I think it's always a good idea to push students to achieve more. Proficiency is only the first goal, not the final goal. Dr. Alonso said at the press conference yesterday that in the past two years City Schools has doubled the number of students who are advanced and this certainly shows that we're not just pushing students over a minimum boundary, we're also moving the students who were already proficient.

On a different, yet related note, I think we have to be careful when we're evaluating the standards we're setting for districts statewide. When Montgomery County did well and the city did poorly, no one was questioning the standards, so let's not start saying now, "if even the kids in the city are passing, the bar must be too low!" This is not at all to say that conversations about standards are off-limits; I think they're vital! Let's just be sure not to use the fact that lots of kids are passing as a reason that they need to be changed.

Sun Inside Ed Post @ Maryland School Assessments

Parent Training and Support Opportunities

Family and Community Engagement Training
and Support—Summer 2009

Understanding Testing
Learn about the tests your child is required to take:
Stanford 10 for grades 1 and 2, the Maryland School
Assessment (MSA) for grades 3 through 8 and the
High School Assessment (HSA).
July 28, 5-7 p.m., Baltimore Polytechnic
Institute; August 5, 5-7 p.m., Baltimore City
College

Well such high "advanced" pass rates certainly make everyone feel good and make for great bragging rights. But how about making the MSA, you know, a real test? For a more realistic look, check out the NAEP results for Maryland at http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states/achievement.asp

"So what is the next bar to jump over? Perhaps it is time to sort by what percentage of students can place in the advanced category."

No, it is time to cancel the NCLB, remind ourselves that education is not a sporting event, and return to giving our children a good well-rounded education, one that includes generous helpings of music, creative writing, great literature, history, environmental studies, and physical education. And not just for the fortunate (mostly white suburban) ones attending 90% proficiency schools, but for everyone.

A far better test of school progress than anything from the MSA would be to simply ask children whether they had read a book for the own information or pleasure during the past week. Schools should be about awakening curiousity and imagination, not killing it.

Great post, Liz. Good question, and it'll be interesting to read what you report on this issue.

I very much support the proposition you suggest. Proficient is the most basic level. It (theoretically) assures that there's a foundation in place. Given that, adding arts and other non-nuts-and-bolts classes seems like a great way to prioritize the next steps.

I'd bet that with the increase in these additional classes there'd be a corresponding increase in the number of students reaching advanced, as "luxury" classes further promote critical thinking and analysis skills. Seems like a good idea to ensure that all students have the basics and then they get to flourish based on their own tastes and preferences.

I think this whole AYP idea is crap. Are You Progressing...and evyerone get's pumped-up if their school tests really high. So what is what I say. We are still not comparable to the world, our kids still lack basic skills, and you only need 33% to be proficient. So who cares if your school makes AYP. Does it mean your teachers are bad, no, does it mean leadership is poor, no, so what is it? I know that the temptation to cheat is there and it may happen, but you'll never know. Give a new 5th grader a baisc skills math/reading test see how he/she does. Most fail, but why and how if they tested proficient on the MSA. It happens all of the time leaving the middle school to struggle to get the poor kid caught up or the kid is actually so far behind that they really needed proper intervention and never received it; therefore possibly placing them in special education. This happens, but what can be done...nothing. So keep cheering and smiling while the world blows right pass us.

The next bar is testing integrity.
Meaning, for example, teachers should stop standing over students saying "check that one again" until the answer is changed or changed again to the right one, and the teacher, or IST, or Vice Principal or whichever person is in the room making sure the test is given "correctly" walks away, which means the answer is correct. It could also mean not stating answers aloud or writing them on the board during testing. Testing integrity would also mean that cheating isn't encouraged, supported, or ignored on every level from teachers to superintendents to parents to media.

I'm not speaking for all students and all schools, but I can speak for a lack of testing integrity in Baltimore City as well as Maryland on many levels.
Those students, schools, and districts where this is real progress, should be celebrated. It's just not always so easy to tell what's really going on when you're looking at basic, proficient, and advanced on one test in a climate where the stakes are high.

I have said it many, many times. Our students are tested entirely too much. All we do is test and collect data. What does that tell us about what the children have actually learned? Does it tell us that they can think for themselves? No. Does it tell us that they enjoy learning, reading and the other things that will allow them to be successful outside of the school setting? No. All that testing really does is show that we can teach students to pass a test. Yipee! Read about the FCAT scores in Florida and how the high performing schools there are being attacked for teaching formulaic writing. NCLB has done its job--making all of us aware that we need to have similar requirements for all students. Now let's move on to the real job of inspiring students to learn.

Twenty-five years ago, Maryland colleges complained that many of our high school graduates were plopped on their door steps with a Maryland high school diploma albatross around their necks, in no way indicating their readiness for college level work. The Maryland State Department of Education's (MSDE's) response was to launch what has evolved into a long line of standardized, "minimum competency" tests. The Project Basic tests were eventually discarded as "too minimum." The MSPAP tests were discarded because MSDE could provide little help to Maryland teachers with how to prepare students to succeed on them (read: "to teach to the test"). When the federal government insisted that ALL students' skills needed to be tested and that students should receive individual rather than group scores (two radical notions!), the MSDE seized the opportunity to dump the MSPAP. The current MSAs and HSAs promised to raise the bar with higher graduation standards. But if the findings Maryland colleges are to be believed, our students now merely have "a 'Passed MSA' albatross around their necks (according to an anonymous posting published in today's SUN) of no value to their future success in any field of academic study." So is this progress? A German saying comes to mind: "The more things change, the more they stay the same."

If we’re looking to “rank schools and say which are better,” upping the ante on MSA’s from “proficient” to “advanced” is one facet of the equation, but forcing teachers to focus all of their energy on increasing these test scores is really unfair to the students.

Last Fourth of July, I went to the Inner Harbor to watch fireworks and a great portion of the audience was comprised of Baltimore City teens, unaccompanied by adults. Many of them were obnoxious. They were yelling, ignoring police’s requests to move on, cursing in front of young children, etc. I felt like a fight could have broken out at any moment, and if I had young children with me, I would have felt that their safety was at risk.

It dawned on me that these teens had not been taught adequate social skills. The purpose of school is not just to produce kids that can read, write, and perform basic math, but to produce people that will be able to contribute to society, that will be able to obtain jobs. If teens come out of school without the ability to act respectfully and professionally, who is going to hire them? Without proper social skills, being “proficient” in math and reading can really turn out to be quite useless.

The way things currently stand, the basic message is, get your students to perform well on these MSA tests or your school won’t get the $$ it wants. The US population should be ashamed that we are allowing schools to be run this way.

It is a shame that we rejoice over the great number of proficient students. Children who score proficient on the MSA also may score below average-30%ile on a norm referenced test...Please do some research on what proficient really means. It certainly is not great! By the way-
Advanced? ...what a misleading title.

It's great to know that no matter what progress individual students, individual schools, or the City Schools as a whole make you can count on the news media and a good number InsideEd posters to not pause to congratulate or praise, but move straight into the idea that the tests must be poor, because clearly City School students are doing badly in so many ways.

Well, I'll state my feelings straight out - Congratulations to the City Schools as a whole. Students and teachers were given and objection and with a lot of determination and hard work they were successful. Although I have not gotten results for 2 of my 3 kids I have told them that I am proud of them at this point as well as saying the same thing when completed their tests.

I realize that there is plenty of room for improvement, but for once, couldn't we just have some unqualified praise and positive messages.?

To the parent above, yes I do see your point. Schools are setting standards for the kids to meet, and then when the kids are meeting them, we’re taking a step back and saying, wait a minute, if you actually achieved the goal, then the standards must have been too low in the first place. That’s not fair to the students. The students have done their part and succeeded on these assessments, so I do think we need to stop for a moment and congratulate them.
Kudos to all the students who put forth their best efforts on those assessments.

I think we get so caught up in the madness of the system that sometimes we forget about the individual students who really do want to learn and who are trying to meet the standards we are setting for them.
This shows that if the adults can get their acts together and demand success from the students, the students will succeed.

in response to switchedonmom...

while the NAEP data is interesting, it's not really a great reflection of state progress. the NAEP is based on national standards, whereas the MSA is based on state standards. the state determines what specific skills should be taught by grade level (voluntary state curriculum). the MSA tests the skills that the state determines are important. these skills vary to some degree by grade level depending on the state. for instance, in MD 4th graders might only need to know median, range and mode, but in another states they may also need to know mean (that's a 5th grade skill in MD). the NAEP doesn't test state standards - it tests a broad, general set of skills. therefore test questions may address skills that are indeed not taught at that grade level in MD. make sense?

as for taking a "real" test, the format of the NAEP is the same as that of the MSA. So I couldn't actually say that one is "real" while the other is not. I've administered both. They're very similar - multiple choice - although MSA requires written responses as well (making it slightly more rigorous, i suppose).

i'm so very impressed with our students' skills. hats off to our kids! and to their teachers!

just one teacher's opinion...

@ Anonymous

if you see all this cheating going on at your school do something about.

we don't cheat at my school, and it's really not fair if you are just standing by and complaining. You say that you can "speak for a lack of integrity in testing." How about speaking out against it.

@ a parent

I agree completely - I have never heard anyone on this blog complain about the way the MSA is scored until our Bmore kids started earning more and more proficients and advanced.

@Laura

the real shame is that school has become the only place some of our kids are taught "social skills." Was that your teacher's job when you went to school or was it your parent's?

I think we all forget sometimes that the MSA is just one tool we use to look at to formulate what our kid need to be successful.

@ a parent -

I understand you want to feel that this is a piece of good news and you want to celebrate a bit. However, I believe that the whole MSA testing apparatus is a form of violence against children, so I can’t go there with you.

My daughter is a successful student in a school where most students test proficient. She hates the MSAs. Every kid I know hates them. When they complete their bubble sheets early, they can't leave the room, they can't read a book, they can't take out a notebook and draw or write. They are forced to sit there like blocks of wood until the testing period is over. Her school has no recess for middle school students and no phys ed to speak of because it has to be all academics all the time. Several of her friends are overweight. They are only 12 years old.

The test results tell me nothing about her academic strengths or weaknesses. All I learn is that she is basic or proficient or advanced according to Maryland standards that mean nothing to me. When she tells me stories about her English or science teacher, when she show me a social studies project, when she amazes me with her artwork or writing, I celebrate that. When her school puts on a play or a science fair or has an awards night, it’s great. I find there are plenty of accomplishments to celebrate without the MSAs. To me, the MSAs are nothing but a source of stress and hysteria.

So we allow our kids to be abused for a week every year, and we allow things like daily recess or gym to be dropped, which in my view could have very harmful negative effects long term. For what? So we can work hard and beat Prince Georges again in next year’s MSA playoff? Is that such a great thing? Not in my opinion. So our children will learn more and be more successful in life? Well, yes, that might be a good reason, but the National Assessment of Educational Progress, which is widely acknowledged to be the gold standard in testing, does not show any increased learning associated with the MSA. I know for certain that it is not helping my child. So, sorry, I am not going to celebrate something that my child hates and that serves no greater purpose as far as I can see.

Back when I was in middle school, we had a week of standardized testing. I think it was the Iowa tests. As I remember, it was just one year, not every year. Towards the end of the week, I was so bored filling in bubble sheets, I didn’t care any more, so I just started filling in dots randomly. I remember glancing around at my classmates and many of them who were less capable students than me gave up much sooner than I did.

I also had an English teacher named Mr. Cohn. I didn’t think much of him then, he seemed like a strange little man. But every once in a while he would read stories to us aloud. We were the top readers, and we could all read for ourselves, but he read to us aloud. I can still remember sitting with the whole class transfixed listening to “The Devil and Daniel Webster” and “The Tell-Tale Heart.” I don’t think it helped me much on the Iowa tests, but I can still hear him read. I wonder how many 7th grade teachers do that any more.

@michael -
I'm not in love with the MSA myself and I especially have issues with the fact that all writing is taught to match the grading concept of BCR's from the MSA/HSA. I'd be a lot happier if it were all bubbles, not because I think writing is unimportant, but because I don't think it's possible to have a fair, standard, timely judgement on something that is as subjective as "good writing".

Moving on to your bigger issue about testing in general. Testing is a necessary evil from my perspective. I can't tell you the number of people who have told me that my kid's education is terrible because they go to city schools. I strongly disagree, but without some sort of objective data on kids, schools and systems, how can we even try to compare educational results from one school to another? Sure, I can talk about subjective specifics - the incredible 5th grade science teacher, the social studies class with discussions so compelling that my kid who hates to talk in class starting joining in, etc. But we need something to use as a yardstick.

I agree that the MSA's and HSA's are over-emphasised. Perhaps the solution is to add other objective measures of the success of a school. There's attendance and family participation at the moment I believe. I don't think that they can be thrown out any more than the SAT's and GPA's that colleges look at. Improvement is a good idea, but objective, number based evaluations are a fact of life.

@Michael

Your daughter's school sounds like an awful place. There are schools still teaching art, music, and phs. ed, as well as stressing reading and math. I propose that the msa is all about how you present it to the kids. If you say, "this is a test, no talking, no reading, well then yes, of course they will hate the test.

If instead, you present the test from day one as a challenge, a goal to master, a way to demonstrate your abilities, then many more kids would enjoy the process. I love to see the kids at my school coming out after testing saying how easy it was for them. It builds confidence in themselves when they see that their hard work during the year pays off in the end.

Almost all high-level jobs in our society require testing as a way to prove job worthiness.
Granted, the MSA does not give the most detailed information for each student. But that is not its purpose. IT is the Maryland SCHOOL assessment and it is designed to measure progress at the school level. Benchmarks and informal tests must be used to get a real picture of where a kid currently performs academically.

@ a parent –

I guess I disagree that standardized testing is a necessary evil. Just because it is a number doesn’t necessarily make it “objective.” I think we’ve seen plenty of fuzzy math recently with the Wall Street crash, and I don’t believe the MSA gives a reliable measure of how a school is actually doing. It’s more like MSDE is a mad doctor taking temperatures with a broken thermometer and sending people to the hospital for imaginary ills. I think we have gone way too test crazy, and, unfortunately, it is parents who are partially responsible for the feeding frenzy. As long as we keep putting scores out there, we are just feeding the beast.

Maybe the one legitimate use of testing would be as an aid to identify schools that are truly failing to educate children. But I don’t think you really need testing for that. It doesn’t take that much. You walk into the school and look around. Is it clean and inviting? Are you greeted respectfully? Are the children moving in an organized fashion from one classroom to the next? You walk into a classroom. What are the kids doing? Are they energized and engaged? How many raise their hands when the teacher asks a question? Are the kids asking questions? Do they understand what the lesson is about? Things like that. I an not an educator, but I would think an experienced, competent educator could walk into a school and tell you in about 10 minutes whether the school was working or not. What’s wrong with relying on experienced professional judgement? In my opinion it would be far better than the MSA.

So... BCPSS summer school is over. Oddles of paper was wasted on test bookelets and answer sheets, the kids who took the pretest were (in many cases) not the kids who were left to take the post-test.Does anybody really believe that great measurable growth was made in nineteen half days of summer school? Did we teach only what was tested? Hell,no!Did we have field trips, cultural arts programs, the arts(God forbid,they aren't tested!), music(ditto), lots of fun, read several whole books, and reminded kids why they might love learning. You bet we did! Did we keep kids (mostly) cool, off the streets, fed, and happy? Yes! Were the teachers happy? You bet!Did teachers make a great deal of money? No, because we spent it on the kids. And yes, the kids learned a great deal but not limited to what was on the ridiculous test whose data means nothing stastically.Who needs two long tests in 19 days of summer? A need to justify summer school expense? A need to justify some research position? Somewhere I read that kids in summer school scored worse(on what) than those who did not attend summer school. Who researched that? Prove it! How were the two tests aligned? How can you compare anything when the summer school test is so flawed???? Use common sense!!! A kid at home or on the street and a kid in a summer learning program? Really! How MUCH farther behind would the kid have been without summer school?

Come and talk to the kids, look at their work, gaze on their smiling, unstressd faces, ask them what they learned! Get out from behind your data crunching desks! And for 19 days, let teachers work their magic! There was a BCPSS student survey at the end. Complicated. I gave an anonymous survey to my kids asking if they would come again.(always the thing to ask kids if you really want to know what they think)Everyone responded with a very positive YES! The work folders were filled with meaningful work, parents were thrilled and kids were happy.

There is not an educator around who does not understand the text book reason for data collection but we also know how it is misused and twisted for all sorts of purposes. What happened to field studies of real children and their teachers?

Next summer, provide summer school funds and let the building principal oversee her own program including money,curriculum,professional development(which was the biggest waste of money fiasco of 2009 summer school!), and results. Doesn't the school and it's students have the most to gain or loose by running an excellent program?'. This is another area central office needs to bug out of. BTW, who funds the summer learning office at Hopkins? That is a joke ,too! Someone's Phd,no doubt.

@michael

In a perfect, utopian society we could use “experienced professional judgment,” having a professional come into the school and assess what is going on (are the students on task, are they comprehending the lesson, is the teacher treating students fairly, etc.). This could be one effective way of determining whether or not the school is performing adequately.

The reason I think this wouldn’t work today is that too much money is involved. I have heard many stories of administration and professionals reporting great things about chaotic, under functioning schools. They filter out the quarrels, the sleeping students, the students roaming the halls during class time, etc.

Unfortunately, when schools are underperforming or not complying, their punishment is a deduction in funds. If you’ve been following the $4 billion in Race to the Top money President Obama is promoting, then you know that states that do not comply with the proposed guidelines will not be eligible for the money.

Schools will do what they have to do to get the money they need. If that means putting together a report and presenting a false picture that their school is performing satisfactorily, they may very well do that.

I think we need national assessments in order to capture an unbiased snapshot of how our students are doing. I do not think that these assessments alone will predict how well these students will do after they graduate, or even how they did while they were in school. We need to work on finding other ways to capture student/teacher success other than these tests. We are putting forth way too much of our energy on these assessments, when they should only be one piece of the puzzle. At least that’s my opinion.

Mike MS: “If instead, you present the test from day one as a challenge, a goal to master, a way to demonstrate your abilities, then many more kids would enjoy the process.”

Great idea. I’ll see if it helps my daughter eat eggplant.

Mike MS: “Almost all high-level jobs in our society require testing as a way to prove job worthiness.”

Not sure I follow the logic. Most adults have sex. Are you saying we should get kids started early on that too?

Many selective colleges are making standardized entrance exams optional.

Mike MS: “Granted, the MSA does not give the most detailed information for each student. But that is not its purpose. IT is the Maryland SCHOOL assessment and it is designed to measure progress at the school level.”

Correct. So why do they have to give every kid the same test? Why not randomize subsets of the questions to different students and tally up the results for the school? You’d get the same information with a lot less stress on the kids in much less time. (Oops, forgot, that would require MSDE to know something about statiatics.)

Come to think of it, we live in the 21st century now, why are we still using ancient testing technology? Here’s an idea: randomize kids to classrooms, each classroom gets a different set of questions, each kid gets one of those clickers like they use to get audience feedback on “Who Wants to be a Millionaire?” The questions come up on a screen and each kid clicks in his answer to a laptop that sucks in the data and radios it back to MSDE central where it gets churned and sent back. Bingo. With one or two hours testing time you’ve got your results for the school in real time, so the school can actually do something with it. And the process might actually be fun for kids. AND since it wasn’t such a chore for the kids, you could run it several times over the course of the school year and track actual improvement.

The point is with a little thought and creativity, the process could be vastly improved to make it less stressful for kids and get better and more useful information. Unfortunately, it seems like whoever designs these tests has been stupified by taking too many of them.

Michael

love the "who wants to be a Millionaire" idea. I do this in my class all the time.

Unfortunately, the effect of the remainder of your post is weakened by your obscure logical extensions. Eggplant and sex liscensing tests ( is having sex a job now?)

it is really difficult to have a discussion with someone who views others' posts as mere logical hurdles to be knocked down.

And yes, while it is not important that the the next person i have sex with has passed a test, I sure hope the doctor who operates on someone i love has.

mike: I'm sorry you found my arguments obscure. Let me explain.

Eggplant reference: You described a technique for getting children to perform a task that would seem to be inherently distasteful to them by presenting it to them as a challenge. I'm glad it works for you, but for my kid, I know it would be like convincing her to view the injestion of eggplant (without retching) as a task to be mastered. And believe me, eating eggplant would be an enormous challenge for her.

Early sex reference: You commented that many high level jobs require passing standardized exams. This is true. But why is it relevant to children? There are many things adults do that are not expected of children. You seem to suggest that simply because adults take standardized tests, children should too. I do not see how this follows. If I have misinterpreted what you wrote, please enlighten me.

Michael

the child is the father of the man. Lower level education's purpose, as i see it, is to prepare children to lead hapy and productive lives as adults. at the middle school where i work, over 94 % of the kids live in poverty. these children have enough roadblocks set up before them. Some of these roadblocks will be, unfortunately, standardized tests. What is the more reponsible thing to do: poison their opinions on what tests are and what they represent or teach them to do their best to study and pass. I maintain that for the children that I work with, it would be an incredible disservice to not prepare them for the challenges the adult world will offer. and this idea that the test would be our challenge for the year didn't just work for me, it worked for our entire school because everyone supported it. even the teachers who had negative feelings about the test

as a teacher or administrator, you have incredible impact on the way things are presented to and viewed by our children. You control the weather.
If the adults present testing as something "inherently distasteful," then that is how the students will see it.

and yes, there are things that adults do that young children don't. But we still prepare our children when they are young to one day do these things. My daughter doesn't drive yet, but that doesn't prevent me from teaching her things about safe following distance or braking on wet roads.

mike - I'm sorry I was so brusque with you. I have the greatest respect for the people like you in the trenches. I was too hotheaded, and I apologize. It sounds like you are doing a great job. The Sun should have had pictures of people like you on the front page when the MSA scores came out instead of the politicians and bureaucrats.

Let me ask you this: besides being a hurdle that kids have to get over, do you think prepping for the MSA provides the greatest use of instructional time? Is MSA prep really the best way to help kids lead "happy and productive lives" or would you do something different if you had your druthers?