Only the ignorant think that teachers only work 6hours/day 180 days. Because I have yet to meet a teacher that can grade 180+ papers, call parents, write lesson plans, attend required classes and meetings, and god knows what else in single planning period. Most have at least an hour and more like 2-3 per night at home of required work.

Your reader is a complete imbecile. My wife is a Baltimore County High School English teacher and she gets into school around 7:00AM and does not leave until 4:30PM. Between meetings, parent conferences, lesson prep(s), et cetera she does not even have enough time during the day to have a real lunch. As soon as she gets home she grades essays, projects and assignments from about 7:00PM until 10:00. (She teaches about 150 students). On the weekends, she spends at least another 10 hours preparing for the next week's classes and grading more work. How she has time for me and our three month old child is a testament to how she (and all teachers) are truly dedicated to their profession.

I have heard this argument for a long time and those parents that think a teacher has it easy need to step back and think about how much work teachers put into teaching their children. When you calculate the amount of time most teachers spend conducting their job duties, it is definitely more than those complaining spend at their 40 hour a week, two-week vacation job.

Now, there is a strong argument that teachers should be paid based on their subject; an English teacher spends a lot more time preparing for and grading then a math or physical education teacher. But all teachers deserve the money they are paid and most definitely deserve their small raise increase each year.

If the public can support writers getting better wages, the public needs to get behind teachers in their quest for more money and better benefits. Who inspired and helped those writers excel at their craft? TEACHERS!

If it is so easy, then why is there a teacher shortage?

If your writers believe it is so easy and we are overpaid as educators,Baltimore City has many openings for those up to the challenge.

A teacher in elementary school teaches reading, language, writing, math, social studies and science. Lesson plans for each area of instruction are necessary each day - don't forget to incorporate technology. Many times it is necessary to gather materials for teaching the lessons. Assessments are given regularly and need to be graded the results are analyzed to determine the need for reteaching or extension. Worksheets need to be copied. Homework needs to be checked. The teacher is also responsible for taking attendance, collecting money for fund raisers, field trips, pictures etc, and in some schools monitoring breakfast. Teachers write special reports and attend team for needy students. The teacher is responsible for student discipline, completing behavior charts, and maintaining parent contact. Four times a year interims are sent home, four times a year report cards are sent home. In addition, there are regular faculty meetings, teachers are expected to participate in at least one school committee, attend night activities, tutor students that need help (either before or after school). Add to this the 25 different personalities within the classroom, the demands of special needs students (inclusion does not always provide a special educator), and the pressure of high stakes testing. Some might believe that all of this takes place within the seven hours teachers are scheduled to be in school, but it is impossible.

I am a Baltimore County Teacher. I am home with bronchitis and even though I have been sick as a dog for three days, each night I have had to write detailed lesson plans just so I could stay home. Is it any wonder that teachers come to school sick all the time. If I could have gone to school, I would have. The fact is that most teachers put in an additional 3-4 hours every night plus at least one day on the weekend for their 7 hour day (191 days per year). Included in the 7 hours is a 1/2 hour lunch which I always spend working in my room. I even called parents on Wednesday, a snow day, in Baltimore County to discuss their child's progress rasping through my bronchitis. Every county that surrounds Baltimore County, including Baltimore City, pays more on the Master's level with 15 years experience. The difference in that pay is from $3500 to $9000 more. There is no profession that is better when you see the results from your students, but when your life becomes nothing else but teaching and that pay is meager at best, teachers are just not sticking around and being magnanimous any more. I could write reams more, but I am feeling awful.

I'd like to see what the person who made those comments does for a living, how much they get paid and if they have ever put their children (if they have any) through the Baltomore County School System. I bet if they didn't get a raise for such hard work, they wouldn't sit back and just let it happen either.

Obviously the writer that commented about teachers being overpaid and underworkered was not the product of a good education. Exactly the reason teachers who all work 50 to 80 hours a week and spend their own money on supplies for the kids don't get close to being paid what they deserve. We live in a world where CEO's get 10 million dollar bonuses, but teachers who are directly responsable for our children's and thus our countries future can't even get a 2% raise this year! My wife is a teacher in Baltimore County. She works 50- 60 hour weeks. She is responsible for shaping, motivating and enriching our children so they grow up to become productive, caring, well-adjusted citizens of the United States. No other job has that type of responsiblity. Teachers starting saleries should start at six figures. They have our future in their hands. It all begins and ends with them.

People all the time assume that teachers do nothing, and those are the people who have no idea what is involved in our job. As mentioned above, we have 191 days at 7 hours a day. That doesn't seem like much, then you add on the meetings at least every Monday. Then you add on all the professional development that we must maintain to stay certified. This is professional development that is not completely paid for by the county. We have to have a master's degree after ten years of teaching. The county pays only $250 a credit. What university has graduate level classes for $250 a credit?
Those of you saying that teachers get paid enough. How many hours of work do you take home each evening or over the weekends? I spend easily 20 hours at home completing work because there is no time during the school day. I get a 45 minute planning period which I use to get my materials ready for the day. Then, during my lunch, I usually grade papers. After school I complete lesson plans for about an hour, and then I bring home the rest of my grading and lesson planning.
This does not account for the duties a teacher must perform outside the school day. We have to attend sporting events and dances and plays.
I am responsible for making sure your child can pass the HSA. I am responsible for making sure your child knows enough to get into college. I am responsible for calling you to let you know how your child is doing. I am responsible for your child's wellbeing when he/she is in my classroom.
I challenge anyone who thinks teaching is an easy job to spend a year as a teacher. If teaching was such an easy job, we would not have such a high turnover rate. People go to college believing that they want to be a teacher, then they become a teacher and realize their life is now the 150 students that they teach. They think of their students when they are at home. They become the most important thing in a teacher's life.

I don't think anyone wants to short change teachers. The job requires education, training and patience. The part that I think most folks bulk at is the schedule - summer vacations, long winter breaks etc. If you want to be able to see the teaching profession in the same light as other professions, I think you need to go to a year round schedule. That would allow us to compare the teaching and other professions as apples to apples. It would also help keep our children engaged throughout the year.

I have encountered many people throughout my life, who refer to my job, teaching high school, as "part time." I often smile at this, because while teaching is my passion, the time I spend in the classroom in front of students COULD be considered "part time" compared to the myriad other tasks the job as "teacher" entails. Phone calls, emails, paperwork, professional development, meetings, conferences, coach classes; Oh yea- not to mention lesson planning.

To clarify for those who are unfamiliar with the teaching profession, although I have an inkling the only people who care enough to read this are teachers, to plan a good lesson takes time. To design and implement a lesson that truly engages students, sparks their imagination as well as their critical thinking skills, while implementing the VSC (voluntary state curriculum) as well as addressing standards, differentiating and encouraging all students to participate to their full capabilities is not an easy task.

While I do only get paid for approximately 6.5 hours a day, I can assure anyone who wants a play by play of my day- that there is not a single day that goes by during the school year (191 days for teachers) that I do not exceed this time frame.

Of the other 174 days, most teachers are: working a second job, attending graduate or other professional classes, attending conferences, interning, teaching summer school, assisting with staff development and/or other programs within their school or district as well as trying to regain their mental capacities in order to start fresh again in August.

How anyone could claim that teachers do not deserve anything but the utmost respect and professional pay is beyond my reasoning. I hope whomever made that claim, seriously reconsiders after reading REAL information from REAL teachers.

Professional athletes are overpaid
Movie "stars" are overpaid.
CEOs who make over 300 times the salary of their average worker are overpaid.
Teachers are UNDERpaid AND under-appreciated.

Cost of living has gone up incredibly the last few years. Why would people ever think we don't deserve at the very least a cost of living raise? Between BGE and gas prices many of us are barely making it. Teachers work hard-your person who made that comment is a complete idiot.

I have taught for more than 30 years in 5 different school systems - third grade to eighth. I will challenge all schoolboard members, legislators, supervisors and any and all parents to spend days shadowing one teacher in each - elementary, middle and high. You cannot have a clue what we do unless you experience a teacher's day first-hand. School is not the same as when you attended many years ago. It is pathetic that we have individuals making all these decisions for us when they have no direct first-hand recent knowledge of what we do day in and day out!!!!

I can truly go on for hours about the teaching profession having many friends and family members in the profession. To be a good teacher requires a significant time planning, grading, attending meetings and professional development hours. This goes well beyond the "7 hour day with summers off". I can think of other professions that earn more money and have so much less of an impact on society. Truthfully I can think of sales reps who spend more time in their cars or customer service reps who spend more time smoking cigarettes.

The truth of the matter is that the cost of groceries is going up as well as gasoline prices, electric bills etc. Compound that with the fact that employees are being asked to pay more in benefits and then take home pay will be less next year for teachers.

Teachers are NOT asking the county to go into debt. There is a surplus and a cost of living allowance is not too much to ask for.

I am a teacher in Baltimore County as well, and, unfortunately, I think many people have the same notion as Kevin. The general public believes that winter holidays, spring breaks, and summer breaks are justification for teachers' earning less money than our "other professions" counterparts. The reality is that during those breaks, many teachers still work, even though we are not "at work". Winter and Spring breaks are opportunities to develop lesson plans, grade papers, revise classroom procedures, etc. Summer Break is prime conference/workshop season for teachers (so we don't have to take time during the academic calendar to attend said conferences, something that would depreciate the education of my students). Many teachers use the summer to take the courses we HAVE to take to maintain our certifications. Many of us also use the summer to prepare for the upcoming school year. I reported for training and in-processing as a new BCPS teacher on August 3, 2007. When would this in-processing take place in a year-round educational environment? The reality is even though we "only" work 10 months out the year, we never stop working. The education of the next generation is not a "180 6-hour day" task, it is a year-round dedication to the goal, and teachers deserve to be fully compensated for our efforts.

Good teachers are wildly underpaid.

Bad teachers, which there are many, have a neutral or negative influence on children's lives. They are babysitters more than they are educators. These people are overpaid. Now I think it is up to the principals to identify these "teachers," not the HSAs. Standardized test scores favor kids with better educational backgrounds, better families, and better economic situations. These things the teacher has no control over. A public school teacher at Catonsville high school can do a worse job then his/her counterpart at IBE Walbrook and his/her kids will score higher on the HSAs.

I'm an 8th grade teacher in Baltimore County. I come from a family of teachers that tried to talk me out of the profession because of being underpaid and overworked. I knew what I was getting into. What I didn't know was how ignorant the general public was about what my profession required.

I get to school before 7am each morning. I'm not required to be on duty until 7:40. I spend my mornings running copies, planning lessons, emailing parents, calling parents, grading papers, etc. I attend meetings during my planning time, therefore forfeiting that time to plan. Once I start my classes for the day, I try my best to control overcrowded classes where a lot of students have no desire to be there. I am a positive role model to many students who have no one else to look up to. I serve as the mother to students whose parents care more about being a friend to their child than a parent. I teach the required objectives and indicators to my students while still trying to teach them how to be decent human beings. I am fair to all my students regardless of what my personal feelings about them may be. I spend my lunch time tutoring students, helping students complete make-up work, calling parents, conferencing with other teachers and/or parents, and if I’m lucky, eating.

After school I can contractually leave at 3:00. Every Monday I have a meeting until at least 4:00. On Tuesdays I tutor students at school so that we can hopefully improve their skills so that they can pass the MSA. On Wednesdays I stay after school to help students that need help with their writing, grammar, reading comprehension, organization skills, etc. On Thursdays I stay after school to again help students. I leave school at 3:40 and go straight to my graduate class until 7pm. Most Fridays I try to reward myself by leaving school before 4:00. Once I’m home each day, I take care of personal things like walking the dog, starting dinner, working out, etc. After dinner, I generally spend another 3-5 hours grading papers, emailing parents, or planning lessons. I’m lucky if I make it to bed before 11pm. That time gets pushed back considerably if it is report card or interim time. I try to keep my weekends as free as possible because my husband travels for his job and we try to spend time together then. Unfortunately, this usually doesn’t work out and I spend 10-15 hours a weekend doing more school work.

Now I don’t usually complain about my job. I love what I do and realize that I’ll never make what I deserve. What ticks me off is when people assume that I don’t deserve a raise because I only work 6.5 hours a day and 191 days a year. I spend more time working in 191 days than most people spend in 365. I agree with the others that have said that those who don’t believe we deserve AT LEAST a cost of living increase should spend some time in the shoes of a teacher. Then maybe you’ll realize that if you want to keep good teachers in schools, you need to reward their work and pay them what they deserve.

I only skimmed the comments above, but consider that, for instance, a high school teacher has a face to face meeting with _____ number of students, ______ number of times a week. Frankly as others have said, it is "intense."

I have hundreds of interactions. If I give out, say, three graded assignments per week, that is 450 items I must review.

Average employees of corporations? 220 days a year of work? I work 190 days per year, and I guarantee you that the amount of work compressed into this time is equal of greater than many other professions which are paid much more. I worked the other side pretty successfully and know all about this. In the time off during the summer? I take classes, seminars, catch up on reading within my discipline, and generally do a lot of upfront curriculum revision.

Teachers are held in much higher esteem within many other societies; only those who are ignorant talk about it as a "babysitting" function. This is why many leave when those children of parents that have not been well parented "$H#T" all over the teacher.

An addendum to the comment made by a Baltimore County Teacher (in support): the old situation with the city and county was that when teachers in the city got tired of putting up with the ineptitude of the city system (or discipline issues with kids, or __________________fill in the blank) the panacea was to "move to the county"; People perceived it was better because kids were better, more support from families, etc. So the labor market followed the middle class flight from the city, as this is a basic economics lesson of supply and demand.

More supply = less$$$, more competition; the County has had an easier time meeting their labor needs because there are always people applying. It is only when demand exceeds supply that you begin to see wages move up, which is what has happened to a lot of the other jurisdictions.

Some economist will figure this out, but probably not at the behest of the unions, but because they come up against a wall in hiring. Then the $$$ will flow. If County teacher is feeling underpaid by $9k, come to the city. We still have a shortage!

I have been a teacher in Baltimore County for fourteen years so I can enlighten those who believe teachers are overpaid. First of all, we do not have "summers off"! We are on a ten month contract and only get paid for ten months. In order to make the mortgage payment, BGE, etc. in the summer months most of us work other jobs during that time. Yes, we get holiday breaks...don't people in the business world get something called vacation time? Our vacation time is planned for us and is during peak travel times when it is difficult and expensive to travel. We get three "urgent business" days in ten months...that is three paid days to take care of meeting the plumber who is coming to fix the broken sink, attend your own child's school events/field trips, or have an enjoyable day to yourself.And when/if we use those days, we are responsible for planning a full day's plans; outlining the whole day, plans for every subject, copies of all needed papers, charts and posters done...in other words it is more work to be off. How about when a family member passes away or you are sick as a dog? Sorry, we still have to write plans and have everything prepared. The job gets more and more difficult every year. More and more is piled on without anything being taken away. Between meetings, papers to grade, reports to write, lesson planning, grad classes, report cards, conferences, etc. teachers can put in 12 hour + days...I have had many! And let's talk about being treated like a professional...NOT. In the business world you get paid to go to conferences, in the teaching world we pay out of our own pockets. In the business world, you go to meetings with coffee, refreshments and sometimes even a catered meal. We go to meetings where it is exciting if they have bottled water and cans of soda. Teachers are leaving the profession in droves and it is no wonder why! We LOVE the children dearly, but are tired of being overworked and UNDERpaid. So to the reader who thinks we earn too much, you look at your mortgage, rising BGE bills, the prices at the gas pump, the increased health care costs, the increased taxes and decide whether hard-working people deserve to make LESS next year than we do now!

I would have to agree with the original comment about teachers being overpaid, IF teachers really only worked 6.5 hours a day. But the thought of that makes me laugh. I would invite your reader to take my place in the classroom for one week. He would be able to see how that 6.5 hour day begins at 7am and often doesn’t end until 7pm. It’s a dream or should I say fantasy that teachers have that easy of a life. In addition to planning for 30 classes a week, I am also required to attend meetings before and after school, plan parent night activities a number of times each year, meet with parents and students to discuss their progress or lack there of… the list goes on and on. Once at home, it’s time to start grading papers and projects and before going to bed—oh yes, the rest of those lesson plans for the rest of the week. Bring it on Mr. Teachers are Overpaid, come take the place of a real teacher for one week and then tell me they shouldn’t be paid 10 times more.

In response to Kevin's comment about being able to compare apples to apples:

I am a teacher and so is my husband. We work many hours beyond the workday. I see that isn't enough for you, so here's my challenge to you. We would be more than happy to work year round, but you and others like you will have to treat us the same way employees of the private sector are treated. That means the following:
1. Paid vacation that we can accrue
2. Quartely bonuses
3. Working in airconditioned buildings as well as buildings with appropriate heating in the cold months.
4. Lunch breaks that last longer than 25 minutes.
5. Phones in our classrooms and enough phone lines in the buildings so that we can better communicate with our clients
6. Paid mileage for attending required meetings at locations other than our work location
7. Laptops, cellphones, or other services provided to employees in the private sector
8. A sick day that is truely a sick day where I don't have to do more work - planning and copies - so that I can spend time recuperating
9. Full and immediate reimbursement for resources, graduate courses, and examinations needed to maintain certification and/or acquire advanced degrees
10. Most importantly...a competitive salary - one that I can negotiate

Tell me, Kevin, are you up to the challenge?

It makes me very sad that there is a section of our public that thinks that anybody in education is overpaid. From the administration to the Instructional assistants that work with our nations children no price can be put on what they mean to our Nation and to Democracy. I could state many of the stats and numbers of the hours I work, the demands placed upon me, and the struggle I am facing in supporting my family but I will not. What America must face, the public and our POLITICIANS (JIM SMITH) is that we care about all of our children and that we want to prepare them to be Highly Functional Citizens that create, build and allow our society to prosper and grow. Our children are our dreams, and YOU entrust our teachers in helping to build that dream. What would be the cost to our nation if we do not support our educators? Please think about this.

Thank you Steve! You said it all. And Kevin, learn the facts before discussing a profession you're not a part of. 6 hours a day, 180 days a year? HA! I teach Kindergarten, and for those of you who think its all playtime, think again. Here are just a few things teachers do above and beyond those 6.5 hours we get paid for:
-faculty meetings, as much as once a week for at least an hour
-back to school night, as well as many other evening activities such as Reading night, Math night, etc. (at least once a month)
-calling or meeting with parents when it is convenient for them- sometimes 7 or 8 at night
-taking professional development courses constantly to keep current certification
-completing report cards and writing comments for EACH child
-Serving on mandatory committees at school such as parent involvement, behavior, etc.
-often teachers work extra jobs or teach summer school over the summer break b/c they need to supplement their salary
Not to mention the fact that we teach children how to read, write, do math, socialize, think scientifically and more. Teachers are also subject to frequent review by their principals. For the first 2 years, a teacher is observed 4 times, and more if needed. Observations require planning meetings, then having superiors sit in on class lessons, and then follow up meetings. We do this to make sure our children are getting the best education possible. Shouldn't we have the best teachers for our children? Already many teachers leave after a few years or retire early because of stress, lack of pay, etc. If our salaries are not even competitive with other MD counties, and the county executive is sending a message that's it's not a priority to keep us, it's only going to get worse.

I have read a number of these comments and just wanted to add that my wife, an elementary school teacher, heard the news about the county denying teachers a pay increase from a fellow teacher while they were both at school at 8 pm on friday night planning lessons. I imagine most of the folks that think teachers don't put in enough time were at Buffalo Wild Wings having a beer at 8 pm friday.

I have been a first grade teacher in Baltimore County for 7 years. After all that time in the county, I can barely make ends meet living in a modest townhome on my own. I work at school from 8:20-3:45 running around like a chicken with my head cut off and barely eating lunch. If it were not for my volunteers I would be spending an additional hour or two after school every day to copy papers. There is barely enough time in the school day to take care of daily duties, let alone plan or grade papers, most of which is done at home on my own (unpaid) time. Every year I seem to have my raises sucked away by more taxes, increased pension contributions, higher costs for healthcare, and higher costs for gas and electric bill. I can barely afford to contribute to my retirement. I have been doing graduate school since I left college just go get a few extra thousand dollars in raises. I spend about 15-20 hours a week on graduate work. Since I can't make ends meet with my teacher's salary, I tutor after school and work another part-time job. I also work summer school. I get less vacation time than most jobs. I don't know of any other career in which a master's degree holder can barely afford to make a living. We work hard. Shouldn't we be able to make a decent living like everyone else with a degree? No wonder there is a teacher shortage. If I knew what I know now (that I would work so hard that I would not have a life and be barely able to make a living) I would not have chosen to teach either.

I have been a teacher for over 25 years. I work in school no less than 8 hours a day Monday through Friday, and put in two hours each night to grade papers and continue lesson planning. I make phone calls to parents on my own time. I buy materials from my salary to use in the classroom. On weekends, I put in at least 4 and sometimes in exceess of 10 more hours to prepare to teach the children that I work with. I don't get paid overtime, and I don't have paid vacation. I also don't get paid over the summer that everyone thinks teachers have off. Many teachers have second jobs to make ends meet, and almost every teacher that I know works over the summer to have some sort of salary for the two months that we don't get paid. The only thing that year round school would accomplish is to give us smaller paychecks spread over a longer period of time. Teachers put up with ungrateful parents, difficulty students, politicians holding us accountable for every problem that children have today, and ignorant citizens who haven't any idea what it is like to be an educator. We also are lucky enough to have the greatest rewards - watching children when the lightbulb goes off and they understand what we are trying to teach them, listening to a child to you how much they love being in your class, and enjoying the successes of the students as they move to the next grade.

To your readers and writers who think that teachers are overpaid, compare our pay to athletes and movie stars - and decide which of the three groups deserve the higher salary, those of us who help to prepare our children to become contributing adults in our society or those who show children how to use steroids, drugs, get into fights with papparazzi. Then spend one day in a class with children, preparing everything that you need to teach them yourself, and tell me we don't work hard enough to deserve a raise.

I am a teacher in Baltimore County and I will readily admit that get paid to work 6.5 hours a day...it's just unfortunate that I don't get paid for the other 4 hours per day that's required to do my job as well. And for the record, lunch break...you must mean taking a bite in between the increasing pile of paperwork that I'm required to do. Last time I checked we do have a contract, but it gets violated more than speed limits.

And the government wonders why kids cannot read and our education system is deteriorating. I love what I do, and am so upset that my passion and dedication to help develop the future leaders of our nation are not valued enough to deserve at the very least a cost of living increase. I don't think I can afford to be a teacher anymore. That is the sad truth. All of this talk to retain highly qualified and successful teachers? Well, this sure isn't the way to do it!! This whole ordeal really makes me sick to my stomach especially since it affects children and they are the innocent!!! What is wrong with our Board of Education?

CHECK IT OUT:

In most schools in BCPSS, you will find teachers that have been there for over 20 years and teachers that have been there for under 5. In between, you will find a major gap. Why? Let me tell you my story...

I graduated with a 3.7 from a top tier Undergraduate College with a double major - Biology and Political Science. I then taught for two years, whilst simultaneously earning my MA from Hopkins, graduating with a 4.0. And then, sick of spending more time on paperwork than educating my 200+ children (middle schools have a very acute overcrowding problem), I did what A LOT of people in my position and in my generation are doing: I left teaching.

It may sound shallow, but especially as a guy, I look to the future and wanting to start a family, and a teacher's salary, even at the highest rungs, would prevent me from providing a quality of life for my kids that they deserve. So now, having the proper credentials and work ethic, I am on track to start a career in medicine that will earn me no less than $200,000 in the BEGINNING of my career.

So I ask you Kevin and others who would question the salaries of what should be the most valued and respected segment of our society: how do you plan on having a well-qualified, kick butt Science or Math or Politics or English teacher in your child's or grandchild's classroom in the future? Because current trends suggest we are all going to seek out a position outside education that will pay us what we deserve. You can take that to the bank.

Hi everyone,
Here's an interesting article on the earful that teachers in Tucson, Arizona, recently gave their superintendent.
--- Gina

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0217easier0217.html

I fear that these upcoming comments will either fall upon deaf ears, or will be like preaching to the choir, but nonetheless, I cannot go unheard. I sit here, on our "day off" reading these idiotic comments about how teachers don't deserve a pay raise, and can't help but wonder what is wrong with our society? I do not know a single teacher who works "180 days, 6 hours a day." I for one, am a special educator in a Baltimore County middle school who has never taken a day off. Not only do we have to plan for our four different classes (yes I do teach math, language, world cultures, and study skills), attend staff and professional development meetings, take additional college courses, serve my required evening duties, provide after school study sessions, but i also have to manage the education of students with special needs through an IEP (individualized education plan). All of this "part-time" work, leaves little time for me to work my actual part-time job in order to make ends meet--and don't forget that many special education students need ESY (extended school year --summer school) in order just to maintain their current skill level, which I work annually. Not to mention spend time with a husband who feels second-best to my students. It's sad to see our education system being run by those who have no idea what we do, and decisions being made for us by people who could care less about filling this monstrous teacher shortage. If teachers actually worked 180 days and 6 hours a day, then possibly people would realize what teachers do. Maybe if we spend less time dealing with the uneducated parents and public, we'd be able to almost fit our work into the 7 hour day!

Here's the real kicker...
My husband and I are on a step within the payscale that does not provide a step increase for next year. To add to that, our new pension system is taking an addition 1% of our earnings from us next year. That means that between the two of us, we have 2% less take home pay in each paycheck.

How can anyone allow that to happen in these economic times??? Where's our association? Where's our Board of Ed? Where's our Superintendent? I sure hope he doesn't get a pay raise!!

Unbelievable is all I can say to anyone who is naive enough (or stupid enough) to think that teachers have a cushy job!! Can there be people out there who really think teachers work 6 hour days for 10 months a year? Let me invite you into my classroom and see what you think then? Teachers get a WHOLE 50 MINUTES of planning time during the 6 1/2 hour workday. I never have time to actually plan my lessons during this time because I have too many other things to be setting up in my classroom. When does this genius think teachers plan lessons (I teach reading, writing, math, science, and social studies daily), grade papers, write report card comments, make phone calls to parents, attend school/PTA functions,run after-school clubs, attend staff meetings, go to mandatory professional developments, etc.? I can't even use the bathroom when I want to. I have to 'hold it in' because I don't have the freedom to go to the bathroom except during my planning time or during lunch. And what about this 10 month a year deal? Many teachers are the sole support of their families (I am) and need to find other employment during the summer in order to survive. Check out summer camps and see how many are staffed by teachers. Let's not forget too that in order to keep our certification current, we CONSTANTLY have to take graduate courses (should we be doing this during our cushy 6 1/2 hour workday too?) Unfortunately, the public perception of an educator's job is SO WRONG. I can't tell you how many teachers' marriages are jeopardized because husbands/wives get angered by the long hours their spouses work over and above the cushy 6 1/2 hour workday. One only need spend a day in a classroom to know what a difficult and demanding job teaching is. I deal with 23 five-year-olds with no assistance and I am responsible for teaching them to read, write, add, subtract, etc. etc., all the while dealing with disciplinary and behavioral issues. I am so exhausted that most nights I go to bed before 8:30 pm. Most of our younger teachers who have less than 5 years leave the profession because they 'want to have a life'. To make this cushy job even more fun, the curriculum changes every year.Things are added, but nothing is ever taken away. I was silly enough my first year of teaching to think that if I worked very hard and made up all my lesson plans, I would never have to do it again. Who knew that the curriculum would change EVERY YEAR and I would not be teaching any of the same things that I did that first year. And there's even more fun! We get to have administrators come into our classrooms several times a year and observe us teaching (while writing down every single thing we say) even if we have been teaching for 30 years. How degrading is that? Many of us have way more experience than a lot of the administrators who are rating our teaching skills. How sad that the jobs that truly matter to our society -- police officers, firefighters, teachers -- are always undervalued and underpaid. Why is it that every surrounding county can afford to give teachers pay raises, but Baltimore County cannot? Maybe that's because of our wonderful county executive, Jim Smith,who asked the Board of Ed not to include salary increases for teachers. Do you know why he doesn't care about public school teachers' salaries? Because his granddaughter, who used to go to pre-k at the elementary school where I teach, goes to PRIVATE school now. For all I know, all of his grandchildren are in private schools. He should be ashamed of himself. How can Baltimore County expect to attract and retain teachers when there is already a teacher shortage and surrounding counties are budgeting 5% increases for their teachers. Even Baltimore City teacher salaries are higher than ours. Parents are pulling their children out of public schools at an alarming rate and private school enrollment is increasing exponentially. No one goes into the teaching field for the money -- that's for sure!! What attracts people to this profession is the intrinsic satisfaction most teachers get from helping children learn. But we still deserve a decent living wage. If I calculated the extra hours I spend over and above my '6 hour workday', I would probably be earning less per hour than the average teenage babysitter. My advice to this reader who thinks teachers don't deserve raises is simple -- Don't talk about things you know nothing about, because obviously you know absolutely nothing about the teaching profession.

How sad that there are people who exist that truly do not understand the how hard teachers work. I have been teaching for close to two years. I work each evening grading papers so I can adjust the next day's lesson according to my students' needs. I also work on the weekends improving lessons and creating news ones as needed. I have a family and often feel guilty that I spend time on work when weekends are really meant to spend with family and friends. As far as being "off during the summer" many of us are taking courses to keep our teaching certification valid. There are many workshops we attend to be sure we stay current with latest teaching practices. To say that I am overpaid is simply ridiculous. Anyone who thinks that should step into my shoes for just one day. I guarantee they would change their mind!

I am a Baltimore County teacher and last year I was sent the following email "'Do the Math" - (It is right on the "money!")

SICK OF THOSE HIGH PAID TEACHERS?

I, for one am sick and tired of those highly paid teachers. Their hefty salaries are driving up taxes and they only work nine or ten months a year!
It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do...baby-sit!

We can get that for less than minimum wage.
That's right...I would give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked, not any of that silly planning time. That would be $15 a day.

Each parent should pay $15 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.
Now, how many students do they teach in a day... maybe 25 (average)?
Then that's $15 x 25 = $375 a day.
But, remember, they only work 180 days a year!

I'm not going to pay them for any vacations. Let's see... that's $375 x 180 = #67,500.00 (Hold on, my calculator must need batteries!)

What about those special teachers or the ones with Master's Degrees?
Well, we could pay them minimum wage, just to be fair.
Let's round it off to $6.00 an hour.
That would be $6 x 5 hours x 25 children x 180 days = $135,000.00 per year.

Wait a minute, there is something wrong here!!
(There sure is!)

So, to all my fellow teachers, I say we settle for minimum wage!

Gina,
I am a fifteen year veteran of Baltimore County and I just read the Arizona article and have to say that the teaching profession does not see similar articles in the Sun. If the public was more aware of what we do then maybe a 2% cost of living increase would be seen as an insult and not a gift. What organization in the country would allow 20% of their staff to work for less money next year? The most senior teachers never have a salary step increase after year 26, so without a cost of living increase then each year our most experienced teachers work for less every year. Would that our superintendent was just as concerned about his teachers as the Arizona superintendent. It is an outrage that our representative to the Board and County government does not support his teaching staff. Why have not the Sun reporters and the editors probed the superintendent as to why he did not include a salary increase in his budget? Is it in retaliation to the opposition to some pet programs or something else? Rhetoric does not place food on the table, staplers in our classrooms or time in the day.

I have to say that I am very relieved to see how many people have spoken up for what is right. My husband is a teacher at a BCPS high school and when he told me about the comments made by this reader I was furious.
I would like to share a story with those of you who have seen what our spouses go through as teachers. When my husband and I were dating, he lived a state away and I was working retail so I didn't have days off on the weekend. Consequently, on the days when he could come to see me, he would leave at 5pm after doing his planning and so forth to meet me here at 7pm. We would then spend from 7 to about 11 together and he would get up at 4:30am to be back to his school at 7am. He did this for over a year. Now he works for BCPS and he gets up at 4:15am (often earlier due to chronic stress related insomnia) to get to work at 7am (he has to fight through Baltimore rush hour like the rest of us). He is in school until he has to pick up his son at 3:45 then he comes home and works from 4 to 9 preparing objectives, writing lesson plans, planning labs and grading papers for a group of kids who do not care enough to pay attention in class or answer questions on a test. If he is lucky enough to finish at 9 then I might get to see him for an hour before he has to go to bed, to exhausted to keep his eyes open.
You can tell me that this is what every first year teacher goes through but I can tell you two things in response; I watch him killing himself every day trying to make a difference in the lives of kids who just don't care and I spent more time with him when he lived two hours away from me than I do now that we are married. He isn't supported by the parents of his unmotivated and disrespectful students, by his administration who is telling him that he doesn't deserve a raise to kill himself for another year and who determined from some unknown reason that special ed kids should be put in his accelerated classes, or by his union who has managed to convince teachers that "its against your contract to strike" which has to sound ridiculous to some one besides me. Isn't the point of a union to assure fair treatment for a group of workers? Isn't one of the purposes of a union to organize a strike if the employees are being treated unfairly? Does it seem fair to anyone that teachers are being denied a raise when school populations and cost of living have both increased this year? Meager as it is, this is my way of showing him support; joining those who have raised their voices at the injustice being done to those who work the hardest to educate the future.

So, Baltimore County School Board passed a $1.18 billion spending plan that includes money to buy computers, expand academic programs and reduce kindergarten class sizes for the coming school year. Most board members, while casting their vote against salary increases, lamented the economic necessity of failing to provide for teachers who embody such an important faction of our community and larger society. Quoting your article, “Murphy said: ‘The board has great appreciation and sentiment for teachers. It was a difficult decision, but we're trying to be as realistic as we can. We're trying to be as fiscally responsible as we could be.’ ”

Was anyone looking at the surplus? We are the highest taxed state in the USA! Baltimore County government has a multi-million dollar surplus!

My questions for Baltimore County school board members are simple: Who will use these computers, teach these kindergartners, and split up these larger classes in order to make the board’s economic commitment to taxpayers responsible?

My advice to Baltimore County taxpayers is spare no expense in hiring a “top notch” real estate agent. (You know the kind who are paid very well to do a top notch job.) If one needs to be reminded of the causal relationship between a decent neighborhood school and a decent property value, take a “field trip” to East Biddle or Poplar Grove- once considered good neighborhoods.

When more teachers leave a school than stay, schools become “transitional.” Parents chase better schools and in their haste to “get out” property values plummet. Baltimore County hires 600-800 teachers each year, who typically stay long enough to earn an advanced degree, paid for by Baltimore County taxpayers, and then QUIT! Some choosing more competitive salaries in neighboring districts, but sadly, many leaving the profession altogether.

No need for me to do this because, as a BCPS teacher, married to another BCPS teacher, we had to move nearly to Frederick- unable with our combined advanced degrees, to finance a mortgage within the county we teach and a college education for our children. Now, thankfully, they are out of college. One, much to our chagrin, became a teacher; another (who vowed never to become a teacher) is earning her 2nd Master’s Degree as a Physician’s Assistant. (She will earn more money in her first year as a P.A. than either of her parents make with nearly 50 years of combined service to BCPS.) And the third is a filmmaker from whom I am trying to commission a film: a reality show, a day in the life of a teacher which will truly reveal what a “posh” job I have.

People, who believe that teaching is an easy (part time!) job, should avoid making public statements which reveal an embarrassing naivety. Half of all teachers, not just in Maryland, but in our country, leave the profession within 5 years. Why? Because it’s a cake walk? Who would object to making a $40,000 salary for part time work?

I can think of only 1 other profession who gets paid for delivering during the day and then preparing for the next “delivery” session that evening and on weekends: Attorneys! Attorneys, by the way, do not make $40,000 a year with an advanced degree and the requirement to continue their education or lose their license to practice.

I teach 6 hours each day. But delivering instruction is only 1/3 of my job. To adequately prepare for each one hour of instruction, one must allow at least 2 additional hours to research, align standards, synthesize curricula, write materials, gather resources, technological support and make copies! That’s 12 hours for that one day... so far. After instruction, I need to assess who got it and needs to be enriched or who missed it and needs remediation. That will take at least 1 hour for each hour I taught, another 6 hours. Are we up to 24 hours per day? And, it takes at least 40 hours from start-to-finish, to complete one quarter’s report cards distributed four times per year- a typical “work week” that we must complete on our own time. Notice, none of this description involves parental communication daily from 7AM often until 8PM. After that hour, I find that I can no longer speak.

To juggle this load, I awake at 4AM, arrive at school around 6:30AM; Stay until 5PM most days and then grade papers for at least an hour after arriving home (remember that commute). I grade the rest of the stack of papers for 5-6 hours on Saturday and plan for the upcoming week all day Sunday. I resent having to give up my life because of the occupation I chose. That’s why I tell every student teacher with whom I come into contact to run for your life. I only had an opportunity to respond to this because I am home sick- (working to provide substitute plans in my absence to keep 82 kids safe and, hopefully, learning for 6.5 hours in my absence) since we live, breathe, and work in a biological Petri dish!

Perhaps the school board should do their homework. Read this excerpt from, College Board Calls for ‘Drastic Improvements' in Teacher Salaries and Working Conditions:
“This is an investment, not an expense,” the report says. “It is a fantasy to believe we can attain educational excellence while teachers are among the poorest paid college graduates in the country.”
The College Board, calling for “drastic improvements” in teacher quality and the conditions of teaching, released a set of recommendations today that includes an immediate increase of 15 percent to 20 percent in teacher salaries as well as a 50 percent pay hike within the “foreseeable future.”
“This is about globalization, about innovation, and about the future of our children,” said Gaston Caperton, the president of the College Board, which sponsors the SAT college-admissions tests and Advanced Placement courses. [Sic] And that demands better and better teaching, and attracting the best people into the teaching profession.”
He said the goal of a 50 percent salary increase was “very realistic” and achievable through a partnership among federal, state and, local branches of governments. “It is how we finance the interstate-highway systems, how we finance health care,” he said, adding that education deserves to be a top priority for the nation.
Citing the scale of the “crisis” facing the teaching profession, the report says school districts nationally will have to hire 2 million new teachers in the next decade to account for student enrollment increases, teacher retirement, turnover, and career changes. Meanwhile, nearly half the new teachers who enter schools will leave the profession within five years.
(FOR MORE INFORMATON, Read the report, "Teachers and the Uncertain American Future," posted by The College Board.)

More outraged taxpayers should be holding their elected officials accountable. More teachers would write to editors and blogs such as these (and thank you, Gina, for opening up this forum) except we typically haven’t the time to read the paper, much less a good book, respond to editorials, travel to Annapolis, appear at budget hearings, or walk a picket line- even if it were allowed. There are simply not enough hours in a day...

Who does value teachers? Not our school board. Not County Executive Smith. Not the County Council. Not our governor. Not our superintendent. Not enough parents.

Good luck, Maryland, finding applicants to fill this cushy, “part-time” job.

Lisa K. Meerdter

I am a middle school teacher in Baltimore County. To the person who thinks I only work 180 days a year and 6 hours a day: first of all our contract requires us to work 190 days. We actually have professional development days when the children stay home and we go to work. Secondly, I know I work far more than 190 days because when we have a day off for something like primary elections, I bring home piles of papers to grade. Today we are not at school because of the weather. Will I be sitting on my couch all day watching TV? No, this is another opportunity to catch up on grading papers. I suspected we might not have school today, but I was at school yesterday until 4:45, and after dinner last night I worked for 2 hours on lesson plans. Now, I don't really like to count up the hours that I actually work because it really isn't that important to me. What is important to me is being well prepared with challenging lesson planns, and giving my students timely and meaningful feedback, but let's see, we had a one hour delay yesterday but I still arrived at work at 8:00, only 15 minutes later than I am required to be there on a regular school day. 8:00-4:45 is 8 hours and 45 minutes, plus two hours at home, that's almost 11 hours. Almost twice as long as this person thinks I work. And he/she should know, that is a typical day for me. He/she should also know that I usually put in a few hours on weekends as well. So, am I doing this for the easy hours, the summers off, and the incredible pay? Of course not. I do it because I care about the chilren I teach and want to help them develop the skills they need to be successful. Why do 30% of teachers leave the profession withing the first three years? ("How to Make Great Teachers," Time, February 25, 2008) Probably because they can get paid more, work less, and have less stress doing something else. The annual cost of teacher turnover according to the same article is $7 billion. As a taxpayer, I think that money would be better spent on retaining the teachers we already have.

I've said enough, and I have work to do. The only reason I took the time to write this was because I happened to have an unexpected day off.

Just to reinforce Tammy's comments from 2/16 (in response to Kevin):

1. WORKING CONDITIONS: When I was 7 months pregnant, it was late May and my classroom was holding steady at 86 degrees. I had to use my own money to buy three box fans to circulate the warm air through my classroom. How many corporate jobs require their employees to provide their own warm breezes in their offices? Our school calendar is/was structured to accommodate an agrarian society - not all buildings are suitable for use year-round. And just as an FYI, Kevin, a lot of teachers do work over the summer - writing curriculum and teaching summer school.

2. ON-THE-JOB BENEFITS: My husband works for a big company for a very decent salary. When he has to use the restroom, he can leave his desk at any time and use the facilities. When he needs a drink of water, he can go and get one, and even have a conversation or two around the water cooler. I have to schedule my trips to the bathroom because I can't leave a room full of teenagers unattended. Sometimes, I have students to tutor during my lunch period or planning period, so those "scheduled trips" have to wait. Our water cooler is in the teacher's workroom, where we can continue to multi-task as we rehydrate. We wait in line to use the copy machine (assuming that it is working). We don't have assistants to make copies for us - WE refill the paper, the ink, collate, staple, remedy the paper jams... that is, when we have time during our allotted 45 minutes (see other's comments about how we use our "free" time).

3. COMPARING TO OTHER PROFESSIONS: I used to be a scientist before I became a teacher (it's amazing how much I could be making at a biotech company). When I had to present a paper at a conference, I could easily spend a week preparing for a twenty-minute talk, AND use my work hours to do this. As a teacher, I spend at least two minutes planning for every minute teaching. Guess where I do my planning? Not at school - I've already burned my planning time on the activities listed by my colleagues above. I spend time at home, taken away from my own children, to give the best possible classroom experience to someone else's child.

4. JOB PERFORMANCE: Twice a year, a barrage of administrators file into my classroom to evaluate how well I conduct my classes. But the real job review arrives with my students' test scores. How bad can this be if I'm doing my job, right? Let's see, I don't have too many obstacles standing in the way of my success. I can only name a few things that my students deal with on a daily basis: poverty, mental illness, homelessness, substance abuse, malnutrition, domestic violence, responsibility for younger siblings or even their own children. Aren't most middle-class professionals responsible for managing employees with problems like these? Oh, yeah, they can weed-out workers who don't meet company standards by FIRING them. That way, the management doesn't look so bad. That must be why teachers have such a bad reputation among the masses (and the Feds, for that matter). We can't fire the students who have been left behind by the rest of society to improve our job performance. As U.S. public school teachers, we are too busy providing ALL Americans with the right to an education.

My advice to readers who aren't teachers and who don't understand: think of one of your own childhood teachers, someone you really respected, and give them a call, send them an email - ask them how the profession has changed if you don't trust those of us in the trenches today. Then spend a day volunteering in a classroom. It's draining, physically, mentally, emotionally - the lows are tremendously low, but the highs are amazing. That's why we keep at it. All we're asking for is reasonable compensation for our efforts.

I have never been so outraged in my entire life. I just have a few questions for those that think that teachers shouldn't get paid more money.
When you leave from work, is your work day over?
Do you have to work a second job to make sure that you make enough for the cost of living?
Can you use the bathroom anytime you need during the day?
Can you sit down during lunch and actually take your time and enjoy your lunch? And not get heartburn afterwards from eating too fast?
When you are sick, can you call out of work and not worry about what is going on in the "office"?
Do you need to defend, explain, and prove throughout the day that you are doing your job to the best of your ability?
If you answered "yes" to any of these questions, you are obviously not a school teacher. I have not been in this profession long, but I am already going back to school to explore other options! I love those children that I teach and I take great pride in what I do, but I can't be a teacher, babysitter, parent, therapist, counselor, food nutritionist, and a umpire all in a days work. Teachers have to deal with "difficult" students, some that don't have lunch, students bullying each other, and especially make sure that our students are safe and well taken care during thier learning adventure. Because honestly sometimes it truly is an adventure. I will say that there is never a dull moment, and I mean moment. I commend those educators that have been doing this for many years and I thank each and every one of you, because I don't think that I could ever have imagined what goes in to this profession!

When I began teaching a mere 8 years ago, following in the footsteps of my mother, I felt like I was making a difference in the world. I was taking young children and helping to mold them into contributing members of society. I was giving them the joy of adventure and fun through literature. I was teaching them how to question the world around them to make it a better place. I knew that money would not be my end goal in my career.
Now, eight years later, I am saddened by the changes in education. And also saddened for what hasn't changed. Since when is it appropriate for this society to worship sports players, and movie stars, and pay them the big bucks? Why are children looking up to these people as the role models of society? Citizens like Kevin want to point out that teachers don't work enough hours to warrent a pay raise? How about football players who make millions for playing 16 games, and then make huge bonuses for making playoffs?
CEOs of grand companies, lawyers, doctors, etc, NONE of these contributing members of society would be where they are, if not for teachers.
Taking a poll of other job positions around town, I have found several things to be self-evident:
one- other jobs give their employees benefits such as 15 minute breaks after 3 hours of work, lunch HOUR, bathroom privilages, personal phone calls, internet surfing time, etc.
two- employees have the ability to get their work done, and possibly receive bonuses, without big brother constantly taking notes on their abilities.
three- while some professions ask their employees to continue their professional development, usually these companies will compensate their workers for this continuing committment to their job. Many companies also pay for the actual courses.
Baltimore County requires teachers to get their master's degree or an equivalent within ten years of teaching. So while NEW teachers are getting their feet wet learning all the curriculum, and all the ins and outs of observations, as well as learning how to manage ridiculously large class sizes, the NEW teachers also have to use their personal time and money (which is in short supply) to take graduate classes. Thanks to the legislation of No Child Left Behind, teachers must be highly qualified to teach, therefore teachers must take these courses. Yet, the pay raise from a bachelor's degree to a master's degree is a whopping $5,000. Divided over the ten months, that works out to about $250 per paycheck, and then most of that is taken back by the state and federal government in TAXES!
Speaking of government, I'd like to take minute to thank Jim Smith for the extreme committment he has made to education since he was elected- and I mean this in the most sacastic way possible. Our county is in a recession? The federal has not even acknowledged a recession. YES, we are in a unstable economic time. YES, the cost of living has greatly increased. BUT, amazingly the surrounding counties have the resources to include teachers in their budget, most approving a 4-5% raise. How is it that the third wealthiest county, can not match these other poorer counties in respecting the incredible and important job that teachers are performing every day, for the future of our state?
I feel that teachers are not being unreasonable. We are not demanding a 10% raise, just a cost of living increase to provide for our own families. Teachers spend so much of our personal time to prepare and CARE for other people's children, it is only fair to provide our own families with this. By the way, Jim Smith, how much of a salary increase will you receive next year?

I find it absolutely appaling and disgraceful that Baltimore County teachers are not getting a pay raise next year. I work in the school system as a therapist and rely on those pay raises simply to meet cost of living increases every year. As a therapist I could work in a hospital or rehabilitation center making more money, but I choose to work in the school system because I think it is important to educate and help this society's children. I have at least if not more education than many other professionals (with a master's degree in occupational therapy). In the business world you get approximately a 15% raise as well as different types of bonuses during the year, yet the people who are educating our children and creating the future of our society don't deserve the same respect and consideration that other professionals do? This is absolutely disgraceful. I can't imagine that anyone with children would want them taught by less than skilled professionals. That is what is going to happen if Baltimore County doesn't start working to retained highly qualified and experienced teachers. Many other counties in MD and states in the country compensate their teachers a LOT better than Baltimore County does. Maybe it will take people leaving the field and Baltimore County Schools' test scores falling to the levels of Baltimore City for the county officials to do something about it?

I bet if you multiply the number of comments here regarding the 12+ hour workdays BCPS (and other!) teachers work times 100, you still wouldn't come close to matching the actual number of Baltimore County teachers regularly working what is basically UNPAID DOUBLETIME.

Elementary teachers tend to ignore job actions like "work-to-rule." We may come and go according to our contracted scheduled hours, and we might stop a lot of the after-school tutoring and parent conferences. However, that means we just do a heck of a lot more work at home. We can't make ourselves quit using our own time and money to look for, create, purchase, and modify resources and materials that our little charges need to help them learn. We can't refuse to confer with parents asking for information or help for their children--sometimes the second, third, or fourth child in the family to pass through our classroom doors.

Everything in this profession takes time. And time really IS money. 6.5 hours of my time each school and teacher work day is bought and paid for by Baltimore County--I think about half that cash is courtesy of county taxpayers--my students' parents. The remaining hours on school and work days--as well as the remaining days of the year--are MINE. I have been happily donating my time to a very worthy cause--Baltimore County schoolchildren. Now I am preparing myself mentally to stop this charity work. We (BCPS teachers) are likely to begin a job action soon. I doubt if I'll be able to truly only work my contract hours. But you can bet that I will not be at school after dark. I will eat my lunch at my lunch time. If the copier is unavailable (broken, jammed, being used) during my planning time, there will be no worksheets. Students will "copy and complete" from books or the board, just like in the old days. I will not spend one minute modifying resources, or looking for resources, or making my own resources. I will not type up attractive, upbeat classroom newsletters and copy them on pricey, self-purchased neon paper. All conferences will be held during my planning time--after I have had a chance to use the restroom, get a drink of water, and put on some lip balm! No more teacher-made homework grids to paste into marble books--it takes precious time to plug in the new spelling words, math assignments, and reminders for upcoming events each week. My students will have to copy their homework assignments directly from the chalkboard. My lessons will not include motivating and educational teacher-created PowerPoint shows--skills I learned in a class paid for by BCPS, but will no longer put to use--since it takes time to produce a quality slideshow. There will be no child-friendly, customized worksheets created to improve on weak, confusing, or just plain lousy workbook pages. My students will just have to "make do" with whatever the county has seen fit to provide for them--whether that is computers and printers from a previous century, workbooks with grammar and spelling mistakes, math resources with confusing information and incorrect examples, too-few or non-existent math manipulatives, or teachers who are not paid for the time truly required to even ADEQUATELY perform their duties. That is what is difficult for most teachers. We are not satisfied with providing an adequate education. We expect excellence of both our students and ourselves. We are all-too-willing to give up our own time and money to provide our students with an EXCELLENT education.

Our students and their families need to see what their tax dollars actually buy--and what WE have been throwing in for free!

I encourage all of my colleagues in Baltimore County--especially elementary teachers--to find a way to make the extent of their charity crystal clear to the families they serve. If parents see how little their money actually buys, perhaps they'll speak up for their children. They might insist that the county actually PAY for teachers to provide education--rather than just expecting the teachers to donate it.

Kathy could not have said it any better. As an elementary teacher I am going to encourage my teachers to also work to the rule. Maybe this will finally show the parents how much free time we provide in order for our students to receive a quality education. Baltimore City had a major strike back in the late 60's early 70's and never really recovered from this job action. As a former teacher in the city we basically worked to the rule everyday because we were poorly paid, and given no resources.

I am not working to the rule because I want to hurt the children. The county needs to compensate me fairly for my work and efforts.

All those who believe all we do is work 180 days a year are wrong. First of all I am required to work 191 days, and that doesn't include all the time spent in the summer preparing curriculum for the new year, making new resources, participating in staff developments, and taking graduate level courses so that I can maintain my highly qualified teaching certificate. My private sector friends get at least 4 weeks of vacation a year, if not more. This is PAID vacation which the vacation for teachers is not paid!

If there is no salary increase there are many of my colleagues that will be working for free for 2 days during the year, because of the loss of take home pay. How many of those in the private sector would be willing to have to work 2 days of the year for free.

As a second grade teacher in West Baltimore City, I can honestly say that I would trade jobs with that ignorant individual any day he or she wishes. On any given day I am being cursed at, spit on, bitten, repremanded for my class' behavior, or any number of other stressful occurances, and I teach in a fairly reputable school! I spend 12-15 EXTRA hours per week lesson planning, putting up bulletin boards (mandated by the city), grading papers, creating assessments, and that's not even including attending the two mandatory three-hour night classes every semester (for which I pay from my own pocket). I spent $2400 of my own money this year on supplies and resources for my classroom, because the city simply fails to provide. I make $42,000, and yet with my student loan bills, rent and utilities, I will STILL have to work a second job over the summer.

Anyone who wants to walk a mile in my shoes is more than welcome. Why do people wonder why we need teachers or why the retention rate is so low?! If I made $100K a year, all this *might* be worth it as a long time career, but at the rate I'm going, I doubt I will make it past half of a decade...

It's amazing to me that there are so many ignorant people in the world that believe that teachers are lucky to make the amount of money they make because we only work 10 months out of the year.

I am in my fifth year of teaching at a Baltimore County Elementary School. I currently work three jobs: Teaching Monday-Friday, Babysitting three-five nights per week, and a sales position with an Independent Sales Company. And while I am doing all of these things to "make ends meet", I still need to plan lessons, grade papers, scan tests, enter data into various databases, attend meetings, take classes, call parents, and send emails to parents.

Oh and I also spend 6 1/2 hours per day with a group of 26 nine and ten year olds. I am responsible for teaching them things that they will rely on for the rest of their lives... reading, writing, multiplying, dividing, fractions, Maryland History, and various science topics.

While I'm trying to teach students all of these important concepts I am also playing babysitter, counselor, friend, mentor, and referee.

My work is not finished when I leave school for the day. I spend my weekends coming up with ideas for fun activities to do with my students. I spend over $2,000 a year on supplies and treats for my classroom.

The people that don't think I deserve a raise... how much of your own money do you spend so that you can do your job better? I doubt you spend any. Many have expense accounts, work credit cards, etc. There is nothing like that for us. You either buy it yourself or your students go without.

I know that for many of my students I am the only structure that they have in their lives. I work hard to make sure that my classroom is a safe and inviting place for them.

I will be working to rule and like Kathy said... I will be using what the County has decided is ok for our students. No treats, no fun activities, nothing extra.

So for those of you that don't agree with our complaints and don't think we should get a raise I hope you will explain to your children why school is different... and why they haven't been doing fun things.... and why their teachers aren't around to help them before or after school. And I guess you'll have to pick up the slack... and not rely on us teachers who you think are supposed to be doing all of these things simply out of the goodness of our hearts!

I am a BCPS department chair in a BCPS school, and I work like an animal...as do all of the teachers in the building where I work. I'm up at 5:00 AM, go nonstop until the workday ends, then go home to complete necessary planning, take care of paperwork, and prepare for my college courses (that I need to take to maintain my certification). I go to bed around 11:30 PM, assuming all goes smoothly. My schedule is no more difficult or complex than anyone else's in my building.

The teachers in my department all work extraordinarily hard, and many of them do so while completing Masters' programs and/or taking on second jobs. In the summer, nearly every teacher I know either attends college courses or works full-time.

I regularly get comments from folks who are ignorant of the reality along the lines of,"Must be nice to have the summers off," or "Sure wish I could get paid full-time for part-time work." I try to excuse them, assuming they just don't know the truth. I tell them the truth, and I seldom hear the same comments from the same folks twice.

Baltimore County's govt. is not ignorant, however. They just don't want to spend the money. For whatever reason, they have determined that teacher salary increases are not appropriate or deserved at this time. And I find THAT a lot harder to accept than the stupid comments of unknowing people.

The typical Long Island teacher makes $90,000 per year after 10 years of service. That’s working 6 1/2 hours a day for 182 days. After 14 years, they make over $100K. That’s only their base pay. If they do afterschool clubs, sports, library duty — that more money. Their pension is basically 56% of their final three year average. That means most Long Island teachers can easily make $60K per year as their pension, with a Cost-of-Living-Increase every year. The other day a teacher told me they can make three times their pay in the real world. NOT!

Most of the responses here are from teachers who have never worked in the real world.A lot of us in the private sector have college loans to pay off too...so that argument is a cop out. Entry level 35-40K is pretty darn good in any field.A bigger problem is the crap being produced from the education system.You send us people that can't even fill out a job application..I've even seen HS grads. that can't tell time or indicate where 1 inch is on a ruler.This spew of working 2 or 3 hrs. at home each evening doesn't hold water either.I know several teachers and they arrive at work around 8:00 and are home before 3:30 and do nothing related to education..not to mention summers off,snow and fog days off and never weekend work.Don't complain that you have to teach a class of 20+. until you have to make 100 of them produce in the real world when they can't even tie their shoes.TEACHERS ARE GROSSLY OVER PAID!

Clearly the post by geo shows the difficulty of teaching people to read critically and understand a text. Clearly geo needs to go back and pay better attention to what all the hard-working teachers have taken the time to explain on this page. Geo may know a couple of bad apples in the teaching barrel, but they do not represent the field. And, as many people have said, if the teaching profession is so easy and overpaid, please do join us! Perhaps you can show us how it is done.

I had an employee who was a teacher.She thought it would be an advancement to work in engineering rather than instruct HS math.Started day 1 late..couldn't rise at 4:00AM. Day 3 was asked to work 2 hours OT.Couldn't do it..too tired.Day 3,how many hours do you people expect a person to work? A week or so later,weekend and OT work wasn't going to work out even though she said it was not a problem during interviews.Employee couldn't cope with dead lines..."this is too much pressure".She even had the opportunity to work from home a few hours a week and couldn't manage to log on to the system. In the end she quit,said the bump up in salary wasn't worth the time commitment...I need the "my time".
Clearly,City Teacher needs to be mandated to work at least 50hrs. per week year round and be held accountable for results.Clearly,City Teacher needs to take a walk in the real world.Clearly, I understand this picture better than you think.

I invite you next year to come spend 1 day in the life of a Baltimore City teacher early next year.

1)can't show up late, there will be 30 kids performing in your room

2)get your bladder checked, if you can't hold it you're in trouble

3) Wear something that breaths it is an average of 85 degrees in my room

4)Don't bother bringing lunch, it will spoil in the heat and you wont have time to eat it anyway

5)Be prepared to face and deal with a handful of students who come into the building at 7:30 already angry with life because of the inconceivable issues they deal with at home

6) Don't expect to be able to print, make copies or use a computer...not available

7) Be prepared with strategies for Student A who is severely bipolar with some delisions, Student B who is Emotional Disturbed and poops himself at 11 years old (and it smells great in the heat) Student C who really wants to learn but has no school supplies AGAIN Student D whose dad is the neighborhood dealer and who emulates dad at every turn Student E who needs 1st grade skills in the 7th grade Student F who is crying and wont tell you why
Student G & H who start fussing and stand up to 'step to each other.....and it will go up to Student Z who gets up and walks to class and you better get her back before the principal thinks you are incompetent. All before 9 am .

and FYI Geo---I am a career changer and I used to work half as hard but make 20k more than I make as a teacher with a masters degree. I started at a Fortune 500 making 48k and out of an 8 hour day most of us put in the equivalent of 30 minutes in teacher time each day. I also used to get 3 weeks off, Overtime pay, weekend differential, unlimited office supplies, a cell, laptop, printer, copier, one hour lunches and my allotted 15 min breaks. Protocol was laid out and I was not expected to do any more than my job description called for since that was what my reviews were based on. Oh and I always had very good reviews. Yes, many teachers don't have other experience besides teaching, many do (if you reread the comments there were several who posted)

Geo, you really think you understand? Based on, what, one experience with a former teacher? Like "teacherwhocares, I am a career changer. Sixteen years ago I took a $20,000 pay cut to do a job that has taken over my life. Yes, we get summers off and winter & spring breaks. Unfortunately this doesn't come close to making up for the 40 weeks when school is in session. I have never worked so hard in my entire life. I get to work early and leave late I spend time trying to teach and engage students all day long. I come home, nuke something for dinner and then correct papers and plan lessons for the next day. On the weekends I try to keep Saturday to myself (sometimes this works). Sunday afternoon is spent getting ready for another week of work. After 16 years I can say that my $20,000 pay cut has probably turned into a $40,000 gap. I sometimes reminisce about my clean, climate controlled office with all the office supplies I could ever need, my secretary, my expense account, the prestige that came with the position, the 40 hours I worked.

I have a theory that society undervalues teachers because they think that they know what teachers do simply because they've been to school. Well, perhaps that's because teachers make it seem effortless. What students see is the tip of the iceberg. What happens during the 90 minute class period is a result of hours of preparation. I'm tired of people who give us lip service (teaching is the most important job in the world!) and then treat us like goldbricking idiots.

I don't know what else to really say that already hasn't been said here, but since when did teaching become such an easy job?

I have friends who make $75,000 per year doing nothing in an office and some who barely make $30,000 per year busting their butt through maual labor or other professions.

I guess those who think teachers make too much really don't care about their children's education....or they just don't have children.

Being an English teacher, I suggest all to listen to Taylor Mali's poem "What Teachers Make." For teachers, it is an inspiration, for others who question teachers, well, I think it may open your eyes to what we as teachers actually do in the classroom, molding your children into the fine young leaders of the future.

A substantial body of evidence implies that teachers are not underpaid
relative to other professionals. Using data on household median
earnings from the U.S. Department of Labor, I compared teachers with
seven other professional occupations: accountants, biological and life
scientists, registered nurses, social workers, lawyers and judges,
artists, and editors and reporters. Weekly pay for teachers in 2001 was
about the same (within 10 percent) as for accountants, biological and
life scientists, registered nurses, and editors and reporters, while
teachers earned significantly more than social workers and artists.
Only lawyers and judges earned significantly more than teachers—as one
would expect, given that the educational training to become a lawyer is
longer and more demanding.

Teachers, moreover, enjoy longer vacations and work far fewer days per
year than most professional workers. Consider data from the National
Compensation Survey of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which computes hourly earnings
per worker. The average hourly wage for all workers in the category
“professional specialty” was $27.49 in 2000. Meanwhile,
elementary-school teachers earned $28.79 per hour; secondary-school
teachers earned $29.14 per hour; and special-education teachers earned
$29.97 per hour. The average earnings for all three categories of
teachers exceeded the average for all professional workers. Indeed, the
average hourly wage for teachers even topped that of the highest-paid
major category of workers, those whose jobs are described as
“executive, administrative, and managerial.” Teachers earned more per
hour than architects, civil engineers, mechanical engineers,
statisticians, biological and life scientists, atmospheric and space
scientists, registered nurses, physical therapists, university-level
foreign-language teachers, librarians, technical writers, musicians,
artists, and editors and reporters. Note that a majority of these
occupations requires as much or even more educational training as does
K–12 teaching.

Curious about the data she uses, I went straight to her source, which is here, and now has data through 2003 online that can be queried. Sure enough, her conclusions are right there in the Labor Department data:
Professional or Technical Occupation 2003 $/hr
Technician $20.85
Avg. White Collar, ex. Sales $23.33
Avg. All Professional and Technical $28.37
Elementary School Teacher $31.74
Executive, administrator, manager $32.20
Engineer, architect, surveyor $34.34
Dentist $38.93
Lawyer $46.11
Doctor $52.91

Note that when corrected for hours worked onto a $ per hour basis, teacher salaries are higher than the average white collar or professional worker, and quite competitive with other professionals such as engineers and managers. In fact, if you were to take out private school teachers (which mix the number lower, see below) the average for public school teachers is even higher. Occupations making more than teachers such as doctors and lawyers require much more education and long-term commitment than the average elementary school teaching role.

Source http://www.coyoteblog.com/coyote_blog/2005/05/the_teacher_sal.html

In response to teacherwhocares:I'd like to take the summer off to think about it.

1 Can't show up late or I'll have 100 employees locked out.
2 Your TA can manage for 5 minutes.
3 Production floor is 100f summer,85f winter.
4 A bag of 75cent chips and a Coke,maybe a banana..10min max.
5 A hand full of employees show up at 7:30...2 and a half hours late.
6 Comps. & copiers down.Company loss is $5000. an hour.Can't ask tax payers to cover it.
7 Be prepared to train employees with the same problems.

My question is Geo what is your point? Either you are slow and maybe didn't have the benefit of good teachers or ,more than likely, you were the kid that just never got it no matter how good his teachers were because you thought you were smarter than everyone else.

The point these awesome educators have been making is that our job is more than a 9-5. We work year round before and after work. Why would you pull out figures comparing us to lawyers, accountants or other professions when that has nothing to do with what people are trying to say.

Read this carefully Geo, the first rule of being a good student is paying attention. So Geo why not try and be a good student?

Geo, what you, and the researchers, fail to take into account is the hours we work outside the regular work day. (Not to mention, during our vacations) When I compute my salary based on the actual hours I work, I come up short. Very short. I would also like to point our that having the summer off is not the same as getting vacation time. Teachers are not paid for this time off (and we don't qualify for unemployment). Many of us do, however, spend much of this uncompensated time preparing for the next school year.

Hmmm...I seem to have issues with getting stuff posted to the comments these days (should I take this personally?)...but I'll try again. Sorry if I end up getting two redundant posts:

Clearly Geo is not a teacher, nor does he seem to have any interest in education (i.e. not a parent of a kid now in school). Why is he spending the effort to argue here on this blog?

To quote from wikipedia:
a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community...primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
along with a piece of advice
Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a troll is usually to ignore him or her, because responding tends to encourage trolls to continue disruptive posts — hence the often-seen warning: "Please do not feed the trolls".

Ridiculous posts like this are why I gave up on this blog.However, I can;t pass this up,either. Avalon and Listening sum up my mainpoints well. Summer is forced unemployment and I for one can't afford it! Can most people do without two months of paychecks?

Most importantly, Geo is trying to put forth the same old,worn out arguments. Just simply ignorant.I repeat the offer of another poster. Spend a week or more with me and then talk to me.I have regular volunteers who work with me. Everyone loves to be with me but comments about my long hours and physical and emotional exhaustion.

Teachers in our district continue to get paid as usual all summer .So if one earns $45K per year,they get the $1700+gross every 2 weeks.Benefits continue as well at who knows what cost.It's not a lay-off by a long shot.

In response to Listening is the Key.

I'll try to slooow dooown so you can underrrrstand.
My point is,according to statistics,teachers are NOT underpaid.And FYI, I just might be the kid that did get it.You read this carefully,Elementary School Teacher $31.74 per HOURS WORKED.That is not a guess.It is a fact.That is not underpaid by any means.
Having said that,I have a high degree of respect for education and I did have some good teachers..some not.I suspect my education level to be higher than most of the posters here.(BTW,I had to pay for mine too)Also,I probably EARN 2x what you do,but I wouldn't have the guts to request more with out accountability.In real world economics, your earnings are relative to production,and as I see it, Johnny still can't read and won't be able to even if we throw more money at the problem.The tax payers are seeing it that way too.

We do not get paid in the summer!!!!! I am 60 yo with a Masters. My take home pay is $1500.00 every two weeks from Sept-mid June! What planet does Geo live on? Some systems have a choice of dividing the check over twelve months. Same gross pay. Summer is forced unemployment every year and every year I teach summer school, paint houses,tutor, work at Giant.. whatever it takes to pay for four kids, a couple grand kids, two aging parents and also many of my students who need help. Geo... you are a jerk.Please pay for the glasses for my student that I just paid for. $200.00 plus!!!
Do anything to help out a kid in the city and/or a dedicated teacher or just shut the @#@@#$#$@ up!

Once more with feeling - I know this is hard, but really, it's the only way to stop this silliness -
Please don't feed the trolls
Geo = troll
responding to his bait (that is, replying to his clearly inflammatory posts) = feeding the troll

@ a parent - Geo may well be a troll, but s/he is parroting many myths that people have about teachers. I know this because I (and other teachers) hear them all the time. So, responding to the rather condescending Geo may help to educate those people who are willing to open their minds.

parent: Thank you! Instead of being upset that yet another ignorant person undervalues the profession, I can now spend my endless time off...WINK WINK....envisioning Geo the Troll a Norfkin-like person who obviously never learned that statistics can tell whatever story the author envisions. I used to do it all the time when I worked in finance. Ha Ha...Bitter Troll with very high orange neon hair

Well,it seems as if this forum has been reduced to name calling.Typical response of someone who has no valid argument for a position.
Facts are facts.The ones that I have presented are just a sample, many more support my view.
I have never claimed that a teachers job is easy.All I have done is respond to the question at the top of this page,that is,What do you think? Are the county's teachers asking for too much? Or do they deserve a pay raise?
Let's go this direction.If I were to concede that a teacher put in,let's say 50 hours a week for 50 weeks a year,which is a reach to the moon,that's still $17.00+ per hour plus the best benefits in the country.And that is at entry level.Prove me wrong and I will accept it with out name calling.

Well,it looks as if the direct deposit summer vacation is drawing to a close.I suspect you all have your lesson plans drawn up for the next school "year".

I worked four part time jobs this summer and had no vacation. Mortgage and bills are paid. Lesson plans? Next task.Geo, do you want to offer me a job at 2X my salary? Do you want to spend a week with me? You ignored that offer.

Wise Educator:
What dollar amount do you feel you should be earning as an educator?Would $100k a year enable you to be more proficient in your chosen field?Before you get out your calculator,that's probably a reasonable representation of your compensation with benefits now.And that is for 180-190 days!
I suspect you may have personal finance issues if you need four part time jobs to maintain your standard of living while earning a teachers salary and benefits.You are damn lucky to even have a job in this economy.My prediction is you can expect a REDUCTION in compensation in the future.

If you're unhappy,there are plenty of unemployed teachers who would take your spot.Just one example... http://www.proteacher.net/discussions/showthread.php?t=21838

Just so you know, I will no longer respond to your posts.I have important things to do. Have a nice day.

I believe spirited debate is good for everyone. We are fortunate to live in a time that we can express our opinions in public forum.Wise Educator,whether I agree with you or you agree with me is not what the focus should be,nor what is really important .It's the passion for a position and the liberty to defend or promote that position that is paramount.
I wish you good luck and success in your endeavor.

I told you so.

I read the majority of the comments. One underlying theme seems to pervade. A typical government worker attitude of a "persecution complex," when criticized, a typical attitude of entitlement the government worker usually displays while flexing their union muscle in everyone's face, and the pathetic "poor me," attitude cause " I don't get paid hazard pay for being a disciplinarian in class," or " travel pay for a trip to the bathroom."

Grow up but then again maybe you can't because you never really left school. And if thing are that bad get a real job in industry or can't you cut it?

John Q,
Don't expect too much of a response as most of our overpaid government employees now have a beach or patio umbrella in one hand and the other in our pocket for the summer.Meanwhile, their product can't fill out a summer job application. About the end of August when they realize they'll have to start showing up for a 35hr . week you'll have some luck LOL.

Why is there even a controversy about public school teachers being overpaid? I don't see articles about over the hill athletes being paid millions or letters to the editor about paying a lawyer $200.00 an hour. Teachers are the first step to every job and yet some how there is a verbal war on the profession right now. In many other countries that have students attaining far higher results on comparative tests than America, teachers are paid in the upper percentage of all workers and are held in high esteem. Most teachers today not only provide content instruction but also deal with social, emotional and personal issues. I have students with ankle devices as a result of court order. Some are in foster care as a protection from abusive family members and some are even homeless. Jon Q. Public really has no idea what a teacher provides to America's students. Given what we do, you are getting a bargain.

Interesting but long-suffering debate. I believe many *good* teachers are both mistreated and underpaid in the public systems. Problem with comparing teacher's salaries with private industry salaries is one of market-driven values. Private sector professional (which are overwhelmingly non-union by the way) job compensation levels are determined by value contributed to the end product which has a finite sales revenue amount. Private sector jobs therefor are competitive and salaries are dynamic based on individual performance. There is no tenure in the private sector job market. Layoffs and terminations are always the risk. Teacher's unions have sheltered poorly performing teachers for decades. That is not arguable - we see the results of those poor performers every day in too many failing and undereducated young adults trying to enter the job markets. Teachers want respect? Get out from under union contract protection and submit to merit-based compensation. Then those teachers who excel will earn both better pay plus genuine respect from the rest of us.

To Bari,

Yours may be the best post on this forum.

Well my prediction has come true! The chickens are coming home to roost and I love it. I bet this opposition would be less if we were in the middle of another summer break LOL..
What a good chance to call in "sick"on the tax payers dime....oh wait,it's for the kids...another LOL.

You think teachers are overpaid? Look at their cars, their houses, their clothes, whether they sit coach class or business on planes, where their kids go to school. Lets then compare that to the incomes of those who do similarly difficult jobs-- Doctors, lawyers, anyone who manages 30+ employees at a time.

You are angry at public sector employees because we kept our unions-- were able to stick together and fight for our rights? Well, it is too bad unions could not keep a toe-hold in the private sector-- they were the ones that won the 40-hour work week, the weekend, workman's comp, fair pay for fair work. If you are against unions, you are ultimately asking to go back to slavery-- or sharecropping, or serfdom, or child labor, or whatever the poor man did before collective bargaining.

Robin Bingham

Here here, Robin!

I'm saddened that there are people who are happy that almost 200,000 people may lose the basic right to negotiate their work conditions.

Geo, I think the points you made that were most convincing were those that recognized that there are differences in quality among teachers, and that our industry and pay doesn't reflect that. One thing that you should keep in mind is that many districts, for better or worse, are heading in this direction. City Schools for example, is looking to reward teachers who improve their practice or demonstrate extra work that leads to student achievement. Like most privileges, teacher tenure can be abused, but it's not fair to teachers to say that we're uniformly of bad quality because some are.

Likewise, I also don't think it's fair to blame teachers for the failure of the educational system. Yes, true, some teachers have dropped the ball, but so have many parents, many administrators and district leaders and many children (that's the thing no one wants to admit - some of our children lack the work ethic to be instructed and learn successfully, and there's little a teacher can do to move an obstinate student.) The important thing is that to some extent when parents, students and admins drop the ball, teachers are still expected to perform.

However, the points that you made that are least convincing are the ones where you cite numbers. At one point you used numbers that assumed teachers worked 7 hours a day, when the vast majority do not. When you conceded a 50 hour work week (which is still unrealistic for many) you came up with $17.00. I can think of very few jobs that pay $17.00 and hour and require the type of interpersonal, communication and intellectual skills that teaching requires. And before you think that elementary school teaching isn't intellectual, let me stop you - a successful elementary classroom requires a degree of orchestration and thought that is incredibly impressive. It's far more difficult than it appears.

One more thing: I've never met a high school teacher with a TA. Those positions are fading fast.

I'd love to keep this debate going and civil.

Robin,yes teachers ARE very over compensated especially when the hours worked are considered...less than 1200 hours a year in numerous case studies compared to 2500 hours in private industry with equivalent education investment according to some. To infer that the difficulty level is comparable to doctors or lawyers is absurd.
The reason organized labor unions have lost ground in the private sector is that they broke the banks of management thus those jobs are GONE.The" invisible hand of competition" reigned supreme. Regarding public employees,the tax payer is management and we have had it with the entitlement attitude especially when one evaluates the product coming from public education.Your post makes it clear to me that you are out of touch with reality.We have tried throwing money at the problem with no results,in fact with negative results.The law makers in Ohio and Wisconsin and others see it that way too.

Nadine,
As far as I know,there is no such thing as a basic right to negotiate work conditions.I'd like to play that card on my employer just to see what would happen.
However it looks as if we may agree on merit pay regarding quality of achievement,but it IS fair in my opinion to evaluate teaching results as a group simply because of the very definition of union.The bottom rung teachers enjoy the same benefits as the best. It's fine to stick together,but you all are viewed as one...that is the consequences of organization.Some of the most influential people in my life were teachers but they were compensated equally to the ones who just were there because they had to be.
I do agree with you 100% on the work ethic.That comes from the home.However,that issue is to be dealt with in any field.Everyone is expected to perform...that's the way it is.
I continue to stand by the numbers.There are just too many studies that support my position.Also,there is certainly no shortage of teachers wanting to enter the work place. I have read reports of 100 applicants for every one opening,so simple economics have to come into play too.I suspect that if education was as underpaid and as under respected as teachers contend,the demand would be high for applicants. The small district I reside in has a will call list as long as your arm for a $65.00 a day sub for those qualified.Doing the math,the district could replace every position with an eager applicant for around $12500 a year with NO benefits,NO complaints and NO entitlement mentality issues. My tax contribution would likely be relaxed several K annually with the same results as we get now.

Geo-- most people on this blog are educators or parents-- people who really care about education and spend our lives and livelihoods thinking about it. We also tend to try to stick to facts, and cite our sources when we have them. Perhaps you can identify your reason for your interest-- are you a parent? An educator? Do you have any reason to post besides making us mad?

And what studies are you referring to? Please cite them. I do a lot of reading about education, and have yet to see a study done by a credible institution that supports your claim.

As to labor history-- again, you might try citing your sources. I have begun reading into labor history as current events threaten my future as a teacher. Your allegations seem to have no bearing in reality. Again, please cite your sources.

By the way, I would not consider any of the following sources as credible: Fox News, Glen Beck, Governor Walker, (whose approval rating is fast sinking) foundations whose chief support is Gates, the Walton Family Foundation, or Eli Broad. These foundations have a specific agenda, and have put out studies specifically to support that agenda. For example, a recent study funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation positing that using merit pay improves teaching was later found by peer reviewers to contradict its own data and debunked. Even so, it is cited by numerous talking heads as definitive. If you have a study put out by one of these foundations that is supported by other research, I'll accept it as valid.

Here's one..

http://proxy.milwaukee.k12.wi.us Budget & Finance\Budget Preparations - Reference
FY09
Salary Rates – Employee Benefits Rate – Indirect Rate

Employee Average Hourly Rate Rate + Benefits

Principal
High $87.65
Small high school $72.47
Middle $93.78
K-8 $93.28
Elementary $90.96

Teachers

$59.24

Now consider the LIFETIME PENSIONS.... that are in the neighborhood of 80% of compensation...
FOR LIFE.....

www.milwaukee.k12.wi.us/.../07%20-%20Average%20Salary%20Information-portal-LJ.pdf

Robin,

It's funny to me that you would prefer to pick and choose your sources as credible,but that is typical entitlement mentality.

FYI, I may be a little closer to the system than you think. I also understand that a BA with a teaching "certificate" is NOT that hard to obtain,especially when you consider the time and monetary investment required for other professions you have compared yourself to.Despite what you feel,a teacher is not at the top of the "food chain"in respect to compensation,especially considering the end product of input.

Below is another stat. from a time when the economy was better than it is now.Digest it and understand it.

If you can present a means to generate the funds you feel you are ENTITLED to in a 2011 economy please let me in on it.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), public school teachers earned, on average, $34.06 per hour in 2005. That is 36% more than the average white collar worker and 11% more than the average professional specialty and technical worker, which are the categories in which the BLS places teachers. To give some examples, public school teachers are paid at a higher rate than architects, mechanical engineers, psychologists, and chemists. These earnings figures EXCLUDE benefits, such as health and retirement, which tend to be more generous for public school teachers than other workers. I should also emphasize that we did not calculate any of these earnings figures ourselves. We simply repeated information collected by the BLS’ National Compensation Survey

To close,I'll offer you this...a blank check.What do you think you are worth?That worth being salary and benefits..total package.Don't forget to consider it's for 190 days max.annually.Follow up with a formula to fund your demand and I will concede to your position.

Robin and Nadine.

I'll go out on a limb and assume you and some of the posters here have a "liberal" viewpoint. If I have misinterpreted your positions,I am sorry.If indeed you are of liberal perspective,I am equally sorry.

Below is a quote from FDR,one of the most liberal leaders of the free world in recent history as I know it.

"The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service,"

President Franklin D. Roosevelt wrote in 1937 to the head of the National Federation of Federal Employees. In the private sector, organized employees and the employer meet across the bargaining table as (theoretical) equals. But in the public sector, said FDR

"the employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives in Congress."

Allowing public-employee unions to engage in collective bargaining would mean opening the door to the manipulation of government policy by a privileged private interest.

Whole people means tax payers if you need clarification.

FDR was right. Collective bargaining has no place in the public sector. It inevitably leads to abuse. Favoritism, undue influence, lack of transparency, manipulation of government policy, the relentless mulcting of the taxpayer—this is the poisoned fruit of turning government agencies into union shops. It goes without saying that public employees ought to be as free as anyone else to join professional associations and affinity organizations. They are certainly entitled to all the protections of the civil rights laws and of a reasonable civil service system. But labor unions should have no right of exclusive representation in any government workplace and no right to negotiate wages and benefits with public officials who crave their votes and political support.

Next

http://www.kittycatchats.com/2011/04/teachers-are-overpaid.html

YOU HAVE to read this op/ed written by a high school student and the response of none other than me at the end. Talk about misguided youth!

1. CAN YOU DO MATH? Annual salary means PER YEAR! One day worked or 365 days worked,the salary figure remains constant..NOT PAID FOR DAYS WORKED.If a teacher makes 50k a year, they don't get cut just because they only "work" 180 days a year.I'd like to add that 6.5 or 7 hours a day shouldn't even be considered a work day..let's do 10 or 12 and see the bawling.Don't give us that working at home crap because it doesn't hold water with anybody.

2.EVERYONE pays taxes if you didn't know that.A significant portion of private sector pay 100%. of retirement and 100% of health care.You need to get over that argument.

3.Entitlement mentality at work again.

4.Reduction in work hours is common these days to avoid lay-offs.Some private sector employees have been reduced to a 4 day week year around.Since they work all year that would be 52 days lost..again a math thing.Try that shoe on.

5.Ever take a pay CUT? Don't think so.Therefore another invalid argument.

6.Try out paying 100% for health care and you'll understand how a before tax payroll deduction of a few more bucks a week is a pretty good deal.

It may be that the student has a better comprehension of reality than you realize LOL.

To the Sun,
You are the approver of this blog. Many of the intelligent, insightful bloggers left this site ages ago. (present writer included) Occasionally, I check back hoping to read well written and thoughtful posts related to education. You have the right to not repost ignorant and insulting submissions.(such as Geo)If you want to maintain a blog which is respected and well read, please screen the haters and naysayers. Freedom of speech is fine. Opposing opinions are fine. But pure dribble is not. If you wish to cater to Geo and a couple others, you will soon lose all your serious bloggers.

Chris Christie for president.