Today's Guest Dad is a new face on Charm City Moms -- stay-at-home dad and blogger Joeprah of Havre de Grace (aka Joe Schatz). He writes his own blog at Joeprah.com and is a contributor to the useful Dad blogs site.
Joeprah is writing today about the 13-year-old boy in the U.K. who says he fathered a child with his 15-year-old girlfriend. Word of warning: Joeprah writes, "This article is written with tongue firmly planted in cheek." But you'll find much of the information in news accounts like this one.
Here's the rest:
(Again, tongue in cheek...)
For many years the race to have the highest teen pregnancy rate among developed nations was very much a one sided affair. Hungary, Canada, New Zealand, Australia-unfit to really even be in the race. The U.S. was lonely on top and quite simply dominated the competitors. Now, however, it looks like the U.K. has finally started to "step up" and give the United States a real run for their money.
Back in 1996 the U.K. was a distant fourth to the teen pregnancy juggernaut which is the United States, but through perseverance, dedication and maybe a little luck the Americans can now say, "The Redcoats are coming!" again. That's right, the British are setting their sights on the U.S. once again, but this time they want the teen pregnancy title.
How are the Brits catching up? Why have their teen pregnancy rates been increasing over the course of the past few decades? Apparently, teachers have been told to teach teenage boys about the joy of early fatherhood. Seriously. Teenagers should be equipped with the required 'skills, knowledge and attitudes' so they are prepared to bring up babies, says the British Department of Health. (If we are going to catch up to the Americans) Teachers should talk about ‘parenting aims and aspiration' with their students, says the U.K. government.
Health lessons in the U.K. include ‘the enjoyment of fatherhood.' These lessons are apparently being taken to heart by the British youth. A recent bit of news illustrates just how serious the British youth are about being dads. Just Monday we learned that three teenage boys are claiming paternity for a fifteen year old girl's recent child-the youngest of the boys, and supposed father, is 4 foot tall 13 year old Alfie Patten. Alfie was twelve when he allegedly fathered the child and recently said this when asked about the other boys:
"Other stupid boys are lying, saying bad things, like they have slept with Chantelle, too. But I am the only boyfriend she has had and we've been together for two years, so I must be the dad. When she found out she was having a baby, I asked her, 'Am I the dad?' And she went, 'Yeah,' so I believe her."
Good work, Alfie! But be sure to check with your teacher to see if health class awards extra credit points for paternity.
The Tories aren't convinced these teaching points are a good idea. They caution that, by teaching these guidelines from the Government's Teenage Pregnancy Unit, schools may be glamorizing teen parenthood and condoning irresponsible sex. The head of the pregnancy unit, Cathy Hamlyn, when asked about one of her outfit's publications that shows pictures of young boys with babies, said it was a ‘timely resource.' She continues saying that teenage boys can be ‘proud and able parents.'
Alfie agrees with Ms. Hamlyn saying he will be a good dad. "I know I'm young, but I plan to be a good dad." Alfie, in between turns on a PlayStation - said to a reporter, "I think we'll be good parents. I'll have to work extra hard at school." The police could have brought up charges of underage sex, but say they have said that they do not plan on getting involved.
With tactics like these in place, the U.K. makes it clear that they not only want to close the gap between themselves and U.S. (when it comes to teen pregnancy) but overtake their rivals.
Some spoilers to look out for are folks like Patricia Morgan, a researcher on teenage parenthood. Patricia says that, 'Fatherhood before the age of 16 should be a matter for the police. The parents of teenagers involved should be charged with neglect for allowing them to sleep together under their roof. This is child abuse. After 16, fathers who want to help bring their children up should be given one piece of advice: Get a job.' With her talk of responsibility and purpose many British teens may start getting the right idea.
Britain currently has the second-highest teen pregnancy rate in the developed world with 40.4 conceptions for each 1,000 girls aged 15 to 17.
The U.S. rate is highest, with 44 births registered for each 1,000 women aged 15 to 19.
Comments
Great article by Joe Schatz! Looks like you may have a great new reporter on your hands. I like the way he used subtle sarcasm to make his point that teen pregnancies are wrong....period...for those directly involved and for the government agencies that wind up supporting them with our tax dollars.
I checked out his joeprah.com website and his articles on the dad blogs site and found his outlook refreshing to say the least. It's one thing to report the news and another to present both sides of the contraversy. I hope to see more of Joe's articles in the Sun and other well-read papers.
I'm now a joeprah.com fan and invite others to read all about it. If you have a family, you'll enjoy what Joe Schatz has to say about it. I see a book in the making here...hint hint.
Posted by: Granny | February 20, 2009 10:10 AM
I'm sorry, but I think the sarcasm (as humor) is just an obtuse way to try to make a point here. If you have a point, make it, don't beat around the bush :)
It just wasn't that funny... sarcasm always has a touch of meanness about it, and in this case it seems to cloak the judgmental attitudes of one father towards other fathers who aren't in the same situation as he is. I suppose that given the helpful constructive articles you usually post, this was just not what I expected.
There's plenty of crazy quotes included, and it's always entertaining to read those... but I personally can't stand that attitude that some people have (both in the UK and the US), where kids must remain ignorant and obedient until a magic age, at which time they are expected to take on the full responsibilities of an adult. It doesn't reflect reality.
...And "Granny" - I would bet $1,000 that you think you're very religious... the smell of "holier than thou" is all over your comments :) Regardless of how you judge people, you need to keep in mind that these are real people in real situations... preaching never solved anything. You mention that "teen pregnancies are wrong...period" and while I understand what you are saying, maybe you should try a little compassion and understanding, or don't they teach that in church any more ???
All in all, I get it, it's supposed to be a "funny" joke of an article, but it's really just whining and moaning, with a hint of preachy judgment... flame bait at best. I hope you find my reply here just as amusing !
Posted by: Dave T | February 20, 2009 11:57 AM
Amusing comment Dave! LOL. I agree with you completely about preaching never solved anything, but I think that not talking about a problem is way worse. I am on the same page as you in regards to the attitudes of those in the UK and US and I have written about teen pregnancy many times in the past. I do find the current stance the UK has adopted in regards to teaching kids about responsibility to be dangerous. However, I do think talking about sex with your kids is important and parents and teachers need to more of it, but being defeatist--and conceding teen pregnancy is a strange strategy for a country that is attempting to fix things.
If you aren't into sarcasm no big deal, glad it got you talking though. That was the idea.
Posted by: Joe | February 20, 2009 12:50 PM
Thanks, and yeah, it doesn't take much to get me talking, not that it'll always make sense :)
The trend towards "Abstinence Only" teaching has me concerned... The hard facts of life are what they are, and I feel it's better to be well-informed about all aspects. That includes abstinence, but also preventative measures and teaching about responsibility after the fact. I'm appalled that we have US government programs who have banned the teaching of birth control for groups that are sponsored by tax dollars... and the results are as expected, higher teenage pregnancy and higher abortion rates. Ignorance seems to be a bad strategy :)
As far as what options a teenager has if they do become pregnant... we need to offer more support there, not less (Granny seems to suggest that "supporting them with our tax dollars" is wrong, but doesn't explicitly suggest any particular action to take). I agree that we need to do something different - handing out money is the lazy way to deal with it, but abandoning women won't solve anything either. Maybe if some of these people (esp the church folks) stopped the judgmental BS and ostracizing of these women, we could work towards finding a better way for moms (and dads) to support their families through jobs and community involvement (baby sitting, lending clothes/toys, etc). Helping them isn't "promoting immoral behavior" - it's helping women and their children who need it.
I know people who have had children at a young age (high school) and some of them have turned out to be great parents, one is even a professional midwife ! The support they received, especially in the first few years, seems to be a deciding factor in how successful they were overall. The mom that was left out in the cold ended up in a bad way... and her child also had kids at a young age (16). The mom who had family support and money got her stuff together, got educated, and things turned out well.
On second thought, let's mandate prison terms for girls under 18 who get pregnant, that'll teach them ! And that mom with the octuplets, let's start a pre-screening program and licensing so that only fit mothers are allowed to procreate… for that matter, we need cameras in every bedroom to detect when single people are having sex out of wedlock, maybe make a reality TV show like "Cops" on Fox, I bet you'd get HUGE ratings for that ! :)
Posted by: Dave T | February 20, 2009 2:16 PM
to be honest i think that it is hard for an american writer to comment on issues in britain such as what we are being taught in british schools. i don't know where the information was gathered but i am in my last year of secondary school in scotland and the boys have never been encouraged to become fathers...in fact in 2nd year we have a programme called 'baby think it over' where you can take home one of those programmed babies which cry, need fed etc. it is designed to show you the responsibility of being a parent and how hard and stressful it is and especially as a teenager, not to encourage you to have a baby. You can't generaise britain's teenagers as all getting pregnant.
however, back to the issue of alfie..i think it is pretty disgusting and no one i know condones it.
i do get what you are saying though but i hope no other british person reads this as the sarcasm could cause offence. if i was american i might like but im not so...
Posted by: r kerr | February 20, 2009 7:16 PM
Dave, I wish I wasn't heading out the door, because I would love to comment back at length, but I think me and you are on common ground on this debate. I will submit to you a post I made at the Examiner on this topic as proof:
http://www.examiner.com/x-300-Fatherhood-Examiner~y2008m7d15-Teen-Pregnancy--Why-the-US-Lags-Behind-Europe
Glad we got a discussion going, that is what's needed IMO. Have a good weekend and go easy on Granny. :D
Posted by: Joe | February 20, 2009 7:21 PM
I hope you post this....Dave and others with similar thinking need to hear this....
Hello Dave,
I hope you’re still watching this column for replies so you get this. I think you need to hear what I have to say…and others with similar opinions as yours. It took me a while to reply to your observations about me. I had things to do. I see by keeping my comments short it triggered something here. I don’t take much time for things like this anymore so I use as few words as possible mostly. I guess I came across as something other than what I really am.
Bravo to you in some respects, Boo in another. Let's get past the Boo part...look who turned out to be the judgmental one here...calling me religious and holier-than-thou...name calling...not nice…doesn’t get you anywhere. I forgive you. It sounded like you had a lot to get off your chest so you took it out on me. I’m used to it. Maybe identifying myself as Granny didn’t set well with you. Granny must sound like a crotchety old lady in a rocking chair, pointing fingers and complaining all day long about everybody….maybe in some cases. Read and learn, then judge me.
Not realizing it, you made the point that I was making in my short statement. In the heat of your hissy fit that was more about your issues with religious folks than the issues at hand, you gave a perfect example of the young mom without the support of her FAMILY (key word here) who was doomed to repeat history with not raising her children to realize what she did was wrong.
Yes, getting pregnant outside of marriage is wrong. At least you agreed with that much. Bravo there. It never leads to anything good or happy. God gave us brains to think and reason with. When we don’t do that, we make mistakes and bad things happen to good people.
If she had the support of her family like the other girl you referenced, things may very well have turned out differently, but not ideal by a long shot. Life is always much harder for someone going through that situation. I’ve never heard of anyone getting a pat on the back for having a baby out-of-wedlock, just heartache, and that goes for the families who try to support them, emotionally and financially.
My issue about the tax dollars is that government agencies just fork over $$$ and don't give a real hoot about the under aged pregnant couple (not just the girl). Do they try to guide them to keep them from making the same mistakes in the future? Money is the quick fix and it’s go away kid, ya bother me after that. You’re on your own. Go apply for welfare and live off the taxpayers and stew in your self-inflicted hardships. It’s not wonder people look down on these children….that’s what they are...children raising children. What else can we expect but to see history repeat itself over and over again. Hurt breeds anger, child abuse and more mistakes.
Another big Boo on your part is you're blaming the girls....what about the boys?....oh, that's right, you're a man. The male can't possibly be responsible for any of this, can he? You're true colors are showing, Dave....why not jail the boy, too in your sarcastic attempt at humor…first you criticize it, then you do it…can’t figure you out. I’m also taking notice of your one-sided attitude with the girl/boy thing here.
One big problem with society is that the burden has always been mostly on the girl....to control herself, not the boy....she has to practice safe sex, not the boy...she has to suffer the consequences of both their actions...not the boy. Who’s body is permanently damaged from childbirth?…not the boy. Once a baby is in the picture and the boy is too young to work...there is no income so no child support. It falls back on the girl...and her family (if they help her and don’t just dump her)….more anger, more hurt. Abstinence is the only way. Stay away from sex and it won’t happen…simple….I know you don’t agree with that and you are making excuses for them…..read on, dearie.
The government stepped in years ago and said let’s teach the children about sex…their parents don’t know what’s good for them….so sex was taught at a younger and younger age in the schools. Years ago, we didn’t learn about sex until we were young adults, many times near marriage age. You rarely heard of teen pregnancies. Now, it’s being taught in elementary school. That's why teen pregnancy is rising and the abortion rate, and let's not forget about suicide rates for those young girls and boys, much too young to handle such adult problems and lets not forget rising poverty rates....with single child parents on welfare raising more children doomed to follow in their footsteps because they don’t know how to stop it. Once the government steps in, the families back off and it’s all downhill after that.
I remember a time when families took care of their own. Back in the days when families stuck together and did it the hard way (if you will) everyone learned something from it and the chances of history repeating itself were slim to none. It wasn’t until the government stuck its nose into family business that things went horribly wrong.
It’s about time youngsters started listening to the Grannies again. We love you more than you can imagine. That’s why we are known for our disciplinary ways. We’ve seen generations of mistakes and have a little more compassion and smarts than you give us credit for. If we didn’t love you, we would just say….go away kid, ya bother me…do whatever you want.
One last thing, Dave…before you go judging and blowing off about someone being a religious, holier-than-thou, judge and preacher, try asking that person a little about their true intent behind their comment. I have been a volunteer for our church since I was a young married mother. (I have 4 grandchildren now). My husband and I have supported poor starving children in many countries over the years…don’t have enough fingers and toes to count them all and we took single pregnant girls into our home (referred to us by our church…the church you think has no compassion or understanding) when their families turned their backs on them and we helped them finish their education and got them on their own 2 feet so they could keep their babies instead of feeling the need to abort them, saw them get a job and an apartment and have as normal a life as possible for the situation they were in. So, yes, you are right about helping them and seeing the positive results. We have…first hand.
In the summer months, you can find me scrounging around yard sales begging for used baby furniture and baby clothes for the unwed pregnant girls who want to keep their babies. We also volunteer and donate to area pregnancy centers and work for Defend Life and Mother Teresa’s Nuns (who have many homes for unwed mothers we have helped over the years) among other pro-life organizations that don’t point fingers or judge the unfortunate ones as you assumed we do.
I’ve personally spent hours in the rain and snow on my knees outside of abortion clinics, praying silently (not judging or pointing or yelling at the girls being led and sometimes dragged, crying into the clinics by their loving? families) hoping that one will turn and run the other way…and yes, some have.
Through the Grace of God I was able to start an internet prayer chain called the Prayer Warriors years ago and when I’m not taking care of my responsibilities in this life, I’m checking my e-mail for urgent prayer requests from around the world (several times daily) so I can take a moment to pray for them and pass them along quickly to the other Prayer Warriors. One of the most requested prayers is for unwed mothers and their babies from their families.
Those girls that depend on the government when their families dump them, might get enough money for an abortion but are thrown out on the street the same day to mourn the loss of their baby and have nothing but regrets and what ifs the rest of their lives. Maybe their family would have taken them back in once the baby was gone, maybe not. There are organizations to help those girls and boys heal, too. Either way, it’s a sad situation. So, you wonder if abstinence is the way to go? It worked long ago. Yes, there were mistakes here and there…but nothing like today with the do it but be careful attitude.
Oh, yes, just in case you’re wondering...it took me a while to reply to you because I’m also the caregiver of the family….been one since before my last child left the nest to fly off on his own in the 90s….sometime in the early 80s I believe…can’t quite remember…been a bit busy over the years. I didn’t have the time to reply to you until things settled down for the evening. It’s after 11pm now and as soon as I finish writing this, I’m going to lay my head down and get some rest for another day of caregiving and church volunteer work tomorrow, with the church of no compassion as you put it.
Who am I caregiver for? I’ll answer that before you ask…my adult disabled child. My parents and in-laws that I took care of have all gone home to their rewards now and it’s just me, my husband and our oldest child, who, tragically, needs us once again…a single Dad with one of our grandchildren who is also dependent on us. Thank God we’re still here for them. You see, the government wanted to put him in a nursing home and we wouldn’t allow it….and our church thinks we’re doing the right thing and I like to think God does, too….just one granny’s opinion. Sorry if I’m sounding a bit grumpy and I hope my grammar and spelling got through this so late at night…I’m a bit tired of having to deal with judgmental folks…getting a little too old for this silliness in general, I guess. Who I am doesn't really matter, it's why we're all here that matters.
So, the next time you get all bent out of shape over someone's short comment, ask them why before blasting them, ok?
Posted by: Granny again | February 20, 2009 11:14 PM
Isn't amazing that in this day and age of contraception, abortion and sex education that we have the highest teen pregnancy rate in the world? Back in dark ages of the early 60's when contraception was not available to minors (unless they took a chance and swiped their parents supply) and sex education came from your parents or your doctor, the pregnancy rate was minute by comparison? There were usually less than 3 girls per graduating class having babies before commencment in the early 60's. Do you suppose that the boys and girls of the sixties were less interested in the opposite sex? Or do you think it was that they were morally superior to today's kids? Or were undersexed? What?
Kids back then knew there were consequences for their behavior. Today anything is ok. I work in a grocery store and recently heard a young teenager talking to her girlfriend. She said, "be sure to get WIC because you don't want to be STUCK paying for baby formula, it' so expensive." I personally think it's time for some personal responsibility. Sure if you get pregnant you should be helped but you should have to take some responsibility too. How about for starters, you go to school, come home do your homework take care of your kid and quit hanging out on the street corners working on the next pregnancy?
Posted by: Hollygolightly | February 21, 2009 1:22 AM
Hi I am from Australia and i will say this story has shocked us. I can not understand a school teach young boys to be great dads. Yes they need to learn but at such a young age come on. Over here we have a class for teens in every school where a girl and boy pair up then they are giving a life like baby that crys ect for two weeks THEY have to attend to that baby 24/7 each wears a wrist band that records everything after the 2 wks each child is told how they went. I can tell you this is part of sex ed and by the time the "baby" is handed back none of the children want a baby. Now for these children i in a way feel so sorry for them but then think what were they thinking and the parents gee i really dont have words for them. What about there future as be what i have read your country has no help for them here in australia we have teen mum schools where they baby goes to school with them and is placed in a child care centre onsite while mums go to school. Do you have anything over there like that. Not once have i heard their parents say that they will help them with the cost of the baby and im sorry but i feel they are to blame alot what parent allows a 15yrs girl to have sex under their roof with ANY boy
Posted by: kylie | February 21, 2009 5:54 AM
sorry. i just needed to post this somewhere. i know its not connected:
stupid britain! why do u guys wanna catch up with the americans??????????? go to hell! thats such a stupid thing to do! i mean in teenage pregnancy??? what the? please! the earth is gonna suffer from over population... the next thing u know they will only allow 2 children per couple! shut up and take it out of your lesson plans! go to hell britain!
Posted by: kaa | February 21, 2009 6:18 AM
Joe - thanks, that's a good article you linked to.
Granny - I stand by my comments completely, and I can see that I really hit the nail on the head there. I'll try to ignore all the places where you ascribe ideas to me that I haven't expressed, there's just not the space to address all that.
Your compassion is only eclipsed by your imagination. You are certainly free to see the world as you choose, and I applaud your commitment to helping people (although I bet that it comes with a regular dose of religious medicine). Your imaginary world of the past, where teenagers were kept ignorant and that ignorance was a strength, just never existed. You may want to believe that everyone used to be abstinent before marriage, but it just isn't true. Your Garden of Eden scenario is just a myth.
There are a host of factors that affect pregnancy rates among teens and unwed mothers. Likewise, dealing with it requires openess, understanding, and a variety of approaches. The church's dogmatic single-solution is very short-sighted, and while I think it's fine if they want to teach it to the flock, I would appreciate it if they stopped trying to force it on the rest of us. Make your judgements, separate the sinners from the worthy, spread your joy to your email lists, but myself and these "others with similar thinking" are just fine without that kind of help. Please just get out of the way and let us get about the work of really helping people.
Thanks again to Joe and Kate for getting people talking about this, it's always interesting to hear what people think about the topic!
Posted by: Dave T | February 23, 2009 11:04 AM
I go away for a few days and all hell breaks lose! LOL! I am glad a dialogue is going and simply trying to figure out what is going wrong is important, but it really is just conjecture since we can not impart our values on others no matter how hard we try--sometimes even our own flesh and blood.
The point I am trying to make is that our best bet in combating this issue and others like it, is to talk about life choices with our children in a way that prepares them so they can make informed decisions when it is there time to do so.
I am just glad so much discussion is being generated.
Thanks for the lengthy comment Granny and the insightful words from folks like Dave T, Holly and kylie.
Posted by: Joe | February 24, 2009 11:39 PM
You sound like everything is going great and that you know what you're doing but not to metion I don't think you are aware of the responsibiliities and creditablility that baby is asking for.
Would anyone want to give up their child hood and become a parents at an early age.
You are still a child yourself...how can you go and have another one if you can not even take care nor have a job to support that child.
Posted by: ane | February 26, 2009 9:57 AM