Any superintendent who cannot get rid of an incompetent teacher is herself incompetent. There is no jurisdiction in which proven incompetence is not a sure-fire reason to remove a teacher. Too often, supervisors are either too lazy or too incompetent to get the job done.

I agree with jrsposter. I have personally witnessed 8 years of administrators allowing a teacher to simply NOT SHOW UP for classes, over and over again, because she is an alum of the school AND a popular coach. 8 years' worth of different students have all attested to this fact, yet nothing is done about this teacher.

THIS is because sometimes principals and administrators don't do what's best for kids, either. So why should ANYONE (not just teachers) be subject to arbitrary firing? There MUST be due process, and there is. You have 2 years to observe teachers BEFORE they get tenure. If they aren't good enough in that time, then it's the administrators' fault for not getting rid of them.

But administrators will keep bad teachers as long as they aren't overtly horrible, because they can't get enough warm bodies.

HERE'S what Rhee wants to do: have 1 year where she can FIRE anyone high up on the pay scale and replace them with newbies who are cheaper, as well as be more maleable to her vision. It's all about the dollar in schools, folks -- don't let people like Rhee (or Alonso) fool you -- they are CEO's, not superintendents. They are looking out for the dollar first, NOT kids -- kids are a sincere second, don't get me wrong, but if you really love kids, you would treat teachers better because teachers are the ones who spend the most time with the kids are are the ones doing the teaching!

I am confused Ummmmmm - are teachers teaching kids and therefore should stay or are they incompetent and should be fired? Rhee and Alonso (although this story was about Rhee, not AAA) want teachers who both care about kids and who can teach. Let's look at statistics, some might call it data, or, you know, evidence: For years, DC and BCPSS have had school where some hard working, some not hard working, some smart working and some not smart working, some caring and some not caring, teachers have worked and gotten, by ANY measure (attendance, parent involvement, retention, drop out rates and lets not forget, you know, tests scores) AWFUL results. Is it a failure of leadership? Yes! Is that failure at both the school level and the system level? YES! Is Rhee trying to take this on? YES! While I agree that there might be a little something to this "fire the better paid vets" thing, I think that there is way more to the "fire the teachers who are not moving kids forward" thing. You know, that old sweet song that schools are afraid of, it's called SUCCESS! I don't know much about DC, except from friends who I know who work there, but in BCPSS, we have schools that have (again, I don't care what measure you use)fail to meet the needs of kids, year after year after year and NOTHING IS DONE. What's up with that?

I was at the high school fair today and with the fair student funding model now in effect there's something about competition that is exciting between the schools - if you cannot attract students, your money goes away. Imagine if parents had data to go on when selecting schools. And before Artie slams me (nothing but love there Artie) I do believe that we need more than just test data, but I don't think we should ignore test data. Would you send your kid to a school where they had only 15% of the kids pass the state tests, where attendance was at 80%, where suspensions were through the roof, where staff turnover was high? I know I damn sure wouldn't, and don't! Each of my lovely children, the ones asleep in their beds upstairs right now, goes to a BCPSS school and each has a stick on their heads that reads "Worth over 6 thousand dollars to the school that can treat them well" Yes, there, I've said it. Without the ability to attract kids, schools in BCPSS will fade away. If every family could choose a QUALITY school, and that quality was there for more than just a few hours during a fair, what a world that would be. And if each teacher, high quality teacher, caring, hard working and smart working, professional, high standard setting teacher, could choose to work with others of the same ilk, and with school leaders who get just how important their jobs are, man, now that would be something.

As for AAA only caring about the money, that's BS and you know it. He refused to let the budget issues touch the schools, instead, making sure that cuts were done at North Ave. That's actually caring about the kids and NOT the money or adults.

Rhee's plan means teachers would need to put their money where their mouths are - if you think you are able to do the job of moving kids forward, then give up something and get something else. I like it. It makes me nervous, but I like it.

(yes I know this is long)

I worked for an advanced academic program a few years back and they offered, for a year at least, a bonus for good test results. That year, while I had lots of great activities, really engaged kids and families and worked my butt off, I only made significant gains with one class of kids. On my bonus check it said "small gains, 6th grade". I was really hurt and mad when I read that. To have everything I did reduced to that sentence was hard to think about. After writing a very nasty email which I deleted I realized that I was being paid to TEACH and while I didn't want to loose the climate and culture that I had created, there were things I needed to do to ensure, yes, ensure, that I was MOVING MY KIDS, ALL OF THEM farther, faster. So I made changes to how I did things without loosing my own flavor in my class. And guess what? Test scores went up, kids were more engaged, parents and students were still happy and of course, you know it, they stopped giving bonuses for performance.

It can be done. Good culture and high performance.

I work in a complex that is shared by another 2 schools. Last Friday a class from one of these schools was taking a walk in our hallway when a fight broke out between two of their students. The kids crowded and cheered which is to be expected, but what really grinds my gears was the teacher's response. I understand the union tells teachers not to break up fights but they are supposed to call for help from the hall monitors or school police. I say F the union I'm not going to sit there and watch somebody get the crap kicked out of them. So I separate the two boys until they've cooled down. The aggressor and beating deliverer walked back to his teacher who said "don't fight" and then proceeded to hit the student as punishment. The student who took the beating was clearly embarrassed and potentially injured. The teacher did not even inquire as to his condition or whether he needed to see the nurse. WTF!!

How do people like this keep their jobs? Why are they allowed to educate young people? What kind of principal is not aware of their teachers' behavior? Our school system is full of tenured teachers like this one with complete job security.

Corey:

That's an awful story for all of us - teachers, parents, kids, school leaders and community members. I am saddened that the union has taken a stand not to do what's right. I am also saddened that teachers cannot see all children as just that - children. Yes they are frustrating, yes they make poor and sometimes destructive choices, yes they fight, disrespect and a whole boat load of other things. But they are also the best kids that parents can send us - if they had better kids they would send those. I would loose no sleep over teachers like these being let go, no matter how long they have been with us. They do not move our profession forward. Lastly, I am saddened that teachers have been pushed to the point where they cannot do better, where the frustrations have taken over. It does not need to be that way. As the parent of 3 BCPS students I appreciate you doing what's right, not what's prescribed.

IO-

I agree with you completely, but I think a few points are worth expanding upon. Your statement that you are "saddened that teachers have been pushed to the point where they cannot do better, where the frustrations have taken over" is incredibly telling. I have days, more often than I usually care to admit, that I am that person. But when student action after student action goes unnoticed and unpunished, I cannot help but feel that way. I try to swallow it, and I recognize that if they had better kids, they would send them, but its an emotionally overwhelming experience sometimes.

When you say "it does not need to be that way", what does that mean? Is is a student-driven, faculty-driven, or administrative-driven solution? Or all?

I do see them as children and while it is difficult when they are terrorizing my room and my lesson, I breathe deep and remember that. At the same token though, I dare say that a consistent,CLEAR, and unwavering punishment will, in part, alleviate some of the teacher disinterest and disenfranchisement.

This is not meant as absolution for the teachers who treat certain children in certain manners. I just think there needs to be some more professional empathy for the teachers as a whole. And some understanding for HOW they got to where they are now. Bad ones need to go, but it would serve future "good" teachers who are beaten down later to understand how that process evolves and what we can do to retain that high level we all came into the system with.

Let me be insanely clear here on a few points:

1) It's not easy to be a teacher - being a good or even great one is even harder.
2) Punishment feels good to the adult and doesn't work to change behavior
3) Finding consequences for both positive and negative choices, ones that are clear, meaningful and designed with the kids goes a long way, longer than punishing them
4) What I mean is that kids will always act out, what doesn't have to be so draining is the way these things are dealt with and discussed with kids, families and staff
5) The system needs to provide more supports for those kids who are really in crisis - more counselors, more mentors, more more more.
6) School leaders need to do a better job working with all members of the school - kids, parents and teachers when tackling the issue.

I'll give you an example from my own school:

We had a few fights in the first few weeks of school. It sucked. I was mad. Here's what I heard from lots of people - teachers and parents alike, "What are you going to do, suspend them or are you going to do nothing?" Okay, let's think about this:

Suspension DOESN"T WORK to change behavior. It's not that this isn't an option to get the kid out for a few days, help make a strong statement, make grownups feel better, but it doesn't work.

Doing nothing doesn't work. Nuf said on that one.

But, are these the only words we know in reacting to a fight? Aren't there other options that might work, do work, can work? We can agree that making a strong statement about fighting is important. We can agree that making it clear that fighting isn't a viable answer in the school setting. We can agree that fighting disrespects the learning community. We can agree that kids need to take responsibility for their choices including for fighting.

So, what can a smart group of educators, parents and kids come up with that might work? I don't know at you school, but that's a conversation worth having don't you think? Maybe when more schools begin having this discussion, begin reaching out to what alternatives there are, begin to look at how adults treat and react to kids, maybe then we start to move this ship in a different direction.

And yes, we occationally suspend kids. It happens. There are times when that is part of the conversation. But only ever part. Not all.

Interested? Come on, I know you are. I mean if this is the level of discussion happening at my school around something that only 8 - 12 percent of the kids do, imagine what we are talking about when addressing instruction:-) It can happen.

Some days I LOVE this job!!!

As for the beaten down feeling, imagine how your students feel - never being listened to, never being valued, never being asked for their opinion even though they might know something, sitting endlessly in front of bad, great, good teachers. Yes, it's hard to be a teacher, but you alone set the weather in your room. Be the storm!

I'm chiming in, Corey.

I don't have much time for this, but IO makes a great point and I wanted to add something I've seen occurring in our school law clinic at MD. Beforehand, I have to set this assumption, I realize that the two negative "things" are very different, but for the purpose of argument I think it works as a correlation. Onwards...

In Baltimore, there's a relatively significant prostitution problem. There's a supply and demand component to this social issue, and I believe there's a similar supply/demand issue with fighting or actions that lead to most school suspensions. Said more effectively, both prostitution and bad behavior leading to suspension have deeper root problems that cause the actions.

I really appreciate IO's comment about the suspensions making adults feel good but not addressing the true problem. The criminal justice system is facing similar issues, particularly with prostitution. Normally, when we catch a John (prostitute demander) or a prostitute (prostitution supplier), we lock them up for X amount of days or require X dollars in fines. This is like suspension. It makes outsiders feel good - i.e. "Look, we've arrested 40% more prostitutes this month and we've collected $20,000 in fines. We're really doing something about prostitution in this police district!" However, we're just making ourselves feel good.

Instead, other cities (and Baltimore may soon become one of those cities with the MD Law clinic's assistance) have other programs to get at the root causes. Two examples are John Schools and John letters. For John school, prostitution demanders, if caught, are required to attend a meaningful seminar that focuses on the societal issues associated with prostitution, the public health risks, the personal health risks, and long-term outcomes. The John letter is a letter sent to known Johns who frequent prostitute-laden areas. The license plates are recorded and verified, and the police send a John cease-and-desist letter. These programs get at the root (particularly the John school) and have positive results. Districts that implement these programs have seen significant decreases in the number of repeat offenders and the overall frequency of prostitution-related offenses. Jailing and fining doesn't work, but innovative tools can have an effect. I think this would be similar for suspensions. Investigate the root causes, develop a program that gets at those, and implement. It's a workable formula.

FYI: I visited this innovative court in Brooklyn. Incredibly inspiring - we really need something like this in Baltimore. It's a leading model of community justice problem-solving courts that are moving away from the "lock 'em up" recidivism cycle. Worth taking a look at: http://www.courtinnovation.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=Page.viewPage&pageID=572.

Bill - I like your thinking! Isn't most of this talk about behavior that disrupts the community be it school, city, state, whatever, really about what we can do to reduce those disruptions to the community norms? And isn't it about those who disrupt needing to take responsibility for what they have done? Where in arresting, fining or suspending does any of that happen? How do we teach people to take responsibility when it's clear that where I learned that - at home - isn't doing a good enough job? And how do we teach those things within the context of the culture breaking behavior? I hear all the time that people should "know better" - for example, the kids should know how to get to their lockers, go to the bathroom and return to class without meeting with friends and spending 20 minutes talking. They should know how to resolve issues without yelling, insulting and fighting, they should know not to get sex from prostitutes and know not to sell their bodies for money. And where would "they" have learned those things? Who would have taught "them"? I SHOULD know to buckle my seat belt every time I drive - I have kids, I want be safe, it's the law and so on. I don't. Or at least I didn't until I got a ticket for driving without my seat belt on. The cop, when giving me the ticket, explained that if I wanted to go to court to fight the ticket I could do this that and the other. I looked at him as I sat with my seat belt off and said, "And on what grounds would I fight this? I didn't have the seat belt on. Seems fairly straight forward to me." He laughed and said I would be surprised. Actually I wouldn't. I have worked in schools for a long time. What I hope teachers start doing more is taking time to intentionally teach the things we think everyone should know. You get it right? We are "teachers". And for those who say they have taught kids these things, think about how many times we need to repeat lessons before their message sinks in...
Bill: Thanks again for posting such an interesting set of thoughts. I would love to hear more about what you do and how we get our kids involved...

IO: Okay. I have to admit, these comments qualify as a pretty interesting observation. When I worked as a teacher, I spent a considerable amount of time not only focused on academics but also integrating explicit and implicit messages about what behaviors were desirable in our classroom and which would create the positive culture from which everyone could benefit. It was hard but totally worth it.

I learned really fast that it is only ever enough to 'tell' a child what we want and wait in anticipation for the behavior to be fulfilled when the behavior was previously effectively taught and learned! This has come in extremely handy now that I am a parent. It is amazing how much we can expect from children -attitudes and traits that even adults don't acquire or display- without previously providing them with the tools to comply.

A recent article in PDK runs parallel to this train of thought which focuses on two philosophies to the behavior of children. Is it that-
Kids do well if they want to or do kids do well if they can?
The researcher, Ross Greene, does an amazingly articulate job explaining the difference between these ideologies and the implications for how we respond to student misbehavior. It's a great read!
!