I don't know how innocent this group is or how guilty the bar staff is. It's rather difficult to tell since there's only one side of the story being told here.

The picture that is painted by Mr. Marhall is that of great conspiracy against the innocent bachelor party, the bar staff, law enforcement, and paramedics all conspiring against a completely innocent group.

Meh. Go back to Jacksonville. Douche.

Funny how if it was 2am when this incident did occur why were the still in the bar. 2am is closing time and most bars get their patrons out before then least they get fined for serving after 2am....

Oh and sorry I have maybe >

I had sympathy for the writer up until I read "gold chain."

I agree. I too had a run-in at a bar, although it was with off-duty police from Anne Arundle county.

Me and 2 friends were playing pool on a weekday in a Fells Point bar and left around midnight. There were only about 6 people in the bar, 5 guys and 1 girl, all talking with the bartender as we left. My friend (who is a loud-mouth) made a stupid comment on the way out about how all 5 guys were trying to get with the same girl, or something to that effect. The 5 guys (who as I said, we later found out were off-duty cops) followed us outside, and before I knew it they were beating my loudmouth friend senseless.

My friend probably instigated the confrontation once they followed him outside (I didn't see), but my problem is that while 2 of the cops had him pinned down, the other 3 were actively pushing and yelling at me and my other friend, who had gotten back out of our car upon seeing Mr. Loudmouth getting tackled. The 2 of us made no attempts to get physical with anyone, were merely yelling at them to get off our buddy so we could leave. However the 3 guys who weren't holding our friend spent about 15 minutes trying to get us two to fight them, shoving us and saying things like "what, you want some? You see this, I'm a cop! You're all going to central booking tonight! I'll beat the S__t out of you!" We made every attempt to backpedal and calm them down, never so much as raising a hand to them, yet they persisted in trying to get us to take a swing.

Now it is my understanding that at that point, with the loudmouth guy subdued, it would be the duty of the Anne Arundle cops to DEFUSE the situation, calm everyone down, and get things settled (especially becaues there were 3 of us and 5 of them on the whole street). Instead they wanted to be tough guys, flaunting their police authority and holding it almost as a weapon against us, and making every effort to pull the two of us into the fight. I'm a very even-tempered person, all I wanted to do was get our friend, apologize, and get home. Instead I found myself being shoved and insulted by 3 off-duty cops who were so jacked up on their own self-righteousness that the thought they could beat up whoever they felt like.

Eventually the city cops came, arrested my loudmouth friend who had blood pouring down his face and arms, laughed and made small talk with the AA cops, and left. They NEVER EVEN SPOKE TO ME. None of the 10 city cops there so much as wrote down my name. They took the AA cops' story and left, even though when they first arrived, it was my friend who was being held and kicked by two of them, and me and my other friend being assaulted by the other 3 AA guys. So despite us being the victims at that time, no one so much as took my name, let alone asked for our side of the story.

Yes, city cops have much better things to do than worry about a small bar fight. My only problems are (a) the off-duty Anne Arundle cops acted more like drunk college jocks with roid rage than public servants, and (b) the city cops spent more time making small talk with them (the apparent aggressors, to an objective observer) than asking the people who are bleeding what happened.

Even off-duty cops are supposed to keep the peace. Just because you have a badge, and just because you're off duty at a bar outside your jurisdiction doesn't mean you can be a bully and use your legal authority to stroke your own ego and beat up someone who made a stupid comment as he left the bar. Grow up, I don't live in Anne Arundle County but I'd hope the rest of there police force there is more mature than a drunk jock who uses a badge to act tough. And thanks to the city cops' bias and/or laziness, the 5 of them go about their day as if they're the most powerful people one arth while my friend had to sit in jail for a few days and show up for an assault charge.

Cops answer to us, the public, not the other way around. We pay their checks. "Protect and serve," not "use your authority to push around outnumbered civilians to make yourself feel strong."

@Abject Disaster: I don't see any real suggestion of conspiracy here. It sounds to me like pissy par staff (which I've experienced at the Horse too) and apathetic police and paramedics. I've certainly known plenty of both. BCFD crews frequently have "shift parties" in Fell's Point and Canton bars, so it is not unlikely that some of the medics might have known somebody else who was at the bar.

This is only one side of the story. But given my experience at the Horse and the fact that the city police and fire departments have MANY jaded and apathetic responders (and also MANY truly conscientious people who are worthy of our respect), this is fairly believable. If it IS true, it is a pretty epic fail at many levels.

@Richard: Seriously? What difference does the gold chain make? I have plenty of firefighter friends who wear gold chains with Maltese Cross pendants. Are they somehow not worthy of sympathy because of their chains?

I am living in Baltimore and have frequent the Fells Point area. Some clubs and bars do get roddy at times by over drinking, but no words or word gives anyone the right to even touch another person let alone beat,kick or punch...Trust and believe.. I was taunted and provoked into hitting someone and it was hell getting out of that mess...Best to walk away....(Both sides) But my Mother always say "Your mouth is gonna get your ASS in trouble"

Sounds like 19 less frat punks that we'll have to deal with.

Good news that they caught a beating and won't be coming back to B-more.

As always seems to be the case with all of these stories, everyone involved shoulders some portion of the blame for the incident. Bar patrons should know better than to pick fights with bouncers (or at least to stand back when something is interpreted as such). Bar owners and their bouncers should be given some leeway in removing people who are causing problems but literally kicking people when they are down shouldn't be tolerated. These are matters that should either be solved by level-heads from those involved, level-headed officers who respond to an event and take control, by level-headed discussions days later, or (only if needed) through the courts. A bar owner can't hold on to your possessions until you pay them for some damage. The responding officers should be to handle those things professionally and with a level head. Readers may notice a theme here...

Any kind of excessive behavior from cops (once they have identified themselves as such) should be reported to their command staff if the first few tries in person aren't handled properly. Pushing the issue with an officer who doesn't want to hear it doesn't do anybody any good. Officers on the street should be given leeway to control the street as they see fit. If we don't like how they handle things, we need to question it after the fact once the altercation is over. On the street, the cop is the boss.

http://www.baltimorepolice.org/your-community/your-district/southeastern-district/police-station

http://www.aacounty.org/Police/

FELLS POINT IS FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE DOWN THERE N POLICE ONLY!!!!!! NO ONE ELSE IS WELCOME WHEATHER UR FROM BALTIMORE OR NOT SO DONT FEEL BAD OR THINK DAT ITS OUR HOLE CITY ITS JUST FELLS PIONT TRUST ME!!!!!!

I'm guessing the synicism somehow did not come out in my first post, Cory.

Many of the points could be true--heck they all could be for all I know. The point is that the tone, diction, and imagery of Mr. Marhall's letter/email all read as if his group was completely void of any responsibility whatsoever.

He describes his and his groups actions:

I would gather the group and we would leave and that we didn’t want any trouble

I reacted as I assumed any individual would and tried to shake free of the hold.

Between the phone call and the arrival of the police a frustrated member of our group shattered a window outside of the bar.

The diction here completely downplays any sort of copability by Mr. Marhall's group. Then he lays it on really thick with the crucifix (an allusion to his piety) then a reference to a deceased relative.

Contrast that with the way he portrays the bar staff, paramedics, and police:

my friend defenseless on the ground being kicked and punched mercilessly by other bouncers and friends of the bar manager.

a bouncer grabbed him by the back of the head and slammed his face into a brick wall leaving 2 large gashes over each eye.

When the police arrived it appeared as if they had no concern for what took place.

One of the paramedics deemed our injuries as not severe enough for their time.

Let's do the math: 19 guys + 1 Bachelor Party + 2 a.m. = ????

I wasn't there, so I can't say what occurred, but experience tells me that a group of 19 men at the end of a night of hard-drinking are not completely innocent. Let's see, this group began insulting the bar staff with insults and managed to break a window. Sounds like a pious group indeed.

My point was for people reading this to merely remember that there is only one side presented.

No matter how you look at it, it is a shame that a group left our city and one of our entertainment districts with a bad taste in their mouths, as it does that people were injured. Baltimore already has a stellar reputation.

19 guys, drunk, 2am, hitting on girls, calling the owner a douche...and the "poor fellas" caught a beating? Shocker. Good for the bar staff.

I'm baffled as to why they came here in the first place. Kinda like going to Detroit for the food. Then again, they certainly won't be back. It's a good thing...we can't have strangers coming in here like they were free to visit and all. Might lead to a sense of cosmopolitanism or something!
I'd sue the bejeezus out of this bar. Of course, that's probably what's happening. He'll be lucky to have a beer stein left once the lawyers get hold of him.

I hope TZ is right re: a law suit, but there is no police report, and more importantly the group had been drinking and (presumably) the staff had not which won't bode well with a jury when they are evaluating the bachelor's version of the story. This is too bad, because bouncers have no magical powers, or legal authority, to ever touch anyone at all. There is no shopkeepers exception for battery.

But keep in mind, most bouncers were the bottom 10% of the class and even the police would not take them, and they probably haven't had anyone respect them since they were playing special teams on their high school football team. So, short well-educated men of the world unite- and don't call the bouncers a douche or, in Baltimore anyway, you will get your head kicked in.

Peter, have you contacted the bar for comment on this? I would love to hear the SOBER bar manager's account.

TZ, I guess you didn't read the story carefully. He was attending a wedding. This may come as a shock to you, but there are many decent, hardworking people living in Baltimore City.

Enjoy your suburban paradise, but please don't p--s on our city in the process. Thank you.

Why would you get that drunk in a city that you do not live in. That was bad behavior on the part of the group.

I've hung out with groups in various cities and they automatically think that they can act as if they were in there own area. NO!! YOU CANNOT ACT A FOOL IN PUBLIC ANYMORE!

Givin that this was Fells Point, I know that it was a white or mixed group since no one was arrested.

We seem to think that we get a pass because of our ethnicity.

Sometimes that just does'nt work.

Sorry for the bad time in our great city, which by the way is a good party town in the right place and better behavior!

Further inquiries needs to be made regarding the time of the incident.

This is purely speculation and conjecture, but if it is 2am, the bar manager was likely asking the party to depart for the evening. Instead of leaving the party was likely attempting to hit on the female bartenders and arrange for some after hours activities in their nearby hotel room in addition to perhaps purchasing additional libations.

Despite his repeated requests the party probably blew him off, so he summoned the bouncers and a melee ensued. I don't know how many men the bar has working on a given night, but I'm very impressed they were able to take a party of 19.

Regarding a lawsuit, the out of state plaintiff's would be hard pressed to pursue a case of this nature logistically and the wait for a jury trial in Baltimore City would certainly favor the Defendants.

@ Rich, I'm not overly familiar with the current state of Maryland tort law, but I am fairly certain that battery is covered by the Shopkeepers Privilege. The real issue would be whether or not the privilege applies in this instance.

Additionally, one of the smartest people in the America, Christophe Langan was a bouncer.

What makes you think the manager was SOBER, or even for that much the bouncers. Last time i was in teh horse the bartenders were drinking up a storm as of most bars. Actually i think i bought a round of shots for the bartenders and they returned the favor.

"Bar staff you assumed was not drinking"????? "Sober Bar manager??? " Com'om people where do you think you are. Show me one bar in Canton,Fells, Fedhill where the bar tenders and managers are all Sober....Please.

I was there. I was a member of the bachelor party that you all seem to have no pity for. I understand your lack of compassion but I assure you that although the stigma of being in a "19 person, all white and entitled bachelor party" makes for great pictures, that was not our attitude, and certainly not our approach to the bar, or any of the other bars that we went to that night.

I was on the outside of the issues that transpired because I didn't know that many people in the group and was hanging off to the side with others. From my outside point of view, I saw a pissed off owner who got mad when a couple guys were laughing and hanging out with his bartender, who I later found out was in a relationship with the owner.

First of all, don't date your bar staff if you don't like the fact that their job is to be friendly and flirty with their patrons. Second off, nobody, NOBODY who was assaulted had any offensive wounds. Only defensive.
Nobody on the bar staff had any bruised, cut or broken faces or body parts. If 19 guys were to fight back against 4 or 5 meatheads, I would hardly say the meatheads, no matter how steroid-induced, would not end up with any wounds. And there were a lot of big guys in the bachelor party. The only 'offensive' wound I saw was the guy who broke the window with his elbow in a fit of emotion AFTER the cops had been called and we were waiting for them. He was pointed out to the bar staff by someone in a window above the bar who was looking out, and he ended up getting a little beating himself.

That was stupid, and we all yelled at him after he did it because it was completely counter-productive. Other than that one incident, it honestly wasn't that type of crowd though, whether you choose to accept that or not. And the fact that someone had a gold chain or a sentimental watch shouldn't be reason to discount them as whatever other stereotype you think they were. Perhaps if it were an iPod or a blackberry you'd be sympathetic?

The fact remains that if you get mad at your patrons, and ask them to leave, you should then give them a minute or two to leave, not just scream "GET THE F@#K OUT OF HERE!" and grab whoever you can grab and immediately toss them into a backdoor hallway. That's what I witnessed. I heard the owner yell, turned my head and saw 4 or 5 meatheads grab the groom and a couple other guys and throw them in a back hallway. They then proceeded to beat the living hell out of them. It wasn't the usual "grab him and throw him out on his face" that I've witnessed in bars across the country now and again, but rather "throw them out, then kick them and punch them in the face for good measure." I've never seen that much blood on everyone's clothes and the ground!

As for the paramedics and the police? I agree, they were all very unsympathetic, but what do you expect? This incident was probably a break for them. I've seen some other parts of the city and I know that these guys have much bigger concerns than a bunch of white dudes getting in a bar scuffle. They didn't even feel the need to go to the hospital (even though one guy had a broken nose). The one paramedic (who was exchanging pleasantries with the bar staff) actually said to the three bloody men in the back of the ambulance "do you REALLY want to go to the hospital for this?" And of course, you're all right, they will obviously side with the 'sober' bar staff over the 'drunk' bachelor party any day. I just think that maybe, in an area that they've recently tried to rebuild and brand as a nightlife hotspot, the police would at least try to put forth some sort of effort to make the patrons feel like it wasn't just a case of 'you shouldn't come visit here if you're not from here' mentality.

I spent a four day weekend in Fells Point last weekend from Thursday afternoon until Sunday after the Ravens Game. I had a great time eating, drinking and meeting locals at a number of other bars all over that area. Sometimes in small groups, sometimes in large. NO OTHER BAR gave anyone any problems. I can't say the bachelor party was "Innocent" and I don't think the letter even says that. However, I can say that whatever these guys did to get beat up like that, it was not deserved. Not in the least. In fact, the guy who called the owner a 'douche' left the bar completely untouched. They didn't want his blood, they wanted the blood of the groom and whoever was chatting it up with the bartender. If I were her, I would quit my job and dump that owner, and perhaps take a lesson from this incident that bar owners are sometimes predators who prey on their staff in exchange for 'special benefits'.

Greg, I just checked my phone because I sent a text message to my wife- who was at another bar in the area with the women related to the wedding- and I sent it at 1:33 am letting her know that the issue just occurred, so it wasn't around 2 am, it was around 1:30am.

First of all, why did 'greg' even submit his ignorant remarks? What does race have anything to do w/ it? If they guys had been black, they would have been arrested? Secondly, thanks to Jeremy for submitting another side of the story - as the innocent bystander. Lastly, why haven't we heard the bar's side of the story?

I would sue the bar and take them for everything they got!

I see. No effort to contact the bar to get their side. No effort to investigate what actually happened. No effort to prove that it even happened in the first place.

I just don't get it: (1) Why publsih this in the first place? What is there to prove this account is not from some random person with an agenda? (2) Why on Earth does this appear in the Baltimore Crime Beat blog, under the Confronting Crime section?

My friends and I had decided last December that we needed a girls night. We headed over to Iguana Cantina in Baltimore. It was about 12:45pm my friend and I were at the bar waiting for our drinks we had just ordered. A girl started screaming at us to "Move out of her way" we were a little confused at first. I was wondering if she was talking to us or if someone else couldn't hear her. She pursisted to yell at us so we moved over to let her by. Come to find out she was one of the bartenders. Well, when she went behind the bar she started "talking sh*t" to us. At one point she waved her hand in front of my face...so I grabbed it and told her it was rude to put her hand in my face and she should relax. We didn't go there to start trouble we were just waiting for our drinks. Next thing I know a large Bouncer came over and grabbed my arm. (So hard that I had a huge bruise the next day.) He wouldn't listen to me or ask me what happend and started dragging me out. I pulled a couple of times until my arm came free then he pushed me on the ground. Everytime I tried to get up he kept forcing me on the ground. By the time I got outside of the club I was screaming my head off (not drunk btw) I told the cop and he told me to leave the location! I was stunned~! Here I am a girl and this huge bouncer can just man handle me and get away with it!!! I haven't been back since.

MCG, How can you say "I know it was a mixed group b/c no one got arrested?" That's low class. Baltimore can be a great city...but who are you to make those judgements?

I think what happend was wrong on both ends. It didn't have to go down that far like it did. It's a shame that such problems arise. Maybe everyone should stop drinking!!!!

@Rich/Sally: Bouncers cannot trounce people. As to their ability to apprehend a patron, they may, as agents of the owner, detain someone who has stolen property (or is trying to skip out on a tab), and in exercise of the "shopkeepers privilege" they ARE immune from false imprisonment, assault, battery and most related torts.

HOWEVER, if a crime against chattel has not been committed, the exception to false imprisonment liability will not apply. So if they paid, they can't be detained or kicked repeatedly on the ground. Even if they *thought s/he stole something and they incorrectly detain them, they are liable for any and all torts.

You can, after calling the bartenders offensive names, be asked to leave at anytime- the status of an business invitee is not absolute but is limited by the scope of the owner's invitation. But again, except for defense of self, others and to a limited extent your property, there is never a legal reason to assault or batter anyone.

And on behalf of my city, I apologize for the uncouthness you all experienced. I once saw a bartender throw up behind the bar after doing a shot of Jamison. At 2 in the afternoon.

This is such typical behavior for BCPD , it happens all the time , the bouncers were probably off duty cops

Mski,

You might want to brush up on your reading comprehension skills. I never said any such thing in my comment.

Someone get Mski a drink.

I saw one of the most violent bar fights I have ever seen at HYCIO last fall, and the bouncers were incredibly agressive in "controlling" that situation too. After witnessing that, I decided to avoid that bar late late at night because of the potential for getting caught in the crossfire, so reading this doesn't surprise me. I'm sure the bachelor party wasn't completely without fault, but I'm not surprised to hear that there was an inordinate amount of force used against them.

This is funny. I would guess these guys don't drink and if they do they should find a new hobby. I've tended bar I know how retarded people can get when they drink. I've been in bars in the city's where these guys were from including Hong Kong you can't act the fool there so what makes them think they can act the fool here. Oh yeah like the Mayor cares. Sounds like these guys got what they deserved. no question they were rude to the girls tending bar and the ones in the bar. They were having a bachelor party and feeling "frisky" no excuse for any retarded moves on their part. They got what they deserved. And the little bit of money they spent is nothing compared to what the city spent to rescue their dumb asses. Bright lights big city guys "Man Up"

Some tjmes when you are in happy situations you like a diffrent treatment but others don't know . Well but being Baltimorean I still feel ashamed .

too bad the bar didn't have a video camera...either way it went down, it would have been great tv!!!...maybe somebody should start a new show since the Wire is no longer on the air and people all over the country and beyond are feenin' for some more gritty Bmore aka Charm City 'reality'...Baltimore Bars:Behind the Scenes.LOL

The Horse has become a haven for thugs and drugs. This has been known for a while now. This isn't the same bar we used to go to 5 years ago. I have seen the fights the manager has been a part of and he fights dirty. The whole scene has changed at that bar and it is a real shame. If you don't want to get hurt or be around coke heads, stay clear of the horse.

I think it is sad that people think it is ok to use violence to solve situations. These are civil servents permitted to cary firearms, and this is how they behave. it does not matter how annoying the party was, they cannot promote vigilante violence. if that is the case i know of several family and community members who want blood. but just as we get pr announcements advocating for cooperation with the police...we get stomped on if they are off duty and do not like what we say. i don't "believe" in this!!!

Next time you're at a bar, after hours, in a city with a horrible violent crime rate and the owner tells you to leave, just leave.

I remember someone getting stabbed there. Stay clear, this bar isn't worth losing your life

ok u bust the mans window, call him a douche,hit on the bartender who is probley his wife,mess up his perfect wall with your face,and make the lazy ass bouncer get out of his chair to play mr.janitor and mop up the floor with your head.on top of all that you write our news paper editor who is probley the bar owners brother crying about how you got your ass handed to you while 16 of your friends watched.also,our mayor is a criminal do you really think she cares about you?ill give you hint when you send this letter to our mayor send her a gift card she likes them.and next time you decide to have a party for your friends dont come to b-more murda capital usa

I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent.