When your only tool is a hammer everything begins to look like a nail.

The conflict is not whether the miscreants should be set onto another path in another facility... the conflict in the immediate term is that no such appropriate facility exists.

In the longer view though, the problem is that no one wants to admit that such facilities and other tracks merit the funding they require.

Pay now folks.. or pay later.

"We are living in an intellectual and technological paradise and a moral and social nightmare because the intellectual level of evolution, in its struggle to become free of the social level, has ignored the social level's role in keeping the biological level under control." -RP

Post @ School board appears divided on permanent expulsion


"School board commissioners appears divided on permanent expulsion and conflicted."

The board of school commissioners created in SY 2008 a value base email input feature to meet a challenge for involving and strengthen their relationship with the public partners and stakeholders in the Policy Review process for receiving public comments/messages input. policyreview@bcps.k12.md.us

But the board of school commissioners goal and values behavior demonstrated falls very short not to involve and value received public input on policy/regulations changes proposed and/or new created policies/regulations to be voted on by the board of school commissioners. The board does not confirm by announcing the frequency of public input number of emails received back to the public partners and stakeholders even it's own board of school commissioner members during the executive meetings or the public board meetings agenda item are not aware. None of the board of school commissioners members are provided the forwarded received email public input comments/messages sent to the policy review email address policyreview@bcps.k12.md.us and is not distributed by the board of school commissioners office staff. Why?

When the two board public work session forums on permanent expulsion regulations were held to include involving the public partners and stakeholders, during the end of public comments there was not one board member that gave recognition to confirm public input comments/messages had been received the same for being ignored at the regular bi-weekly board meetings on the Information and Discussion agenda item permanent expulsion for policies going through a 1st-3rd reader policy process. Received public input emails from policy review from involved stakeholders, parents and the public partners are not acknowledged and are ignored by the board of school commissioners.

How can the board of school commissioners demonstrate to partners and stakeholders that our input is valued on the policies, if stakeholders and partners involvement as we try to work to strengthen our relationship with our board of school commissioners by their behavior demonstration we are not valued?

Wouldn't it be important to note that most if not all of the supporters were prinicipals?

This is one of those arguments that should not take place at all, but because political correctness in this matter has reached the point at which it is just plain harmful, Alonso gets to seem as if he is "tough" (Second Opinion says) on crimes in schools. If you look at what he is actually telling administrators, it will become instantly clear that most of the crimes that take place in schools are not resulting in any actual consequences at all, let alone expulsion. Pretty soon Alonso is going to say that murderers should be "excluded" from city schools, and all of us with our lowered expectations will call him brave. Reporters for Second Opinion should visit some schools and see for themselves the casual frequency with which crimes that deserve expulsion are disregarded.

@I&EP - Long time no see! I have to disagree with you a bit on this one. During the general comments section of the Board meeting, there were at least 10 different people presenting views about the policy - ranging from student leaders to a lawyer from Legal Aid and parent group representatives. I think there are 2 more readers left on this policy, and I'm sure the final presentation will describe the comments received. In fact, I think this policy has included a significant amount of public contribution, using the general comments as just the tip of the iceberg. I certainly agree that public comment is critical to effective policy making, but I think the Board and staff have really sought to incorporate a fair representation of input.

Post @ School board appears divided on permanent expulsion

Hello Bill, I hear you plead guilty in having no experience in using the board of school commissioners created value base email input feature in SY 2008 to meet a challenge for involving and strengthen their relationship with the public partners and stakeholders in the Policy Review process for receiving public comments/messages input@ policyreview@bcps.k12.md.us

I have the right to have high expectations for results-driven outcomes because that's what matters the most. First focus carefully before you disagree about something try using the policyreview@bcps.k12.md.us to evaluate if it meets your expectations for achieving its board of school commissioners created intended goal for involving and strengthen their relationship with the public partners and stakeholders in the Policy Review process.

I did not write about your quote by Bill:"During the general comments section of the Board meeting"

The half of the school board that wants to allow arsonists to stay in the city schools should stop pretending as though there are enough alternative schools to deal with the students who can't handle ordinary classrooms. But this half of the school board doesn't seem to want these alternative schools anyway. These people throw them into ordinary classrooms and tell themselves everyone is getting an education. And why aren't teachers and administrators getting asked what they think of all this? OverTheTop is right to notice that principals want to expel arsonists more than anybody. Principals have to deal with the arsonists. The school board only has to talk about them.

I have to agree with I&EP. I have used the response system. Got a thank you for for posting but no real response. I gave up because I took it to be a one way conversation and never sure if my input reached its intended target.

Post @ School board appears divided on permanent expulsion

@ a teacher pure gold. @ Over the Top we do speak from having gone through the experience. In my opinion, I wish others would follow our experience first lead before they disagree and defend some thing not having first hands-on-experience. Try not using quote: “I think, In fact, I think," phrases when defending unknown reality it further weakens without merit defense comments. Not cool.

It would be interesting to know if this policy since its inception has decreased the occurrence of arson in the schools. Perhaps it has already been written and I just have not read it.

@ C.S.E. - If you look a the presentation that is posted on the website, arsons started to climb about two years ago. Once the present CEO started this practice the number of arsons reduced.

@OverTheTop

The number of reported arsons have been reduced, yes. Arsons? That's a different question. Why, you ask, wouldn't a school report an arson? Alonso will fire you or at teh very least reprimand you if you do. Don't believe me? Go ask any vice-principal in the city.

Here's a quick take on the expulsion policy: http://www.baltimorerapport.com/2009/10/06/city-schools-permanent-expulsion-policy-the-rapport-takes-note/

What is up with the parade of principals coming to Board meetings to support expulsion? It seems a little orchestrated. If we are to believe that teachers are against this policy (as gleamed from rapport link) then when are they going to speak up? The principal from Patterson gave a dramatic story in support of the policy. Not only did she detail the disruption to the school day but hinted about the cost to the city with all the different agencies involved. When is someone, other than the ACLU, going to come forward with a counter view?

@OverTheTop

Do you really need someone to convince you with a dramatic story that a fire in a school causes disruption? Do you think this argument is even taking place in functional school systems?

@ a Teacher - No, I am convinced, I was just wondering out loud if a call went out to principals to come show support for this policy. It also has been implied that some teachers don't support expulsion and I would like to know their side off the story.