggling students before they were sent back to their zoned school" then you obviously have not had a struggling child in a charter school and thus have no idea what you are talking about. We have worked for hours, days, months and years with struggling students to get them the help and services they need to perform their best. We have never sent any child to their zoned school much less have we sent a child to their zoned school because they are struggling. Students have transferred to other schools that cater to their needs such as BDJ or Jemicy. Students have left because our curriculum is not what they are comfortable with or they moved out of town. You will not find a child who left because we didn't attempt to work with them.

Our mission is to give a better level of education to all students. Not just the supposed "easy" ones.

Do you have a child in a charter school or do you work in one? How do you know "what really is happening?"

The amount of crap and opinion on here that is professed to be fact is nauseating.

Charter schools are under the microscope more than traditional public schools. We are evaluated by students, parents, staff, the community and the board to see if we are fulfilling our mission and performing successfully at most every 5 years. We are then closed or given a 1-5 year renewal. It takes YEARS to close a traditional public school that is not performing well. If they are closed at all.

The FACTS speak for themselves. Charter schools have hundred and hundreds of kids on their wait lists to get in. Our school specifically has incredibly low student and staff turnover. Our staff, parents and students are extremely happy and our students perform very well. Those are facts. Isn't that the dream and hope for all schools. We must be doing something right.

OTT
If you are implying that charter schools have not "attempted to work with their struggling students before they were sent back to their zoned school" then you obviously have not had a struggling child in a charter school and thus have no idea what you are talking about. We have worked for hours, days, months and years with struggling students to get them the help and services they need to perform their best. We have never sent any child to their zoned school much less have we sent a child to their zoned school because they are struggling. Students have transferred to other schools that cater to their needs such as BDJ or Jemicy. Students have left because our curriculum is not what they are comfortable with or they moved out of town. You will not find a child who left because we didn't attempt to work with them.

Our mission is to give a better level of education to all students. Not just the supposed "easy" ones.

Do you have a child in a charter school or do you work in one? How do you know "what really is happening?"

The amount of crap and opinion on here that is professed to be fact is nauseating.

Charter schools are under the microscope more than traditional public schools. We are evaluated by students, parents, staff, the community and the board to see if we are fulfilling our mission and performing successfully at most every 5 years. We are then closed or given a 1-5 year renewal. It takes YEARS to close a traditional public school that is not performing well. If they are closed at all.

The FACTS speak for themselves. Charter schools have hundred and hundreds of kids on their wait lists to get in. Our school specifically has incredibly low student and staff turnover. Our staff, parents and students are extremely happy and our students perform very well. Those are facts. Isn't that the dream and hope for all schools. We must be doing something right.

@ BS Catcher, or rather, Pitcher.

I have worked in and around a number of Baltimore City High Schools for years in various positions. Neighborhood schools don't exist anymore, so I'm not sure where you teach.

But ALL schools lose kids throughout the course of the year. The notion that traditional schools like Patterson, Douglass, etc. don't lose kids is laughable.

Truth be told, there are dozens of legit reasons (and many more illegitimate) for a kid to switch schools.

Working in schools, I've received kids from numerous schools of ALL types. And if you work in one, you are either being intentionally misleading or are ignorant.

I know it's a convenient excuse for the utter lack of achievement in many schools. But the "our kids aren't as smart" line that the old neighborhood schools used to spout is nonsense (unless you are comparing yourself to the schools with actual entrance criteria).

@OTT I know a number of families in the Green School. Not all of them have made their hours. NONE have been kicked out.

Other charters trying to kick families out of schools for reasons like this? Maybe. I can't vouch for them. In fact, I'll go also far as to say I suspect there are charters who try this trick. Three words: Shut 'em down.