In city education circles, everyone is talking about the exchange at Tuesday night's school board meeting between Andres Alonso and Michael Carter, the Parent and Community Advisory Board chair. Carter customarily leads off the public comments toward the beginning of school board meetings. Almost invariably, his comments are both insightful and in excess of the five-minute time limit. And almost invariably, school board chairman Brian Morris and others on the board respond on the spot to whatever Carter had to say, taking Carter's time at the table way, way past five minutes.

This week, Carter was talking about the High School Assessments, and the person to respond was Alonso (after which four board members also weighed in). Carter was critical of the low turnout among city school folks at last week's state forum on whether to scrap the requirement that kids pass the exams to graduate starting in 2009. He was critical that the city school system doesn't have a formal position paper on the tests and isn't reaching out to parents. And he expressed his fear that, with only around 30 percent of the kids in the class of 2009 having passed the tests so far, not much will change in two years and thousands of kids will be denied diplomas. "I do not see a sense of urgency here on North Avenue," he said.

His comments did not go over well with Alonso, who thus far in his three months on the job had avoided any public confrontations. With one hand under his chin and the other wagging at the audience, he fired off a rebuttal. Excerpts:

"I have enormous faith in my ability and the ability of the system to move forward in a different direction. If two years from now, we're still at 30 percent (passing the tests) like we are now, then I haven't done my job, I should be fired, and the community itself and the schools haven't responded as they should. If we assume we're not gonna have an impact in terms of the lives of the students however, whatever has happened in the past, then what are we doing?"

Explaining why he doesn't want to give out meaningless diplomas when kids can't meet basic standards: "It's a shell game. They graduate, and then what happens to them?"

"Is it gonna be difficult? Absolutely, but if we enter the discussion with the assumption that we're going to be at 30 percent two years from now, then what kind of faith do we have on the parents? What kind of faith do we have in teachers? What kind of faith do we have in principals? It's our work to change that. It's not our work to say just because it's gonna get tougher, when we know that it's not working as it is, that it's gonna be fine, that it's gonna be fine if we make it easier. That's not my job. My job is to create the urgency that's gonna make this system move forward."

Board member George VanHook, echoing Carter's call for a plan to be developed and released to the community detailing how the system will get students passing the tests and where it stands on the issue: "I'm not sure, Mr. Carter, whether you're satisfied with the response (from Alonso). I know you're being diplomatic and I appreciate that, but you didn't get your answer, did you?"

Carter to Alonso: "When DREAA (the school system's research division) releases the HSA data in 2009, I'll give Ralph (Alonso's driver) the day off and drive you to the airport if it's not what it should be."  

Alonso, responding to Carter: "That is exactly what I would expect you to do. Let me then also say that, in terms of the plan, there are a lot of people who have been around for the past 12 years as we have been miseducating kids. However -- however -- I've been here for two and a half months trying to figure out where to find the money to educate kids. And the notion that this is going to happen in a week -- hold on, hold on (interruptions) -- or the notion that we're going to somehow put a task force together when our kids are wasting time in school, in order to make the work move forward, that I find ridiculous."