I'm disappointed that the ratings were that high. I hope 3 million of the viewers were members of the press.

The 3.8 mil still doesn't really mean anything as far as her ability to draw viewers on a weekly basis. Wasn't the last actual "show" at 1.9 million?

TLC is rapidly approaching the point where it will be taking a loss, rather than a profit. What's next week's show? favorite moments, as you said? Then the week after--kate's most favorite-ist moments. Then Kate's Really REALLY most favorite-ist moments ever.

It's pathetic. Then follow with another Q&A in which she manages to say nothing. Bottom, bottom, bottom of the barrel. Scrape, scrape, scrape.

Hi Heather, Yes, you are right on both counts: the 1.9 million and what it says or doesn't say about the show's real audience. Thanks. Z

Hmm, good summary Z.

Thank gosh tonight is comedy night on ABC. The Middle & Modern Family feel more realistic than Kate: Her life on Rodeo Drive of Reading, Pennsylvania.

Let me repeat myself. This show is no longer "for the sake of my kids" It is for "Sake of Kate, The sanity of Kate, The paycheck for Kate, The lifestyle for Kate, I am the High Road taker Kate, Kate breathes for Kate, & Kate would die for Kate"

This reality show has now turned into a cheezy infomercial for Kate Gosselin. And, her and TLC must think that us parents out there were born yesterday, never have been married, never have been conned by the Reality con artist Queen.

I have to stop....I am getting mad all over again.

Regretfully, I have come to the realization that Kate is here to stay for some time.

TLC's backing of her, will keep her around for some time to come. No one wants to admit failure. So they will do whatever they can to save face.

Jon is so erratic that no one knows what is coming next from his camp.

They battle daily for any media attention. The nanny is raising the kids while the two are away doing interviews.

When they are home, they are pictured with a cell phone to their ears while the eight kids are gathered around.

They can't see this. We can. It is sad. The judge needs to appoint a Guardian Ad Litem in this case. Both parents are liars, both parents have done "money grabs" of the household monies.

JMHO

Hi Mike, You could be right especially with Jon as the "erratic" one. What if he decides to make nice with TLC and do what they want -- and he and Kate have some kind of reconciliation? Yikes, the ratings would be astronomical. But if not... Thanks. Z

OMG - please tell me Z that you are kidding - they arent really going to get back together? Interesting enough someone told me that last nite on one of the entertainment shows, they were gossiping about the two of them getting back together...

Anyway, calm down karen - I think that one of the reasons the ratings were higher with kate's special, is that with it being so heavily promoted, people were taken in and actually thought it was going to be something special - when in fact it was just the same old, same old.

Take care Z - and keep up the good work.

I sure as heck don't blame her. We're finding one kid expensive: diapers, formula... even buying things at the used store is taking its toll. I can't even imagine 8 and the strain of trying to put 8 through school. Okay they asked for it when they didn't reduce, but the kids are here now... What else are they supposed to do? Go back to nursing? She's found a way to support her family - good for her. He's certainly not going to do it since he's busy flying off to the south of France and all! Typical.

Oh yea Irene and Z, (Mike Alvarez)

Modern Family tonight. I have to keep checking your schedule that you have on the site Z. I can't remember what nights these things are on.

Disappointed in Jon and Kate's ratings, hoped they were lower.

Mike Alvarez - good point about Jon's errartic behavior. I have this strange feeling that Jon and Kate will reunite like MikeAlvarez said up above "they will do it for the kids" and the show will go on, I have nightmares about this.

I'm just throwing this out there, but at this point I don't think the ratings matter. I haven't watched in awhile, but I don't know how any television executive could use some special interview as a reliable gauge of future ratings for a Kate-only show.

We know Kate is going to use those well-manicured fingernails to keep clawing her way back into the spotlight at least for a few more months. Which is fine with me. The more she talks the crazier she sounds and the more she ensures that she'll never get a respectable job in the entertainment industry again. Kate seemed a lot smarter when she was only surrounded by five year olds.

I also think all this attention and Kate's unwillingness/inability to address the issues with her children will ultimately be good for the movement to regulate children on reality tv. If Kate showed any real concern and some proactive measures to make sure her children had not been harmed by the filming she would be much more sympathetic. But Kate hasn't done anything at all, making her the shining example of "crazy stage parent meets reality tv." Helllllooo, regulations!

So, while I'm not encouraging people to start watching (and from experience, life is better when you leave the Kate-spectating to Z), if you're enjoying this hot mess embarrass herself over and over and over again, enjoy. In a year or so we'll be saying "Kate who?" and Kate will be back to begging for "love offerings."

Hi Suzi: I think you are right about the ratings for such jumped-up one-shots not mattering much to the future -- or lack of one -- for the series. Thanks. Z

So that is the high number, most likely from the first Quarter, but what was the drop off?

I doubt this would of sustained those numbers throughout the entire hour.

Good question, Nick. I don't have access to that, and I don't believe anyonme will unless TLC gives them out (given the way cable clients can control release of Nielsen data). And if you are right, TLC probably will not be circulating them. Thanks. Z

I wonder when Kate's contract is done with TLC? Has that ever been made public?

Also, Z, I"m not familiar with the ins/outs of sponsorship of tv shows. Is the time sold on a show to show basis or do sponsors take a block of the season still to come?

I'm not surprised at all that Monday's ratings were up from last week's Kate "special". I mean, after watching the first one, many were still in shock at her nerve and stupidity and needed to see if it could get worse. And it did!

So, if the K&J+8 show is winding down with "best of" type of shows, those ratings won't stay in the 3 million range.

And, I would think Kate's stilted appearances and rehearsed interviews would prove to TLC that she is not worth their money.

Yes, she is drawing ratings now, but how long can she play the "most hated woman in the world" schtick and still draw an audience?

I think it is a mix of long-term and spot buys. But those who bought at lower rate for the full season should have the right to opt out and get refunds now that the show is no longer the show they bought -- which could be a financial problem for TLC. If TLC still has to pay Kate (because she did not break contract), but it has to refund advertiser money (because it can't produce the regular show), that could cost some money. Z

Even if Jon decides to let the kids film for the money and to try to settle the lawsuit the show still needs to be gone. The kids are older, Jon and Kate both have alot of help with them, what else is there to show? It was interesting when they had to keep 8 little kids under control but now it's boring to watch a family go on vacation or hear Kate complain about not having an oven while her kitchen is being remodeled for free and how they need to go to the beach because they just can't stand another day of takeout food. Wow those obstacles sure are inspiring. Yawn, I can't control my excitement.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the past several years been one giant episode of Kate's story? How much more of it do we need to know or hear? Why does anyone tune in to watch this overbearing woman do mundane tasks, like go to the grocery store or have a picnic? Newsflash: There are mothers out there with more kids than Kate Gosselin exhibiting far more human dignity. Jon and Kate both are a pathetic example of parenting. I don't know how they can go on TV saying they would never do anything to harm their children, yet they threw them on reality television. There is a well-documented history of both child stars as well as multiples who have been exploited in the media by their parents, enough for even the most mainstream of people to know the most likely inevitable outcome. Money is the real issue going on here, and with the money Jon and Kate keep splurging on themselves, those kids won't even have that. TLC is an embarrassment to television endlessly pimping this tacky twosome like it's groundbreaking television, or even worth watching another two seconds.

I bet most of Monday night's viewers were voyeurs...wanting to watch a trainwreck. The only interest in this lady is due to how much people like to make fun of her, catch her in story-telling, sobbing, the whole bit. (It's sorta like being a fly on the wall watching your neighbors at their ugliest moments.)

When she co-hosted the View, she showed everyone she does not have the talent and credentials to be a marketable tv persona. She was stiff and boring. Without the kids and Jon, she has nothing credible to offer viewers.

Kate's claim to fame is birthing too many kids she and Jon could not afford, duping the 'masses' into paying her bills and upgrading her lifestyle,using her children for financial gain, and emasculating her husband on national tv.

What a class act!! :p

Hi aggiemom: I think you are right about watching TLC and kate careen from one week to the next with these shows. Z

Z great article as always. I'm just curious to see how long TLC is going to beat this dead horse of a show Kate & Kate plus Kate. Because that's what it's become. It's just simply a Khate lovefest every week.

This lady needs to realize that no one can identify with her. She has hired help to raise her children, she has a housekeeper, groundskeeper and a "bodyguard". There's not many folks I know who have raised their children with such help. Let her get a real job, and then come home after work to do the laundry, housework, cook dinner, help with homework, give baths to the kids before bed, and then I'll be glad to give her my attention.

I think Jon will cave. He has to see that he really has no other prospects to make the money that he was making to support the lifestyle that he and his family are accustomed to and it looks like Kate is not willing to settle for anything less than having her McMansion and life be served on a golden platter to her youngsters (meaning herself).

TLC is suing him and that's another push for him to let them film the kids.

I see it coming soon.

I just feel for the kids. But, what're you gonna do?

I really don't understand TLC's desperate desire to hang onto this woman. Is it really worth constantly having PR people shadow her to make sure she doesn't say/do anything inappropriate?

With the nonstop tabloid coverage, ratings dropped to below 2 million and I can't imagine them climbing with just Kate or even Kate and the kids. Sorry, but kids just aren't as cute as they get older, especially when their mother has now told us "they deserve life handed to them on a golden platter." Seems like a sure fire recipe for entitled brats in the making.

Why can't TLC just cut the cord and move on?

I have to tell you I do not know the answer to that one. But we'll see what happens next. I think we are reaching a definite turning point in this saga. They can't keep going on this way. Who is left to interview her? I think they will try her hosti ng clip shows, but I don't think that will work. Z

TLC and the families of the network’s other reality shows need to learn from the mistakes and faults of the Gosselins. In a few short years the Gosselins managed to go from an uncommon, charming, struggling family to ending in a detested, deceiving, greedy empty shell of a once devoted household.

The parents quit their “real” life employment (and real life all together). The family discarded friends (What did happen to Beth Carson, Kate’s best friend?) and family (How do you have a vow renewal and none of your closest F&F show-up? Maybe not invited?). Everyday life for these kids because a trip across the country (Skiing???? for 3 year olds, that was best!). Even when they were home, the children became props while their parents were shown receiving extravagant gifts. Finally their semi-dysfunctional marriage and hidden lavish lifestyle became tabloid fodder. This isn’t reality for anyone!

Then again this is most likely why TLC’s other families are pretty much left alone. They kept their jobs and their real lives (So far!). They remain in their original homes (though little LPBW now has an addition that rivals the Gosselin’s McMansion!). You see them interact with extended family and friends. Etc, ….. you get the picture! If these families stay away from the trappings of the Gosselins ……. maybe THEY can survive!

Thanks for this thoughtful analysis. Z

I expect many of the viewers for Monday's show were curious to see if possibly we would see another side of Kate. Unfortunately we didn't. It confirmed for me that the plug should be pulled on the show. Kate's obtuseness to the reality of what she is doing to her family is frightening. If she is so concerned for her own safety that she needs a bodyguard, then why does she not have the same concern for her children's safety?

Jon and Kate both need to get into "reality" of their individual lives as divorced parents. Trying to use the situation as a "reality show" just doesn't make it. Each of them has been interviewed and photographed too often during their separation and pending divorce. Divorce is tough, it is awful for kids, but to put it all on TV is even worse.
Jon and Kate both probably should be looking for jobs, especially if they didn't invest the money they made on the show; can't imagine they are going to be able to support the cost of a Nanny, that huge house, and the cost of raising and educating 8 children without real jobs. Sure hope the court takes action to protect the kids and the money they deserve for being in this TV show mess.

Good Morning Z, in regards to your response to Mike Alvarez about the possibility of Jon & Kate reuniting and getting the filming started again. That has been brought up a few times in the last week at GWOP site. I never bought that idea because I never thought the parents would put the kids through the sadness but now I'm sure that they are capable of any and all kind of deception to their kids. I watched the part of the interview when Kate was asked about Hailey Glassman and it just came to me that TLC and the Gosselins and even Hailey could have orchestrated all of this together to save "the brand". If as they say, the audience grew as the families divorce and affair speculation came out then TLC became more well known and Jon & Kate and Hailey had their names and faces everywhere. I think they are all just sick enough to think "I don't care what you say about me, just spell my name right".

Hi Cathy w/ a C: I do think it is possible -- I really do. Z

The only interview left might be John Stossel , like Aly said, or '60 minutes". If TLC could arrange that then I think they would get some higher ratings. But, that probably would never happen. I was really disappointed in the interview on Monday. Too bad Natalie Morales gave into the Kate spin, but I am sure they already had that planned. TLC would not let NBC take control of Kate.

Also off the post, but Elizabeth Moss from Mad Men is on Mercy tonight.

Why can't a reputable news show do an expose on these two con artists? They were on the financial take from the very beginning. Sources cite she was consumed with multiples at a young age. She carried around some book by the other family that had 6 kids..she even named some of her kids after the earlier septuplets! (the whole ' I have fertility issues" was a complete sham, IMO).

First, they said they did the show to 'make memories'. Now Kate says she did it 'for the money'. Which is it?

She said she was on bedrest for 30 weeks. Then Monday night, she said she on bedrest from 7 weeks to 30 weeks...in *her* book, on page 51, it says she was on bedrest for 10 weeks...the lies just go on and on...

If someone, would do a complete history of this, everyone would watch.

I did not watch this show from the beginning, but I understand why people are so upset. Young parents, 'struggling' like Jon and Kate, took this family into their home, got to know them, sent them things, loved the kids. And all the while Jon and Kate were portraying an image of a good yet stressful marriage coupled with financial strain. Appalling.

You know what's funny too is how now that raising the kids isn't all that hard with them being potty trained and in school plus the nannies help, the show had to "create" situations that would make Kate's life seem hard. Kate took all of the kids shoe shopping together and it got a little loud. We all know she could have taken 3 at a time and left the rest at home with the sitter but then no drama and no photogs would notice them. Getting the dogs was only for the show, I mean a neatfreak with 2 puppies, give me a break.

I am not one for conspiracy theories. I never believed Elvis is still alive.

I have some deep down questions though. I think the Gosselins are cashing us in for all we are worth.

NO I HAVENT READ THIS ANYWHERE BUT I FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT THIS.

#1 THE TAKING OF THE $230,000. It made for some great publicity didnt it? Money got put back in the acct by dad. Mom now says the money has been figured out.

#2 Hailey Glassman getting on The Insider. Made for great tabloid television. Got paid for it ~~~~ who is to say this was not fabricated to make them some extra dough rei me for her and Jon?

#3 After all this show has not been canceled. Tlc reports straight to Radaronline...$$$$$

#4 and how do we really know Jon and Kate do not talk?

Who knows, but there is more to come I truly believe. Truly believe.

As we got closer to this show, I realized with horror that the ratings were going to be much bigger than the last episode. I say with horror, because I would really just like this to go away, and higher ratings mean the opposite of that. While it was an increase, 3.8 million is not, I think, near what the show's former "regular" ratings were. Comparing the ratings to the 10-million mark may not be 100% accurate because they got those ratings only one time, for one episode, I believe, while average ratings when the show was at its peak were usually in the 5-6 million range. Is 3.8M enough to greenlight The Kate Show? Unfortunately, I think it will be, but I don't see how it could possibly last past 2-3 episodes.

Why does Kate think she is ENTITLED to stay on TV and have a job the entertainment industry?

Kate says, "This is how I make my living and bring in a paycheck." BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF UNEMPLOYED STRUGGLING ACTORS OUT THERE WHO ACTUALLY HAVE TALENT.

So if these actors make their living acting, then by Kate's reasoning, they should all be given jobs too.

Now that the kids are older and in school full time, they need to be given the "opportunity" to live a normal childhood.

I do not understand TLC, the Today Show, or anyone that has her on their show. Do these people invite her, or is this something her PR people set up? It is time to just say "no" to Kate Gosselin. I am tired of Jon being all over the place with his private life, and I sure do not want to hear anymore of Kate's side of things. My youngest son saw her on TV the other day and actually got up and turned the TV off!
I think TLC will hang on even if there is only a handful of viewers. There must be something the public does not know about--why else would they keep plugging Kate?

This is the only blog I read reguarding this stupidity, I love the posts here and especially Z's honesty. I think the hatred grows because of her selfishness and ridiculous answers. Most "reality" shows have people who have lives outside of Tv, she is the only one who has made that her life and isolated her kids from anyone who is not a TLC employee. I have said it before there is something so wrong with her. What is she going to say when her kids are screwd up as teenagers and adults, how is she going to explain that away. I think for the most part people in this industry do something they believe in and are humble about it, then when they are recognized in a big way, they always give back somehow. Kate doesnt and just appears so narcissic. Somone posted about her comment about her kids deserve live served to them on gold platter, and about how we all try to teach our kids about character and not being spoiled, it was a great post. Not to mention she said gold instead of silver. She is such an idiot. If she thinks for a minute her kids will see her in a good light, she has another thing coming. I will never understand what the attraction to this family is by big networks, it just shows how gullible these people are they will jump on any ban wagon. I still think her time will come and she'll be out of the spotlight.

Her church excuse is different than the one she gave Vanity fair when she said she was too famous to go to church, she also said she could understand how Princess Diana was killed due to the paps, does Kate really think she is in that same category. Please!!!!

As Kate "cried" did you notice that she had no tissue to wipe her eyes ...but used all "five fingers (manicured)" at once. I have really cried and one finger does the trick. Guess she wanted to give us a pix of her nails. What an idiot! Kate is milking everyone and anything to continue to exploit her kids. The "pity party" is over ... her time is coming and revelations can be difficult. I hope she loses custody of the kids when all is in black and white. What a b....!

One the car crash aspect of this whole saga calms down, viewers will go away for good. The show was going straight down the toilet anyway. Even if Jon returns, there is no way to put Humpy Dumpty back together. These people lost their appeal. The only question is how long TLC will able to continue to promise a compelling product and fail to deliver before people tune out. A Jon 'tell all' is next. TLC will be able to buy Jon. It will be part of his rebirth.

One possible ploy by TLC would be to have Jon do an interview like the recent Kate/Morales spin fest, where he tells his side.

He makes money and somehow gets back in good graces with TLC, they (TLC) get the time slot filled and the ratings.

Who knows with these people? They are addicted to fame and their D list lifestyle. They are liable to do anything to keep this thing going.

For me, it is the train wreck factor at this point. I'm waiting for the entire family to implode.

anyone remember Trading Spaces...and Paige Davis? The show started small and became popular very quickly for TLC, who completely oversaturated the market with episodes (much like they've done with Jon & Kate Plus 8). Next thing you know, there's a little controversy with Ms. Davis and she's no longer the host of the show. Yet, TLC trudged on with the franchise and the result wasn't very good. They worked out a compromise and Paige Davis came back to Trading Spaces, but I don't think the audiences ever did.

If TLC was willing to hang on then, I'm certain they'll be willing to hang on now. We'll likely see more Kate before we see no Kate.

Z, I have a family member in publishing and she was telling me about the severe drop in Rachel Ray's book sales. One of the reasons was over-saturation. Ray is everywhere: TV (both Food Network & ABC), magazine, book, cookware line.

I think the same will happen to Kate Gosselin. Over-saturation in the market.

Good riddance. Let's go YANKEES!!!!!!!

Z, thanks for another insightful article about the Gosselin train wreck!
Anything is possible with these people. They appear to be wanting to do anything to keep the money coming in!
Neither parent wants the lifestyle to end. They are believing their own hype! It's so sad for the children.

Good point 1smartblonde, if she would die for her children then why is she the only one with the bodyguard? She certaintly can afford to hire bodyguards for each child (even without Jon's financial help, because she makes the most money). I really can't take much more of this, it is beginning to feel like emotional abuse whether I watch or not. I am seriously thinking about suing TLC for fraud and intentional inflection of emotional distress.

This is a message to TLC: PLEASE, PLEASE stop making deals with Kate. Drop your lawsuit against Jon. Cancel any show that includes any Gosselin and TLC, LEAVE THOSE KIDS ALONE!

To everyone else with half a brain (this does not include Kate supporters), I do think it is time to start boycotting the sponsors. What do you think?

A little Kate tidbit I found out last night! :-)

I decided to cleanse myself from watching Kate the night before & laugh a little ( a LOT!) & watch Kathy Griffin's "Balls of Steel" comedy special on Bravo. She was wickedly delicious as every - and finally got around to discussing her time on "The View" with Kate Gosselin!

We all wondered WHY Kate Gosselin was "picked" to be a guest host for 2 days - and it turns out (although Kate would keep this very hush-husheish!) that Kathy Griffin was a guest the day that Kate Gosselin was a guest host (Thursday). Friday's show is pre-taped on Thursday - and Kathy was scheduled to be the guest host. Her guest was going to be LaToya Jackson (oh - the stars were aligning! *LOL*)! Well - it turns out, per Kathy, that LaToya REFUSED to go on the show if Kathy was the guest host (I wonder why? *LOL*) - and, as Kate was already there, SHE became the guest host for the Friday's show. Absolutely FUN finding out the truth behind the "popular" Kate Gosselin! *LOL*

the only memories this show created were BAD ONES

Hi Z,
I think this whole fiasco could be a ratings ploy. I do not think Jon or Kate are above that. I think that either would use their children. They already have. I have been telling my husband this for a long time now. I agree with the prediction of a family holiday episode.

If Jon goes back and let's the kids be on the show, he will forever be a joke. I hope he doesn't, but, I can see it coming. I don't think he is a strong man. And, I think it is suspicious that he is involved with Rabbi Shmuley, who had a show on TLC...Shalom in the Home.

Kate is not going away willingly. I do think TLC loves her right now. I also think they will dump her in a heartbeat and it won't keep them up at night.

I wish everyone would quit watching. By watching, I feel like you are saying that it is ok for children to work and support their parents. That was a turning point for me when I realized that Jon wasn't working outside of the home any more and they were letting the show support them. And, they were not living frugally.

I also do believe that Kate intended to have a littler...one way or the other. She wanted to be famous. And, she is. She got exactly what she wanted.

Uncle Kevin and Aunt Jodi said a year ( or more ) ago that Jon and Kate had a goal and the goal was for them to never have to work again. So far, so good. I think Kate has made a few too many mistakes for that to happen. I think Kate thought the show would go on forever and did not plan ahead accordingly. I think that she is in for a rude awakening.

Just read the posting by Heather at 7:24 am as she read my mind and wrote pretty much what I would say. Take the hint TLC - NO MORE KATE GOSSELIN!! How many times can you watch one woman talk about how wonderful she is?!? I couldn't watch it that night and yet I think it has replayed 3 or 4 times already! ENOUGH!!! We are sick to death of KHATE GOSSELIN! Unfortunately Jon Gosselin buried himself and doesn't have the sense to just shut up and lay low for awhile.. If he would stop reading his own negative press, then he would stop trying to fix it and making things worse. He needs to keep his sanity for the sake of the children but he is (I believe) having an emotional breakdown. I know, I have had one and I see all the signs.
First step Jon: STOP READING THE RAG MAGAZINES!
2nd step Jon: STOP TRYING TO FIX IT!
(you can't)
3rd step Jon: Just lay low for 6 months. Just devote yourself to the kids and pretend all the vultures are not there. Stay home and don't talk to ANYONE!

Hi Z - as an amateur writer myself, I really admire the way you write! Excellent analysis as always.

Hoping Jon will not succumb to Kate's mind control once he returns home (assuming either of them ever left) and relent about the kids' working on tv. I've got to think he'd get a decent divorce settlement out of her anyway given her illustrious "career" of the past two years.

I can no longer stand the sight and voice of Kate Gosselin. It really makes me sick. She is being over exposed and I am sure that many people feel the same about her as I do. Poor Jon had to endure this monster for several years.

Kate must be a truly miserable person if you think about it. Imagine lying in bed at night thinking about how many people dislike you. Especially the fact that her life is currently in turmoil. She will never admit that she's made any mistakes. This is not her personality. She will stand by her mess whether it is right or wrong.

I cannot believe that TLC has actually put their reputation on the line for this whack job. I don't watch TLC anymore and I am sure that there are many others who don't either. It is obvious that TLC is now desperate to make money from Kate and they are doing these silly little interviews that keep repeating the lies Kate has told many times over.

I really feel sorry for her children. They are going to have problems when they get older yet she still doesn't see how this could affect them. She's either playing stupid or she just doesn't care. Kate Gosselin is a selfish and greedy monster and TLC has proven to be right along side her, but hey, she's a contract honorer!

Kate is a disaster. Kate has no heart or soul. She is pretty on the outside, but ugly on the inside. She cares nothing about her family and it is all about Kate and how much money she can make off her innocent children. She had no time for the dogs, but would bring them back in a second if there was money tied to them. When her kids can no longer financially support her, she will toss them aside. God rightfully made this woman unable to have children. But for modern medicine, she would have no innocent children to abuse which was God's will.

TLC stood for "The Learning Channel" or so I remembered; "The Ludicrous Channel" is more like it nowadays. TLC, destroying one family at a time.

Regarding Kate Gosselin, whom is she fooling? She, TLC & her PR have been in overdrive trying to reverse her harridan image. Everytime I see her face or hear coverage of this woman, I want to pull my hair out. Whenever I think this woman has returned to obscurity, she claws her way back to consciousness. Her tv-tears, complete make-over and intentional kindness-whenever-a-camera-is-around does not deny her inherent truth - she is a selfish, mean, fame-hungry person. bleh.

Actually it surprises the heck out of me that nobody calls her on the bed rest thing. Every magazine cover out there after this fiasco on Monday should have her words plastered across them "I was on bed rest for 30 weeks". First off, she was only pregnant for 30 weeks, so unless she took to her bed immediately after conception that is lie number 1. In her book she states she was on bedrest for 10 weeks. She needs to be called on this. It is a blatant lie. One of them is in print in her book that Beth Carson wrote and the other is taped for all time for people to hear. Liar.

As for Nikki, Jon took Hailey to the south of France. And your point would be what? Kate's been all around without Jon having fun. Oh I know, I know, she was working. Riiight. She stays in 4 star hotels, rides in limos, has a handsome bodyguard to guard her. Eating at 5 star restaurants and having people fawn all over her is what she loves. I will agree Jon is an idiot. He is digging his own grave. I used to feel sorry for him, but his going on TV tonight to break up with Hailey just violates all kinds of things. But he is still the better parent than Kate.

It is so funny to me that she feels she needs protecting but the bodyguard is never around when the kids are out and about. What about their protection Kate?

I think it was marieE that asked about sponsorship or product placement in Jon and Kate. This was an eye-opening article. How much these companies make and stand to lose on this show. I had a degree in marketing/advertising and hated that field, but it still amazes me the money involved in all of this. All about products and ratings really.

http://www.examiner.com/x-12254-Newark-Reality-TV-Examiner~y2009m7d1-Jon-and-Kate-Plus-8-Crooked-Houses-company-wins-big-resting-on-divorce-announcement-episode

Brace yourselves, folks!

I know this might be a complete shocker, fellow bloggers, but there's a solid rumor buzzing around the greater blogosphere that Kate Gosselin is (brace yourselves) planning to record a double disc album (DVD) of gut-wrenching, heartbreak classics on the obscure independent Nashville label, White Trash Redux, and hopes for a Spring 2010 release date..... maybe Good Friday. Say it ain't so!

Sure, I was as totally blown away as you guys when I first caught wind of this bizarre revelation. I had no clue this drama queen/ basket-case w/ the faux possum/ roadkill hairdo could actually carry a tune, but shucks, they can apparently perform minor modern-day miracles in the recording studio these days.... woofers, tweeters, reverb, over-dubbing.....all that cool stuff. (I heard they may even do a remix, hip-hop update of Bonanza's Lorne Green's ballad, "Ringo", but don't hold your breath.)

I hear she's going to market this double DVD set/ debut album exclusively thru Wal Mart (dah) and Trashy Lingerie (double dah)--a free pair of Brazilian thong underwear w/ each purchase. She's even been trying to entice Garth Brooks out of semi-retirement to duet w/ her on a couple of tear-jerkers. Elvis Costello, and Harry Connick Jr. passed, and Willie Nelson is still mulling the prospect over, or he may just be blown' smoke. (He's good at that.....nudge, nudge, wink, wink.)HA!

Quite by chance I happen to have gotten a gander at her playlist of all 30 songs on her new album, tentatively titled simply "KATE". I have said-playlist handy, so here's a sneak peak:

1) "Cry Me A River"

2) "You Only Hurt The One You Love"

3) "Tears Of A Clown"

4) "Shout"

5) "Help"

6) "The Party's Over"

7) "Love Stinks"

8) "How Many Teardrops?"

9) "Town Without Pity"

10) "Bits & Pieces"

11) "It's Over"

12) "Your Cheatin' Heart"

13) "Jesus Take The Wheel"

14) "Unforgettable"

15) "The Last Waltz"

16) "Heartbreak Hotel"

17)"It's My (Pity) Party"

18) "Tell Me Why?"

19) "Sorry"

20) "Fools Rush In"

21) "Jealous Eyes"

22) "Bad Moon Rising"

23) "Helpless"

24) " Dry Your Eyes"

25) "I Can't Stand It"

26) "Blue"

27) "Life Is A Carnival"

28) "Superstition"

29) "Cold Sweat"

30) "Yesterday"

Wow! If that litany of classic heartbreakers doesn't send you into an abyss of self-pity and deep depression, I frankly don't know what will. (SOB!) And we all though Amy Winehouse was a downer.

Folks, who knew that Kate G. actually had other talents besides bitchiness, avarice, self-pity, phoniness, turning on the crocodile tears, bad taste, child neglect, and faux drama.(Have I left anything out?)

So next year, don't forget to check your local listings for the VHI Channel reprise of "Divas", hosted once again by the still under-employed Paula Abdul, w/ the transformed new diva of white-trash suburban rock, the irrepressible, and constantly annoying , "KATE"....... yes folks, like Cher, Aretha, Tina and Celine before her.... one singular diva moniker will do, thank you very much (Sorry Elvis).

********Then I woke up, and like three entire seasons of "Dallas", realized it was all a horrible dream..... well, more like a nightmare. Shouldn't have eaten all those Halloween mini Kit-Kat bars before hitting the sack last night. Or maybe it was that slice of Havarti. Remember that's what got old Ebenezer Scrooge's mind all 'spooked' at beddy-byes time. Likely a chunk of slightly moldy Stilton, no doubt.

Clank! Clang! Clank!....sounds like old Jacob Marley's afoot. Hey Kate G., just a thought. Have you considered, "Chain of Fools" ? HA!

ALEX

I wonder if it's possible that Jon may cave and let the kids be filmed to fulfill this season's contract, but stipulate that they may not be filmed for another season? Could this be done legally? It would allow Jon to receive some pay, I suppose, and maybe negate the lawsuit TLC has against him?

I hadn't considered them getting together again, but if he is smart, he will notice that his "soul mate" Hailey is calling him a liar, immature, etc. He might as well go back to Kate because he has not changed and she might take him back. And, about the kids, my Dad took movies of us all the time: light meters, posing, etc. So what? They appear to be having more fun than I did.

Kate Gosselin I went to the grocery store this morning. Guess what? I did not have to flip the magazines over~~~~~~~You were not on the cover of any of them that I saw.

Oh, I know you are so upset and I am sure you will get right down to business to stir something up. It must be a tough life coming up with all that drama.

So where were the 'tough' viewer questions? This show was so staged and we heard all her blubbering answers before on all the other talk shows. I was very interested in watching the kids grow up and the things the two parents had to go thru in managing 8 small children. However, the show became more about Kate than the 'eight.' I watched their interviews together and saw them gradually distance themselves on the interview sofa. You could tell from their body language that there were problems, but the show continued on. To me it stopped being about the kids and more about greed and how much you can get. I'm sorry but if the family earned close to $70K per episode for 5 years in addition to having numerous freebies and the 'book deals' why in the world would you not be able to support yourself and the kids now? Where did the money go? A lot of families with large broods get by on less than $70k a year! Why would you purchase a $1.5 million dollar home when you knew the marriage was on the rocks?! Money grubbing Kate knows that in a divorce the home usually goes to the mother and children so the kids have stability. She says the home was purchased for the kids, but I recall an episode when she stares out her kitchen window and says, 'this is mine as far as the eye can see.' You are not broke and you have more than enough for your children's college ed. Stop acting like you will be destitute without the show. My niece is a nurse raising 5 kids on her own - no child support. She has been a nurse for 10yrs now, grossing over $80-100k, owns her home, has all the kids in private school and pays a 3day/wk housekeeper. Give me a break, Kate. You get no sympathy from me.

"Kate seemed a lot smarter when she was only surrounded by five year olds."

Sherry T.

That was classic, Sherry. I picture the people at TLC in a meeting room talking about how to save this wreck of a show and you KNOW somebody said, "Think Beverly Hill Billies. Bring them to LA and start filming". It's going to happen. Kate will be, again, "doing it for the kids" because schools in PA "aren't set up for celebrity children and the "P-People".

"Let me tell you all a story about a man named Jed..." Who can tell me where that famous opening line comes from? Ha. Z

I watch every show of Jon & Kte plus 8 and i can say that they are one verry special familly...i know that Kate speak too much sometimes,but i have 8 sisters and i understand how is it,for womens its harder the for men's and i know that Jon can't take it nomore but who's else there to help a mother of his kids?He's there to help Kate no to leave her like step father and go with soemone else...that's not nice and i would like Jon and Kate to see this comment and to think about it(if is possible)!!!thank you!

Z,

You really took one for the team - watching the whole dang public relations trainwreck. I'm grateful we have folks like you and Dr. Lillian Glass pulling the curtain back on these grifters.

I want to point something out as well:

I do see them re-uniting in the future - probably in time for Christmas.

With that scenario, they would be really milking the ratings for TLC.

I also see them "Broke and Famous" in the years to come. Saw enough of that little gem that all I could think of was the Gosselins.

But the biggest concern in all this has to be the children - those eight kids have lost their childhoods to these selfish parents and a rich cable network who profited off them.

I wish we could sue TLC for destroying those kids - when they hit majority I wonder if they can sue for what happened? Especially since they didn't get a say-so in any of this.

I cannot imagine the life those kids have - being taken care of nearly 24/7 by strangers. Paid strangers to boot. That is wrong on so many levels.

None of the mess has ever been about the kids, Kate Gosselin has gotten her 14:59 minutes of fame. The genie is out of the bottle and I don't see her wanting to go back - the father seems to want his family back together, but whether that is because he needs the paycheck or what I don't know.

Anyway, to close this lengthy diatribe up - Z tell us when you are ready to write the sociological novel on these grifters. Many of us in the blogosphere have source material for you!

You folks did educate me. I went back to a piece I wrote last march to check the ratings for the show back then (3.7 million)people). And reading the piece, I see how much I had to learn about the Gosselins and TLC. I thank the commenters and bloggers here for the education. But I fear we might be hearing those Christmas bells ringing, just as you predict. I think that will my what's left of my heada explode. Z

Nikki-
You asked what else are they supposed to do ( re supporting their large brood)? Are you saying that pimping their kids is Jon and K8's ONLY option ? And seriously, if they ( Jon and K8) don't have enough $ saved up by now, something is seriously wrong, dontcha think? And by the way, what K8 is "doing" (haven't figured that out yet) is not K8 supporting her kids. The kids have been supporting HER since day one.

Regarding Jon and K8 getting back together : if that happens, Regis must have a crystal ball because he called it when K8 was on a few months ago.

I like kate and would watch her on a show without the kids. I think she is smart and interesting. She has her faults, as we all do, but I admire her honesty, sense of humor, and drive.

Way to go Jon, finally someone looking out for the kids...get them off the screen, they dont need this stuff from press, let them grow up somewhat normally...

I think marieE up above commented on sponsorship and product placement. This was a real eye-opener for me just how much these companies can make from these advertisements on these shows. How dependent they are on one another.

http://www.examiner.com/x-12254-Newark-Reality-TV-Examiner~y2009m7d1-Jon-and-Kate-Plus-8-Crooked-Houses-company-wins-big-resting-on-divorce-announcement-episode

Kate is one of those people who want us to believe that everyone is wrong but her. Think about it - broken relationshipes with Jon, her parents, her siblings, the papparzzi. She is the victim. I don't think so. Also all Mom's do what is best for their kids, but her clothes and a remodeled kitchen. I don't think her kids could care less.

At this point Kate and Jon both are really toxic assets. TLC is just milking them for all they can before cutting them lose.

I mean really there was practically no difference with Monday's Kate interview this week and last. No real revelations. No real answers. No real questions.

The problem is Kate doesn't realize they are milking her until they cut her lose. That's when the most dangerous time will come. Once the studio leaves and the help leaves. Who will she have left? She's alienated all her family and friends? She alienated her church when they tried to help when the sextuplets were born.

I'm worried about what will happen when the last curtain call comes. As much as folks say Jon is erratic, it is clear that Kate herself has severe emotional problems. You don't alienate all those kind of folks without some serious issues. She should have been using the money all this time for counseling not designer wardrobe. This problem of hers is not new and has probably been there since her own childhood. Untreated it could lead to greater tragedy for this family.

Mike,

You got it partially right. Only Jon is the one with the cell phone to his ear. Kate is the one making daily trips to the UPS store to pick up packages. I guess her handlers suggested when she hit the Grove with the NBC reporter that it would be better for her to have them ship her purchases home in a plain brown box rather than to be seen been extravagant coming out of the mall loaded down with bag. Although my girlfriend had said that she read somewhere that Kate is doing a pretty brisk business selling stuff on ebay (guess it must be all those freebies that companies and her adoring fans send her).

If I didn't dislike Kate so much I'd feel sorry for her - watching her hang on to the life raft while her ship goes down. I think the only place we'll be seeing her will be years from now in psychology publications as a textbook case under the title 'a study in narcissism'.

Hey folks, I got waay behind on comments today with other Baltimore Sun duties. Just catching up. But I will get all posted. My comments might be shorter, but by end of night at around 11, I should be rolling agaian. Also our blog software was down for about four hours today. Sorry. Back up and rolling again. Z

Telephone ringing:

Kate: "Hello"
Jon: "Hi Kate"
Kate: "Is this the old Jon?"
Jon: "Yes, it is"
Kate: "Hello Old Jon"
Jon: "Hello Kate"
Kate: "WHERE'S MY MONEY?"
Jon: "I'll get it back from Hailey"
Kate: "Men, you just can't trust them with money"
Jon: "Can I come home?"
Kate: "You may and I need help with decorish thingy's for thanksgiving"
Jon: "Okay, can I bring the dogs home?"
Kate: "NEVER. Ugh, some days I could lose my mind. Get over here quickly Old Jon"

Kelly, great! Z

I find it funny how everyone who interviews kate say the same thing "dont you think enough is enough". Hint, hint. too bad kate is too blind to see. I hate how she always responds "were at the point were we cant stop". yeah way better to stay on a road of destruction. Also dont say you hate the tabloids and the media attention, then the next minute give an interview and air all your dirty laundry. Kate give me a break and get your priorities straight. I have no problem with her trying to make a leaving to support her kids, but at what price.

Anon 10:24

I think MANY of us feel the same way about exposing Jon and K8 for all their lies and deceit.

I did watch the show from the beginning and even then there were many HUH? moments from K8.

It would take a LOT of research, but only because there is so much information but it's all readily available on the internet.

Exposing Jon and esp K8 would make any person truly EXHAUSTED.

Kate is pushing everyone to give her what she want, she keep saying her job is TV right now, but when she said she wouldn't stand in line for 7 hours to see anyone but then she said "they stood in line to see me" for 7 hours I felt she thought she was better than other people. Kate has shown her real colors and we are sick of seeing her on TV. TLC needs to cut the cord and move on. Kate has to find a job like any other person that gets fired. She act like she is a movie star. Kate and Jon even if you get back together why do I want to watch a show getting freebies all the time, cut me off a free vacation or a tummy tuck and i will give you my husband. LOL

Here's what I've observed. The bodyguard is paid for by TLC. This is why when they are filming, he's around (the trip to LA for the NBC interview). In recent paparazzi shots of her going to Dunkin Donuts (slumming since she can't afford Starbucks anymore) or putting gas in her SUV, or going to the UPS store, she's now alone.

I thought it telling when she appeared in the California women's conference. The news had a shot of her sitting alone at a table with her book (obviously waiting for fans to ask to have their copies signed) but there weren't a long line of fans there. Also, when Maria Shriver was asked about Kate's appearance, she obviously "covered herself" by saying that she was invited a year ago.

I had also read that when they became "famous", a lot of churches that had booked her for appearances at $25,000 suddenly got emails from her "assistant" that Kate was cutting back on her appearances so she could spend more time with her family....and then her appearances suddenly went up in price to $250,000 with a laundry list of "requirements" such as first class airfare, car service to and from her home to the airport, two deluxe hotel rooms (I guess for her and her support staff), etc.

Everyone should e-mail TLC and tell them what they think in regards to Kate Gosselin. I already have.

I would like to see Kate being interviewed by Bill O'Reilly.

...

I think marieE asked about sponsorship and advertising in a post up above. This was a real eye-opener to me about how much these companies can make by giving these perks to Jon and Kate. These companies depend on these sponsors and all comes down to ratings and profits.

http://www.examiner.com/x-12254-Newark-Reality-TV-Examiner~y2009m7d1-Jon-and-Kate-Plus-8-Crooked-Houses-company-wins-big-resting-on-divorce-announcement-episode

I don't think that Jon Stossel or 60 Minutes would have the time to untangle all the mis-direction from this pair.

What is more amazing, Z is the only journalist to cover the story with any attempt to cover the facts - the rest appear content to take whatever falls out of the Gosselin's mouths.. wrapping up in a bow with the expectation welll believe Gosselin news is "hearwarming.'

Thank you Z! I look forward to more from you as you help us understand what kind of Kool Aid is being passed around behind the scenes.

Thank you, Wiki Editor: You know far more about this show and family than I do. And I think you speak from a point of widom when you say Stossel or 60 Minutes would not have the time to try and untangle this mess. But what a book this is going to make -- if someone honest writes it. And no one who is honest is going to get access from the Gosselins and the crew of grifters surrounding them. The unauthorized version is going to be the one that sells and educates folks about the world of reality family TV. Thanks. Z

Nikki, I don't agree with you. Jon may be flying off to France, but don't forget he didn't work while the show was on either. Fertility treatments have a high risk of producing multiples. It ws a planned pregnacy with risks. They knew what they were getting into. If you can't afford them, don't have them. She acts like she is entitled to get everything handed to her. Oh no. I have to go back to work and I won't make enough to support my eight kids. Welcome to our world!!! I would never pimp my kids or myself like the way these two did

Both Jon & Kate need to grow up and start being role models for those kids. They have plenty of money and could get by like most Americans do. For years I'm sure they haven't paid much to raise the 8 kids. There are many corp donor for mulitiples. I've never seen the 6 kids not wearing matching clothes. Most families with 8 would be looking in resale and hand me downs. It's dualable to support those kids but private school and a million dollar home doesn't really fit in the scheme. I'm sure those kids would have a greater appreciate of their parent's work ethic later in life knowing they worked hard as a nurse and IT tech guy rather than exploiting them.

Almost 4 million viewers is somewhat disheartening but I agree that it doesn't necessarily mean a consistent increase.

What it does mean however is that at least for the next week or two we can surely count on more tabloid coverage and t.v. interviews.

What's really sad is that as people's distaste for these parents grows, the Gosselin kids, who are the only real victims here, get lost in the shuffle of opinions and criticism.

Each parent has spent the last 6 months on TV claiming that they are the victim of the others' failings while their 8 children are at home with a nanny...not with family, not with friends BUT WITH HIRED HELP.

Makes me want to throw up to think how incredibly selfish these two are. My heart just breaks for those kids.

Kate should move back in her old house since it is still up for sale so she won't be crying trying to pay the bills.
Her children will not remember the trips or all the freebies only the beginning where the ad says, "We only wanted one more but got 6" Did Kate say, GOOD! The children will blame themselves and they are angry.
They're both in the news so much..but why? To me, they are not stars or celebrities or even good parents. Plus, with all the lawyer fees, they will have nothing left. I feel she should also make up with her family; a support system that cares for the children rather than nannies. I also couldn't stop laughing about Kate wanting to have her own show or be a voice character. They both need to focus on the kids and what's best for them...Not this crap they're throwing at us.

Alex M. I luv your post. Glad we dragged you in on the carnival freak show....Please though do not put her in the same category as Dallas~~~ we already cannot live with this woman, she will reallly get the big head.

HATEKATE:

Are you kidding me, did Regis really predict that. If he did then the reunion interview should take place on his show. That is too funny. But, I am beginning to think it will happen. TLC probably has this in the works already.

Just in time for Christmas? Not the present I was hoping for this year.

Chyrysee,
I think we should all start writing that sociology book about the Gosselin's now. We can all work together to write it.

Z, Well then If we are going to be blogging on Jon and Kate until 11:00 p.m. tonight, I had better get started on some caffeine now. Sorry about the blog problems. I did try to post about 1:30 p.m. or 2:00. I thought it was my computer.

I swear I am watching some World Series tonight. I just pray neither Jon nor kate does anything crazy in the next three hours. I know that is a lot to ask of these two fools, but a guy can hope....Z

Kelly @ 2:53on that was a great post. Just remember that telephone call will be sold to the highest bidder...true to the Gosselin High Road!!

Why do people berate Kate for doing the television show? How else could she provide for her large family? Sure she could get a 'real' job and go back to nursing, but that would take her away from the kids and she would then have to pay a nanny. Oh, I know. She can count on Jon, NOT.

I'm going to have to bite the bullet and watch a rerun of the special so that I can make a list of all the sponsors for that show.

I will notify all of the advertisers that I am boycotting them and their products because they advertise on J&K.

I have done this in the past and it really gets results.

Please keep the blog posted on how it goes. That would be great. Z

John (3:15)

I take great offense to your post.

Dunkin Donuts is WAY better than Starbucks LOL

Thanks Wiki Editor keep checking an contributing to us.

The Gosselin High Road is has more twist and turns than a drive on the Crooked Street in California that I visited years ago.

Yeah Z,

I will be praying that you get to watch some of the World Series. I want to too. Have been following it and the Yankees won and then the Phillies won. I missed that one. You know how erratic Jon Gosselin is though he might do something crazy right before game time.

Go Yankees!

I'm watching now, and the Yankees are ahead 2-0, and I am loving it. Z

Hi Z,
OK, I'll bite. The Ballad of Jed Clampett was written by Paul Henning and performed by Flatt and Scruggs.

You got it. One of the bloggers suggested Kate might move to Los Angeles and reunite with Jon and TLC would make its own reality TV version of "The Beverly Hillbillies" with them, and that is why I threw out the oppening line of the theme song from the CBS sitcom. Sad to admit, all the words to the entire song are locked in my brain for eternity. Thanks. PS I did not know paul Henning, the creator of the sitcom, was credited with the song as well. Z

Hi Z,
(you don't have to print this), but wasn't it TLC that sued Jon for breach of contract, after Jon's attorney sent two letters to TLC informing them that filming of his children would no longer be permitted (as per Jon, and supposedly their contract with TLC which he claims states that either parent can stop filming of the show if they believe it is detrimental to the children?)

TLC sued Jon for BOC because they claim he had accepted money from other entertainment venues w/out getting prior permission from TLC
Meanwhile, they noted that Kate was able to travel, make appearances, do interviews and audition for other tv shows, because she received prior permission from TLC.

(seems like TLC is trying to prevent Jon from earning a living to support his children - the same children TLC has been exploiting for hundreds of thousands of dollars....since birth!)

Just wanted to have the right info out there. ;)

I love Kate but I think she is desperate now, the last two interviews I watched she has mentioned trying to get her own TV show! I think she is trying to casually throw it out there during the interviews and hoping someone will pick her up! This last interview she said she didn't even know what happened to break them up! Which to me means they didn't even try to work it out between them! That's too bad, those kids atleast deserved a chance for their parents to try to stay together but it seems like they both walked away and gave up without even trying! Sad! She will never make it with a normal job now unless she changes her life style! If she doesn't get another show I think her life style it over!

@ Scarlett ~ Kate's had 2 best selling books so there's a couple million plus they've made well over a million on the show. She won't be working at Mickey D's anytime soon.

OH NO, NO Z!!
Don't do it!!
Don't print unsubstantiated, non-journalistic stories from websites that are NOT credible!!
These sites (examiner & associated content, et al) are designed to look like "real" news outlets but are not.
These so-called writers grab headlines from other sources and mash together so-called stories and then post their links on all sorts of legitimate websites, newspapers, blogs, fan sites, etc.
Anyone can do this - the writers are NOT vetted and they earn something like one-cent for every hundred "hits" or something ridiculous like that.
It's Spam Journalism (i made that up - heh!)

This woman's article is riddled with misleading information and outright misinformation!!
Example: she touts that web searches for the Crooked Houses company skyrocketed after the J&K episode featuring them.
Problem is, the writer makes the assumption that was "good" for the company and NEVER interviews anyone with the company (like a REAL columnist or journalist would).
Someone at the company just may have acknowledged that they were inundated with email, phone calls and snail mail from people who actually were turned off by their sponsorship and like other sponsors (which actually has happened -- I have the emails from them to prove it) they were reconsidering their affiliation with the show, based on the negative feedback.

Fact of the matter is (my educated suspicion) - the search skyrocketed - because the websites dedicated to getting this show off the air (for the children) have been posting sponsorship contact information so people can write and protest - for well over a year now.
I know - because I am one of those who never heard of "crooked houses", but certainly wrote and let them know my feelings about sponsoring a tv show that exploits children, gave them my "key" demographic info and let them know I would NOT be buying their product.
I had to "google" them to find out where to write.

A key questions would have been "Have you seen increased SALES as a result of the show -- or have they declined or remained steady. Or better yet, have you seen any impact on sales as a result of the show - and let THEM answer whether it has gone up, down or remained the same).

Please look at the third paragraph (if you can even call it that) of this article.
It makes no sense. It is not even a complete sentence - just words strung together.
This is not good source material to be posting on YOUR legitimate "news" and opinion site.
Please do not re-post any of these mish-mash articles from random people who just cull info from web searches and re-post in non-grammatical, non-english and non- journalistic ways.
Let's keep the integrity of Real News sites....or newspapers will soon be dinosaurs, and we certainly don't want that, right?
(Nor do we want readers mistaking these sites for ones like "The Baltimore Sun")
Thanks so much!
Keep up the awesome work!! :)

Hi Elaine: Thanks. But did I inadvertently include a link to such a site today? I could have. I was scrambling to caqtch up late in the day. If I did, I apperciate any help in directing me to it, and I will delete it. Thanks. Z

Thanks Elaine. The Z bloggers are aware of that the breach of contract is over his appearances.

We know the bottom line is the show is dead in the water without those 8 kids. ~~~ They cannot keep the show alive without the kids.

We know the parents will not tell us the truth if the truth hit them in the face.

I also know this. I really could give a flip why the kids are not being filmed right now. I am just glad they are not being filmed right now.

The other day on Radaronline I saw a cheezy bus stop post. Mady or Cara had to actually tell their dad (Jon) to stop talking and get in the car. 9 year olds that have more sense then their parents.

Thanks though for your comments. I love all the comments on Z on TV.

,i> Hi, Irene. Thanks. Z

Z, that post in question:

I posted the Crooked House article because it related to marieE's post about sponsorship and reality TV shows. I posted it several times because the blog site must have been down and I thought it was my computer. I certainly don't get paid. Is that what Elaine is referring too?

I don't think so. Let's wait until we hear from Elaine. If there is a problem with it, we will just delete it. No big deal. I will check it out meanwhile if I can. Thanks. Z

Man, I should have hit the post button one minute later.

HATEKATE wrote:

John (3:15)

I take great offense to your post.

Dunkin Donuts is WAY better than Starbucks LOL

Hi Z - glad I came back to check - saw your note! (I'm new here and glad I found your column!)
It's the copy and paste post below -- you posted it TWICE!
(I thought it might be a slip, because you stated to another reader that you could not post a particular link because of language)....Glad to Help! I'm a Big Fan of Newspapers!! ;)
============

Hi Elaine: I see what you are saying. Thanks for being concerned about saving newspapers. I appreciate that -- you know I do. And I know what you are saying about copy and paste. And this outlet copies and pastes quite a bit of my stuff. But I did check that link out and there is no misinformation in it that I can see. And the person who posted it was only trying to provide some information on one aspect of the show. But is there something in it that is incortrect or false, because if there is, I will delete it in a second. UPDATE: I just went back again, and it does make the point about how valuable a prodeuct placement could be on the show when it was booming. I think that is the only point the person who posted it was trying to make. Thanks. Z

Irene,

Thanx for the "luv" re/ my earlier Kate G./ music diva parody posting. For me it was kind of a cathartic, symbolic, creative flushing out of all that toxic, pent-up Kate & Jon 'effluent'---a surrogate reality-show upper-Gi colonic cleansing, but far less invasive. HA!

Oh, and Irene, don't feel the least bit guilty about, as you put it, dragging me "in on the carnival freak show" (great descriptive image by the way). I pretty much blame myself for getting sucked into this vortex of bizarro 'wackotude'. Mea culpa.

I too hope our relatively new blog contributor, "Wiki Editor", stays on board. He (or she) could be a real plus for our motley crew of 'opiners', keeping us on the straight and narrow, and keeping our facts straight. (Not that our astute blogmeister, Z., doesn't fulfill that role rather admirably.) Welcome aboard Wiki Editor. You'll have a blast.

I just adore the Wikipedia site. I'm checking out one thing, or another on Wiki almost every single day. Even though it's kind of the default, go-to Internet encyclopedia, by the People and for the People (sound familiar?), w/ some occasional questionable/ shady data sneaking thru their vetting cracks, for the most part, it's just a wonderful, accessible, seemingly infinite informational resource, a cyber-place to just get totally lost in, have fun, and explore. I particularly love how they highlight various personalities, or pertinent points
in blue in all their articles, providing info-links to related material. No wonder the Net is such an irresistible lure and total obsession for so many folks these days, and why T.V. should be very concerned about its relevance in the 21st century. (Don't worry Z., you'll always have a job. HA!)

Irene, I dug your analogy of the Gosselin "High Road" likened to San Francisco's famed, serpentine Lombard St..(formerly Crooked St. HA!). You couldn't have conjured up a more spot-on symbolic graphic image, although as I recall Lombard St. does have some semblance of inner logic, and a definite picturesque quality going for it, granted on an all-downhill, ultra-steep gradient. Whereas the rocky, raucous, herky-jerky, totally bogus "Gosselin High Road", with, as you put it , "its twists and turns", has NO "inner logic", is hardly "picturesque", but is inevitably 'all down hill' from here.

The Gosselin "carnival freak show" has taken America for a wild and wacky ride up till now, so I guess we'll just have to bite the bullet and stay tuned until TLC finally puts Kate and Jon out of their self-induced misery. (They say "misery loves company", and there are still millions of Gosselin looky-loos around to prove it.)

As the great unwitting-'philosopher'/ Yankee All-Star catcher, Yogi Berra, once opined, "It's never over till it's over." Of course he also was quoted as saying, "When you come to a fork in the road.....take it." (I think poor Yogi, who's still kicking in his 80s, God bless him, may have gotten beaned on the old noggin, behind home-plate, more times than he's willing to admit. HA!)

Care for a mini Kit-Kat, Irene? I've almost finished off my Halloween stash. (Does it always come down to food w/ us, Irene?....... if you can really call a Kit-Kat bar, FOOD. HA!)

ALEX

Scarlett, you said: Sure she could get a 'real' job and go back to nursing, but that would take her away from the kids and she would then have to pay a nanny. Do you think she stays home and cares for her children now?

Greatr point, Aly. Thanks. Z

The average ratings are about 3 to 4 million. That is not bad.

Go TLC.

Elaine,

That was my post with the link. Glad we got that straighted out. I was just posting in response to marieE earlier. I found that link that related. Sometimes it is nice to use links to clarify or add to someones post.

You know I just had a bit of a thought - In sept 2010 the little kids will be in school fulltime, so I really cant imagine that with homework, and other activities how they will be able to have kate+8 on TLC on a full time basis in any case. Perhaps kate realizes this and one reason she is so adamant that the show must continue, because the cash cow will be gone soon enough.

Kelly,
The telephone interview is the best. I am going back and reading that one again. It is really cute. I can imagine Jon and Kate on the phone saying those exact words to each other. Kate wants the old Jon back. Oh, no the kids want the old Jon back? The kids just want the daddy they love back.

Re: Examiner link
Did not mean the link poster was getting paid (but often the author of the pseudo article does post their own link).

These sites are nothing more than non- journalistic advertisements for their sites.
The more people they can get to their sites, I suppose the more money they make (for the site).
The authors are just regular joe's and josette's and the names of the sites are made to sound like real newspapers.

I just think you are doing yourself a grave disservice by posting links to such sites, as they do not live up to the same kind of journalistic standards as your real newspaper employs AND do not have the same credibility.

The fact that they really are newspapers with like sounding names (San Francisco Examiner - the wire service Associated Press) - clouds the space and blurs the line for the vast number of unsuspecting readers.
You don't want that (I hope)

Besides all that - to my point - the article makes unsubstantiated assumptions.
She lifts and re-quotes (out of context -- A big No-No) the line about google site traffic.
SHE didn't talk to the company owners.
ABC did.

For example (from the fake news article):

"How much does product placement in reality TV shows really effect product sales?

(Me Interjecting: She Never answers this question -- the basis for the article.
No Sales Numbers are sought or given -- we still don't know. It could be negative - - but read on -- she states it was a positive -- WE DON'T KNOW THAT -- AND NEITHER DOES SHE!)
back to her:

"Since the show featuring them aired, the Crooked Houses Company has been one of the biggest searches on Google. The small business consisting of five people, with only two full-time employees, has been booming.

"Within 60 seconds of Kate saying the phrase 'crooked houses' on TV last night there were 170,000 visitors to our Web site," said Halliday.

Owned by Glen Halliday, 38, and Jeff Leighton, 34, Kids Crooked Houses has been "inundated" with phone calls and catalog requests since the episode aired Monday evening. Glen Halliday, the owner of Maine based Kids Crooked Houses, told ABC News that the idea for the "whimsical playhouses" came from watching cartoons with his kids in which he saw houses that never had straight edges.
(edit content)

"The developers of Crooked Houses definitely got their money’s worth, if you were watching; you might have noticed Kate Gosselin say they were “bequeathed” to her kids, meaning, the Gosselins didn’t pay for these in a literal sense. They also had the kids wear “Crooked” tee-shirts throughout the episodes in true product placement mode."

Me: So how did they "get their money's worth?" Where are the sales figures and direct quotes from the company?

Z - yes - this would be like someone lifting portions of YOUR story and writing something completely different and out-of-context from your original piece because they left out pertinent information, and formulated their own theory based on unsubstantiated info.

So maybe I just don't get why the link is published.
If you don't mind - I don't mind. Like I said, I'm new here (~sheepish grin~)

Sorry, didn't mean to start anything here.
I'll hush up now! ;)
Best Wishes!

I'm tired of Jon and Kate. We used to watch the show. But the kids are older and who cares about 5 year olds anyway?

They are all desperate to keep casing in on their children.

Keep in mind, millions of Americans are out of work and losing their homes, and these two feel they deserve 75,000 per episode. Why should we put money into their pockets? How about they pay the viewers 75,000 to watch.

We no longer watch, it's just old.

Great job, Z. Thanks for writing about the Kate we all see and not the proverbial pig that TLC keeps putting lipstick on. At some point, TLC will have to throw in the towel with her because Kate Gosselin is best described by two words: hopelessly hateable.

Sherry T. @ 7:15 PM,

Wow! I was fit to be tied earlier today when it appeared that something had gone majorly awry w/ Z.'s site. Sounds like you had a similar experience, Sherry, I attempted to post the same commentary three times, in short order, but no "Thanks for your post" message popped up on-screen as is the usual response, confirming that our post went thru okay.

I was pretty bummed, and figured all was for naught, but later today I checked out Z.'s site and....eureka !... my posting thankfully showed up. Likely three times (Opps!), but Z. probably deleted the two redundant, virtually identical posts. Good catch Z.!

I've been nursing a very painful left lower back/ hip sciatic condition since this past Sunday, and frankly it''s been agonizing. Ironically, sitting at my computer, or sprawled out on my living-room couch seems to help, but walking, or any other ambulatory moves for that matter, are very painful. I'm taking Aleve, but I think I really need some sort of strong muscle relaxant, like Ibuprophen.

As they say, "There's always somethin."

My old pooch, Ebony, has been very patient w/ me, as she's missed her morning constitutional (neighborhood walk) for two consecutive days, now. I wish humans were as understanding. HA!

I helped move a buddy to a new apartment last Friday. He was renting a one-bedroom unit on the 3rd floor of a three-tiered typical motel-California-style complex, moving to a new ground-level apartment. The move involved a lot of stairs to negotiate while lugging dead-weight (no grand piano HA!), and I'm pretty sure I must have somehow tweeked something in my sacra iliac, and the rest is history.

Time, rest and meds should help get me back to normal. This isn't a new experience, so i kind of know what to expect. I'm hopeful I'll be much better by this weekend.

Hope you and yours are all doing well, Sherry.

ALEX

Sometimes I think these Kate defenders are watching a different J&8 than we are...or we're in different dimensions. Spooky.

Alex - Love the playlist! Can't wait to buy the album and how fitting it should be a Good Friday release... I'm going to print out and keep for a chuckle when I need it. And of course a mini-Kit-Kat is a food! in fact, I've often made a meal of it...

I'd love to post something clever myself, but it looks like you all covered it today! :)

I just wanted to say that I'm glad that I stumbled upon your articles, Z. I was not aware that there were so many people who had the same mistrust of Kate and TLC as I did, until I read the comments found on your blog.

Hi C.H. (1:21 PM) I'm glad you have some fond memories of your dad taking home movies of you. They must be some special memories.

But now some questions. Do you think those memories would have been as sweet if someone had paid your dad a lot of money to film you several hours a day? And what if they filmed you naked or sick or tired or cranky or having a tantrum or pooping or being yelled at? What if they filmed you doing EVERYTHING, and you had NO power to stop it or find a place to have some privacy? What if they started telling you what you had to say and do so they could get more "entertaining" footage? And then what if, after they filmed you, they enabled millions of people to view that film - millions of people watching you naked or pooping.

Therein lies the difference. Loving parents taking home movies of and for their children are a far cry from greedy parents selling their children on film.

Be well.

Hi Z. Please do not tell me that Jon would be stupid enough to go back to that hell witch. Can you just imagine, he would be twice the slave whilst she sits on her white plastic throne directing her minions.
People over at GWOP have been calling this a scam for a long time. I still haven't bought into this yet, but Jon is such a loose canon, who knows if he will give in.
If they think reconciliation will be the salve for their careers or problems, think again because I feel the public are sick of them and would boo them to the rafters!!
I think I am now going to poke my eyes out!!!

I really want to see Kate off the air for good. She has been a huge disappointment to me. I am a little jealous of her -- getting fame and millions for doing something that many parents have done who have not achieved fame or fortune doing it -- having a large family. I think she is pretentious, greedy and self-serving. If she truly does believe that this has all been for the kids, then she is delusional in my opinon.

I get the feeling we are being scrutinized for a reason.

I am not a quick study. I just cannot imagine why.

I just do not know how this happened. I just remember one day I was on the Z on TV blog and I realized our goals had changed, not mine, but...........

Have a great day bloggers. Keep exposing the "craziness of television"

Hi Irene, Can you elaborate? I am not clear about what you saying. Scrutinized by whom, for example? It sounds intriguing. I want to know more. Thanks. Z

Alex M thanks for the offer of a Kit Kate but as Kate G would say, " I do not put anything in my mouth that would harm...."

See the insanity starts all over again.

Saying of the day 11/05
"Bloggers that stay together get to the bottom of it together."

ALEX,

Thanks, by the way I loved the songs. Those certainly do fit the Gosselin drama!

My posts went through at least three times, but I didn't get the flag saying it went through so stubborn me, I just kept retyping, filling in said letter, and sending my mouse down to the send button. My mouse is complaining about all of the overwork. haha.

Really sorry to hear about your back and sciatic pain. I have actually had that sciatic and there is not much to relieve it. If you can get it my doctor prescribed an 800 mg Ibuprofen. You really should ask for a test, many people with sciatica have a pinched nerve or a displaced disc, or so that is what Dr. Shade says. Not trying to diagnose, but I would call. Mine was actually caused by an infection, that is another scenario.

ALEX, I hope you get well soon, I know that pain. Thanks again for the cute song list - loved it.

ALEX and Irene, (Hello Suzi J. good to see you) and all the commenters.

Please send the Kit-Kats my way. I love them. I know they are probably not good like Kate's organic,but I can't help myself.

Irene thanks for the encouragement. All the bloggers are so great on this site and you stand-up for Z and us. :)

Hey Z, I just get the feeling that some of the commentators might be trying to set the record straight for TLC & the Kate side is all. It is just little posts thrown around trying discredit what we are blogging about. i.e. why TLC is suing Jon. i.e. the lawyer calling you, etc.

That is allright there are 2 sides to every story. And all comments that are civil and not slanderous are welcome. I just want commentators to defend their position is all.

If TLC/Kate worked as hard at trying to be truthful and not "SPINNERS OF THE CAUSE" probably some of us fans of the show could sympathize. I invested alot of hours as a watcher of this show. I know the Gosselins have a right to privacy etc. I know the show is just a snapshot of their lives. I just do not agree that they should have taken the High road of manipulation where they have.

Elaine~ How many accounts do they really have? Was that the last 1,000 sitting in her purse that day? Did they have marital problems that they knew were straining the marriage in October of 2008? Did they really try counseling that involved saving the brand? When one wanted to decrease or cease filming did the other not agree? When TLC released the statement in 2008 that the show allowed the mom to be at home did they decide to put Kate out of her home 22 days out of the month? Was Jon talked into quitting his job to stay home with those kids?

I could go on and on and on.
Bottom line...I think we are hitting some nerves with your Blog and our exposing some real truths that hurt Tlc & their Golden Girl Kate.

The purpose of my earlier post was just to poke fun @ the thought that we bloggers do not really know the truth. Sure, we do not know the whole truth and nothing but the whole truth....But we have our facts straighter than the other side that cant remember details like when this marriage really broke down, how much is in that purse, and just how many lies have really been told.

Hi Irene, Your perception is right. TLC is watching the blog closely and sometimes sending me emails of complaint. As a journalist, I listen to everyone, you know that. There are also ringers trying to post comments that are so transparently the work of a PR operation that it is laughbale. The fact that they are operating this way tells me the show is in real trouble. I think you are right: It is good to defend our positions. But the scrutyiny is testament mainly to what keen insights and great work the commenters and bloggers her are doing. Thanks. Z

Z....

You stated that TLC has sent you some "emails of complaint".

What the heck do they have to complain about? I mean, the majority of us are good spellers, so that can't be it.

Do they not like us bringing their golden girl to the jury of her peers? Oh wait, Kate G HAS no peers. And, we can thank God for that.

Do they not like some of the posters putting blame on TLC for exploitation of children? Whoops, sorry bout that.

Do they not like accusations that their "brutally honest" and "intimate" interviews with Ms Kate are actually scripted and rehearsed? Well, then, TLC, do a live interview with an audience of everday people asking the questions. No rules applied to those questions.

Do they not like that most of the TV viewers have seen through the facade of the Gosselins and realize they are probably 2 of the dumbest people on the planet? Well, then, show proof to the contrary.

Hey, maybe TLC is taking tips from the White House and is trying to control what is said in the press and blogosphere.

Well, TLC..look how well that went for the White House.

In the last email, TLC tried to claim the moral high ground. I will say no more. But the concept of TLC claiming the moral high ground in any matter related to "Jon & Kate" is almost too much to believe, I know. Z

What do you think it will take for TLC to realize that the "Gosselin Brand" will never again represent "family entertainment"?

What I am sincerely hoping for, is that there are lawyers lining up to assist the Gosselin children to sue TLC, NBC, Discovery Channels and personally every producer, and Eileen O'Neill for their participation in the destruction of their family and childhood on camera.

I, normally, hate lawsuits "blaming" people and hoping for money but in this case I feel like the companies and people involved completely ignored ethics of working with children and pushed ahead fulling knowing that they were harming these children. (who are reportedly suffering emotionally per both parents but no one seems to feel they need therapy!)

What if- Eileen O'Neill's child would be an interesting subject to film- how would Eileen feel putting her own child in a bathroom with a cameraman? or pointing a camera in her face with a recording boom as her child had a tantrum? You know it would NEVER happen. She will protect her child yet use others for profit. It astounds me that someone who is a a parent would use children without reflecting what harm they are doing. Just because there is no federal law to protect those children.

While the parents signed the contact, do not the professionals who developed the idea, filmed it and profited from it have a responsibility for providing therapy and compensation for the damage they knowingly caused?

I remember reading that some shows, like Survivor provided therapy to the participants after filming to help them get back to normal afterwards.

Forget the parents- they are not thinking of the children. What about the responsibility of the network, producers etc in assisting these children get help? Part of their therapy needs maybe divorce related but also they have entered school and discovered that people (other children) have seen them cry, poop, and be made fun of on TV. Does this not point to extensive therapy needed to assist them to deal with the exposure of their private lives to the schoolmates?

Sorry this is long but I am tired of the parents antics and the lack of concern/action to help the children.

I by no means support or agree with the public actions of Kate or Jon through this divorce. However, why does everyone think their kids are being exploited when there are other reality shows like "The Duggars", "Table for Twelve", "The Little People", etc. are not accused of the same thing.

They are all doing these shows for the money they receive, but "Jon and Kate plus 8" seems to be the only show being accused of exploiting the kids.

What's up with that?

Sorry Z I tired to post something and it looked like it wouldn't connect so I pushed the button several times now it says "blocked for too frequent post" Oops

HI Maura, I am sorry. They are having trouble with the software today and yesterday. They say it is back up now. Please try a separate post, and let me know if it goes through. If you have a problem, please let me know. here is my email: david.zurawik@baltsun.com

Speaking of "product placement", I received a response from a JC stating that he was Jeff Christopher, of Gosselin's dog fame and took great issue with my referring to him as a "backyard breeder." He did say that my comments were "clever" but that he has bred police dogs. He also referred to the Gosselins as "that poor unfortunate family." I rechecked my research, but could not find him listed on the rnet as a qualified G erman Shepherd breeder. Can anyone else?

Thanks, Patti, for posting this. let's see what others know. Let's see if the post was legit -- and if he is as well. I had two German Shepherds. I'll check him out with my vet who is an expert of German Shepherd breeders in the Northeast. Thanks. Z

Mary I like your post. I know that there are other similar shows out there.

Jon & Kate plus 8 catipulted all those shows. Jon & Kate sold their reality show as "realist reality on Tv" that simply is not true.

I have watched the other families. But, what has transpired with the way TLC has handled the Gosselins has turned me off to even watching the other families. I do not want to see what happened to the Gosselins happen to them.

I am going back to the Dilley Sextuplet days. They do some media, have had a movie and books. The majority though of the time those parents are just working and raising their kids. They gave up a big house that was built to suit the kids for a smaller house they could afford. They have sacrificed and given their children childhoods.

Also, Jon and Kate and TLC have opened themselves up for this. It is ironic that the very words these parents and TLC says comes back to bite them...The one I snicker about is TLC saying: The show provided the mom to be able to stay at home line

Thanks for your post

Reply To Mary (11:46)

You ask why we don't feel the kids on the other TLC shows (that you mentioned) are being exploited.

I watch the Duggars and the Hayes family shows. I have glanced at the Little People show.

From what I see, the Duggars are wonderful parents with a huge family. Their children are respected and know they are loved and give that right back to their parents. And, also, they are respectful of others outside the family. The Hayes family gives me the exact same impression. Also, both families include their extended family and friends in their shows. They both offer many kind acts towards others.

Fast forward to the Gosselins. They have never thanked anyone for anything, unless push came to shove. They thought they deserved anything in this world just because they had 8 children. Kate has been rude to her fans, even saying they annoyed her. Yes, she has changed that tune now, but we know it is fake and is under the damage control heading. They constantly said they had no help and accepted trips, without ever saying they didn't pay for them. Kate made a show of using coupons like she was a regular mom and spewed advice on how to cook on a budget, all the while, she hardly cooked or paid for her groceries.

The comparison is endless and the Gosselins fail on every point. They had the one chance to redeem themselves and they have blatantly ignored that chance. At a time when their family is in crisis and their kids need 100 percent of their parents concentration, these 2 people have refused to end their charade and step out of the spotlight for the sake of their kids.

So, Mary, I speak for myself in this reply, but if you can argue one point of this post, please do.

I'm certainly not an expert on phoniness, but I do think I am smart enough to figure out if I am being shammed.

Thanks, MarieE. Excellent. Z

marie E and Patti,

I will have to agree that the Duggar's, the Hayes family, and the Roloff family all seem to have different values than the Gosselin's from what I have seen. I used to watch Little People Big World a lot and the Duggar's. Then there is a family in Indiana who have multiples, the Dilley's and they seem very grounded.

Patti, it would be great to know about the breeder of the German Shepards. I have a vet in my neighbohood who is a good friend. He lives a couple of doors up maybe he know where to look for this information also. I will try to find out. Or hopefully Z can find out. The dogs were such a sad part of all of this mess.

Z, I would not be surprised if the direct link to here, posted on GWOP's homepage, is what's caused the blog slow-down. GWOP gets an enormous amount of traffic -- good for you, I guess! : )

I am finding this whole Gosselin situation more & more disturbing as each day goes by. Each parent is so concerned about their EGO, then cannot put the war of words aside for 2 minutes to tend to their precious children's needs??? Shame on them. Humility goes a long way. I'm recently married and am learning that very quickly.

In other news....HOW 'BOUT THEM YANKS?!? Yeah!

In baltimore, one has to be very careful about saying anything nice about the Yankees. But i was rooting for them, and thought they were great in the series. I will duck now as the heavy artillery from angry Orioles' fans (of which I am one) stand landing on my deskk. Z

Thanks for the warm welcome Alex.

I have been enjoying the posts by fellow bloggers in response to Z's posts. Some great deconstruction of the Gosselin saga, and much needed illumination on the "realist reality show out there."

For anyone who loves a conspiracy theory, and enjoys data mining... check out the history of edits to the Gosselin Page on Wikipedia or the history of edits on the "big" questions on Wiki.answers.com.

Keep in mind, these are open documents.. so anyone can submit changes and edits. Honestly, a lot of it is complete drivel.

But for those with a curious mind, and a plentiful supply of caffeine, there is a treasure trove of edits by both anonymous contributors, and registered users who all have very interesting user names/IP addresses. Anyone with a passing-familiarity with the Gosselin blog community will immediately recognize these aliases.

In some cases, the truth was reverted by wiki editors (there are lots of Wiki folk) because it appeared to be nonsense... and eventually restored when someone realized it wasn't a crackpot posting.. it was the truth.

Sorting through it all is maddening, and attempting to explain will probably put most people to sleep... but.. for those of you with a nose for it.. there are gems in there. Buried, but they are there.

Z is right, there is a book in this. I would wager.. more than one book.

And no, I am not referring to the tens of books on parenting Kate referred to during 'Kate: Her Story'.

Hi Wiki Editor: I love the insight you offer on the "re-writing" of J&KK history. Thanks. Z

Thank you marieE thank you
thank you thank you thank you thank you marieE thank you

I think that was x 8.

Next week is Kate counting down viewers' favorite moments of the show. I have looked, but found nowhere to submit my favorite moments of this show to TLC. Since TLC is reading this site, I will post my favorite moment of the show here, in hopes it will make the Monday broadcast.
My favorite moment was when Kate burned the crap out of herself on the Key West getaway. Oh, please, please, show it again!!!!

Hi tj, That is hilarious -- posting it here because that is the only sure way to get TLC execs to see it. I'm guessing your moment still won't be included. Ha. Z

Ha ha! I graduated from Loyola College & then stayed in Baltimore for 6 years after graduation. I know full well how you Marylanders think the sun rises & sets with the Orioles (and that Cal Ripken, does he walk on water down there?!). I used wear my Yankees gear to Camden Yards even when the Yanks weren't playing the Orioles. I just about took my life in my hands : )

I am surrpised you ahve lived to tell the tale. Ha. Enjoy the great victory. Remember how everyone was picking the Phillies after Game Two?Z

To MarieE - that was an excellent analogy of the other families vs. the Gosselins. Michelle Duggar really personifies all that Kate will never be. Michelle will speak softly with love and patience to a child who needs attention and Kate is screaming for Jon to stop building beds, shelves, whatever and come get "his child". The few times Kate has been shown being kind to one of her children it was easily recognizable as being contrived and coached by the producers. Kate has no natural instinct to be nurturing to her kids.

Even though Kate is completely in bed with TLC, I still think that TLC loves to show her in her worst light. And Kate has no idea it has been happening from the beginning.

One more thing, let's set up a pool on how long it will be till Katie Irene will do a "graceful and tasteful yet provocative" spread in Playboy for some bucks. Her 45th birthday is just too far away, I am not sure she would even wait till 40, because I think she is going to need the bucks way before then. She wants to be in movies - do you think she would make a great porn star? I have the title for the first movie - "Why is the Beaver Tail on Your Head?" (Z you can take this out if you need to)

Jon will be a Nutrisystem and Nicoderm spokesperson soon.

My favorite moment on the show is when they all sit around the table at the restaurant and Gretchen and Tamra start arguing with each other and Vicki Gunvalson starts complaining about Don. Oh, wait, wrong show. Are you referring to the Gosselins? I'm sorry, I don't watch it or TLC for that matter.

"Remember how everyone was picking the Phillies after Game Two? Z"

I never picked the Phillies! I am a lifer with the Yankees. I DO remember getting a lot of smack talk from the Phillies fans in my life.

Also, I live in the NY Metro area, so there are no Phillies fans here. Well, they are few & far between and they also keep quiet because they are so outnumbered : ) So if people were picking the Phillies after Game 2, I didn't hear about it.

All I know is the best team won, the Yanks had a super post-season and I am so proud of my beloved Bronx bombers!

Any idea on why World Series ratings have dropped so much in the past 20, 30, 40 years?

Z, I have a problem.

I came to the Jon/Kate party late, perhaps almost a year ago.

I have watched the Duggars for 6 months, or less.

I cannot stand how the G's have used and exploited their children for financial gain.
I like the Duggars, they are kind, giving, respectful, etc.

Here is my problem: On a recent show, Jim Bob said something to the effect that, in a week's time period, his family spent a little less time filming than the average family watched tv.

If that is the case, then why are the Duggars getting a free pass? They are basically doing the same thing the G's are. I also bet they are not placing money in accts for their children.

What are your thoughts??

If there are any bloggers around Berks County, PA who would like to search for Jeff Christopher, Genman Shepher breeder, here's a start: Humane Society Of Berks County PA | Reading, PA | 610-921-2348.

When the Nora Restaurant in DC rumor started to move like wildfire, I called the restaurant and inquired if Kate Gosselin was filming there for a TV show (she wasn't), but have told myself, since I'm on the opposite of the country I'm going to leave the sleuthing on the East Coast to East Coasters and save on my long distance phone bill.

Regarding TLC sending you emails, Z, that's very gratifying to know. We're doing something right!

When I posted on a political website years ago, we knew when we were getting close to sleuthing out a lie from the "other side" when they'd send their shills to the website to cause distractions. We called them "hit and run" posters and their purpose was to get us off topic.

As for TLC taking the moral highground, isn't that a laugh? They've gone tabloid on us with the J&K fiasco. I doubt they can clean up their reputation now. They'll be forever linked to this disaster.

Aly,

I might be willing to give it a try thanks for the information. I have free minutes on our cell phone. I will just have to call from outside on our deck because we live out just far enough there is no signal inside. haha No need for you to run up a long distance phone bill.

It will have to be tomorrow. I have to leave soon and will be gone most of the evening. I do have a soft spot for animals. I love my dog. If we could find an answer, I think Patti had a great question earlier. I'll let you know. My neightbor also works for The Wilds an animal preserve near here. She is heavily involved in dog rescue programs, she might help me. I can give her a call. :)

TLC could take the moral high road (along with Kate) if they quit trying to sell lies. Jon and Kate made it their point to tell the viewer, be that tv audience or church goer, that they were struggling financially and had to budget and plan and really think about every purchase. Sacrifice to eat healthy, not buy clothes, etc. That was a lie and a scam as evidenced by them upgrading from a $300,000 home to a $1.5 million home. Their marriage was a scam, the end of which concealed from viewers while Kate kept maintaining their show was a documentary, the realist reality show on tv. Their puported lack of help in the home was a scam. So if TLC wants to take the high road with bloggers, it best do so, or continue taking these hits.

Please cancel the show. This fakeness has gone on long enough. I cringe when I hear or see the name any more. Kate, go back to nursing. At least you can't fake your way through that job.

Kate is in so much denial about the show and her part in the divorce. What is her problem? If a show is this detrimental to you family, you stop the show, it is that simple...good grief! I just don't get it with her. All signs are pointing to the show as her problem, stop it!!!! As far as Jon.. he is just so lost right now and I worry about his emotional stability...this may to much for one person to take....

During DogGate, I had stated that I, like others here, have had German shepherd dogs (rest in peace, my beauties).

Anyway.. I searched for information on this "breeder" too. I have found nothing and of course, I know, the kennel name doesn't have to have the owner's name, so could be listed under anything.

But, one thing sticks in my head. That is when the Gosselins picked up the dogs, Kate said something like they would take them home that day, even though they didn't plan on it. This was because it was a few hours drive. Then, when Jon had them picked up, I thought (?) that he or the breeder said something about the kennel being in Delaware.

Does anyone else remember this?

Again, as I said in the previous posts, I still don't believe that kennel was a certified reputable breeder. It looked a mess and seemed to be just a backyard breeder. The pups that they "bought" were 2 different variations of a GSD. One was an American GSD and the other was a German GSD. DId he mix the two variables?

My main reasons for this assumption is that a true breeder would have interviewed this family before the day of pickup. They would have made a few visits as the pups got old enough to leave the mother and he would have observed the interaction.

Kate went on how she didn't even have anything at home for the dogs, since they didn't know they were getting them that day. That is UNHEARD of when you deal with a true breeder. An authentic breeder sends you home with volumes of instructions and information and a startup kit of food and leashes and collars. They don't stand by the car as you scribble instructions into a a little notepad. And, I loved how Kate said "Wait, I have to pay for them, don't I?" and then took out her checkbook and started scribbling again. Yeah sure, Kate.

My breeder even said she was going to make a visit to my house in a few months to check out how things were going. That was in the contract, with no negotiation. (and she did!)

But, the thing that cements my instincts is no breeder worth anything would let 2 puppies go home with a family that has 8 children under the age of 9. Especially a breeder of large dogs that could be potentially dangerous if not trained properly.

Plus, if a breeder heard one of the small children say "I am afraid of dogs", that would have killed that deal immediately. One of the little boys was trying to get away from the large dogs and was asking if he was going to eat him.

If this man is a true, AKC certified breeder, then why hasn't he spoken out? I'm sure he knows there are many questions regarding his certification, he was on tv and knows the circus that is surrounding this family and also the two dogs.

So, Mr George Christopher or TLC, please come forward and stand up for your "breeder" reputation.

Amen. I second everything you said aboutr reputable breeders and the care they take. Good call on this one. Let's see if he comes forward publicly -- or just sends emails of complaint behind the scenes. Rest in piece to the two fabulous ladies we had as well. Thanks, MarieE. Z

""The Duggars", "Table for Twelve", "The Little People", etc. are not accused of the same thing.

They are all doing these shows for the money they receive, but "Jon and Kate plus 8" seems to be the only show being accused of exploiting the kids."
Mary (11:50)

I think what stands out to me (and I have to admit that I have not watched these shows, only read about them) is that each child's privacy is respected and they are not filmed when they ask not to be. (no bathroom scenes, no mother demeaning them or making fun of them on camera when they are not present).
What stands out to me is that the treatment of the Gosselin children on camera has been invasive and harsh. Too many examples of this to count.
The parents have been exposed as liars. I think this is why the backlash.

Maybe the other children are suffering from a camera in their face also but not complaining. They do not seem to be overexposed in the media and the parents appear to be loving and protective.

Is this reality? who knows? Maybe all the Duggars, Hayes and other Reality TV kids will be writing tell all books in a few years!

I really think there have to be laws to protect all children in the entertainment field. Every child in every state treated the same and under the same labor guidelines. No matter how fun and harmless it may look on ANY of the reality shows- those children are in front of cameras and they are working!

Oh my, tj ! You brought my mind back to the Key West episode where Kate got so sunburned she had sun poisoning...that was great! Everytime I see that I think"some nurse she is"!! Yup, she said she doesn't like how sun lotion makes her feel greasy...guess she is so wonderful & all knowing that malignant melanoma doesn't cross her mind?--It gave her the creeps to take the staples out of Jon's head...also,she was gagging when the kids had the stomach flu.ACCKK!! -Please, if she has to go back to nursing, don't let it be at a facility near me!
On another note....did anyone, but me, notice that Kate used to dress like a regular "at home Mom" until about a year and a half ago? Then she started into "diva mode" with all the make-up , designer clothes and that stupid hair.Have you ever wonder why she suddenly had a fashion epiphany? (Do ya think that just maybe somebody other than Jon came into her life about then..wouldn't surprise me.)
The show is DUN...TLC is beating a dead horse (or beaver in this case).

Marie e (5 PM)

AKC absolutely, positively in NO WAY "certifies breeders". They are a registry that also sponsor organized dog competitions.

Each individual breed club does have a Code of Ethics that members must follow or be subject to reprimand. However, you do not have to be a member in order to produce dogs. While club membership may be an indication of a good breeder - as it may show that they're involved in their breed, networking - it's not guaranteed, nor does lack of membership necessarily make someone a backyard breeder (BYB).

The Gosselins apparently got GSD from two different "lines" (not "variations") - American and German. There is nothing ethically wrong with crossing the lines, though most people don't. American lines tend to be softer dogs, less work ethic, with more extreme structure. Imports tend to be much drivier and more athletic.

American lines would be more appropriate for a family with small children, UNLESS the parents are EXPERIENCED with both dogs in general and dogs of that personality and temperament. I know of a couple people who have tons of small children and could handle two puppies at once, but they're pretty rare. As an active rescuer I would have recommended ONE middle aged sporting breed, from a foster home where they had been screened for children. Of course they wouldn't have gotten the dog that day! They would have had a home visit, with me bringing my dog so I could see how the children interacted with them. (OMG that is always soooooooo telling!!!!) The child afraid of the dog probably would have nixed the adoption, if it was truly fearful and not just wary. Also it was pretty clear that the mother didn't really want the dog, and we won't adopt until all family members are in agreement.

Of course I would have asked the family what they know about the breed, why they want it, where the dog will sleep and spend their days, how they will train it, get history of past pet ownership, where they'll take it for medical treatment and when, and check references. I also like to get an idea of their budgetary expectations as people new to ownership totally underestimate costs! I'm fairly certain none of the answers I'd have received would've passed muster. (I can see Kate writing "I want the dog because the PR person told me to, and it better be free!")

One thing that caught my eye in the ROL interview with the breeder is that they're planning on breeding the dogs. Not the breeder themselves, but they were going to let Jon & Kate do that. NO WAY does a responsible breeder allow a new dog owner to do that! A few will do co-owns, where the breeder makes the key decisions but the dog can reside with the other family, but rarely with someone NEW to ownership much less someone that doesn't plan to do any competitive activities to test the dog against their breed standard. PUHLEEEZE!!!!!!!

This guy is a joke. The Gosselin "adults" (should I say the "oldest two"?) are jokes. The media that continues this circus are jokes. The PA DOL is a joke. I feel very sorry for the kids.

Hi Hope, Thanks for the information -- and your rescue work. Our greatest dog ever was a German Shepherd rescued off a farm in East Texas. She had the biggest, bravest, greatest, kindest heart I have ever encountered. Z

http://www.gsdca.org/gsdca_joomla/index.php/breederclassified/region-1-northeastern

These are the people to speak to regarding Jeff Christopher. This is the link to the German Shepherd Breed Club. AKC means nothing. The AKC would register a frog if the parents were also registered. These are the questions to ask:
Is he a member in good standing with the club? Does he attend shows? Is there a waiting list for his dogs? (2 years is not unheard of) Are the hips of the parents of the dogs certified?

See, the problem is, only in the last few months has this scam of a family pinged the radar of the masses. Sure, people in Berks County were on to them well before TLC came calling...or, errr...before Kate shopped that home video to every 'documentary film maker' in the business...depending on who you believe. ...

Hi, Thanks for the comment, but I am not publishing links until I can check them out. Z

Hope...

Thanks for the call out on my "certified" by AKC comment. I know that AKC does not "certify" any breeder and used that word in error.

Also, thanks for the reiteration of my post about the dedication and protection towards dogs that true breeders and rescue groups practice.

I know the breeder had stated that the 2 dogs were "brother and sister" and thought it odd that they were 2 different lines of the breed. Doesn't seem to me like that particular breeder cared much about the purity of either line.

And, yes, I totally agree that breeders do NOT allow buyers who buy the pup as a "house pet" to breed the dogs. My breeder would not relinquish total ownership papers until I had our dogs neutered and spayed.

Kate said that the dogs had "chewed" through or bent the sides of the steel crates. That really got my blood boiling. Dogs in distress will display this behavior. How long did that stupid woman keep these large strong dogs caged in the course of a day?

The only thing that saves me in this is that she has proven herself to be a liar. And, maybe she made up the crate chewing story just to show how she was trying to look out for their best interest by returning them.

Ok, first off, thanks to ya'll for putting a smile on my face. Next, is it just me or did anyone really think Jon would take getting treated like pond scum on national tv "as long as you both shall live" as in the wedding vows? I watch them cos it just really makes my life feel GOOOD! I knew something was fishy the first time I heard Kate say she feeds organic. Living in the north, having a short growing season, that has to be a serious chunk of change.

I'm just going to sit and watch this all play out like the rest of the fictional tv and sitcoms. I've yet to see any real reality tv, it's all spiced up so we'll keep watching--who knows....maybe Jon will guest star on American Chopper, he seems to like verbal abuse.......

Know it all...

I disagree that its only the last few months that the masses have realized this couple is a sham. There have been blog sites that were anti-Gosselin from the very beginning of the show.

But, I think most let the sham stay under the wire, until Ms Kate began her metamorphosis into a Princess Diana/Victoria Beckham Wannabe. And, then she began pushing and pushing for more and more. She turned the show into a freebie grabbing spectacle and less about the kids and all about the mother and her self-professed stardom.

I live in NJ and remember reading in the paper about the woman in PA who had twins and gave birth to sextuplets. As in all other large multiple birth situations, I thought it was great that they were getting donations and helpers for the babies. I don't begrudge anyone getting assistance in time of need.

But, this duo wouldn't let go when the time came. They decided the world owed them a living. Leaks came out of the area where they lived and they became pretty well known to be "its all about us" people, even as the show was in its infancy.

So, now, instead of being a family who lucked into a tv show, made some nice money and moved on, they have become media jokes. But, they STILL won't let go!

Kate has made it known that there is "no way to turn back". She sure gives herself quite the aura of unforgettable importance, doesn't she?

Hey, Britney Spears did it, Kate, I think a nobody like you can do it too.

Britney... who?

Here is my take on the breeder. He was approached by the producers and given this big story that the dogs would be superstars on TV, he would get all kinds of free publicity (advertising) and all would be well.

I don't know whether he wanted to interview the Gosselins concerning dog ownership. I imagine whatever questions or concerns he had were answered with "You signed a confidentiality agreement. Everything is fine. Kate doesn't need to be screened, she is a star. Don't worry about regular procedure. And, won't it make more great publicity for you when the dogs mate and produce puppies? You can come to the home and help out, be on a few more shows, be with the famous family for a day. Don't ask questions, just do what we say or we will find a breeder who will work with us."

I think this breeder was hoodwinked and blindsided before he knew what happened. I hold no animosity towards him. In fact, I am so grateful he took the dogs back.

WackyinTX...

Brush up on your Gosselin Trivia!

Jon G has already guest starred on American Chopper. He got to design his own bike.

This was done during the episodes that TLC was still trying to make us believe they were a family, And, yes, they tried to belittle Jon, calling him sissy boy or something like that. All in good fun.

The Chopper family also went to PA to deliver 2 (TWO!) custom bikes for Mr & Mrs G. Mr G loved his and Mrs G flirted and fussed and mounted her pink bike with a short skirt and high wedged shoes and rode it up and down the long driveway, cackling all the way.

As soon as the Chopper family drove out of sight, Kate G announced she was donating her bike to "somewhere".

She has always been the appreciative type, doncha know.

Hi MarieE, The gracious Kate Gosselin. I remember the chopper episodes. Thanks for another Great Gosselin Moment. Z

Regarding the German Shephard Breeder, I wouldn't drag him into this mess. He's a retired Pennsylvania State Trooper who has been breeding dogs for years. His reputation shouldn't be besmirched just because he was an unwitting victim in this Gosselin scam. At least he did the right thing and took the dogs back as most reputable breeders would do when the current owners couldn't stand up and take responsibility for the care and love of those beautiful animals. He should be given accolades for taking them back from an abusive home.

Hi Kelly, Thanks for the information. Yes, he did take them back, but Kate Gosselin said a couple of weeks ago on-air that she is hoping to take them back again, which seems highly questionable to some of the bloggers here -- allowing the dogs to be bounced around that way. If he is out of it, I hope folks will leave him alone. But I believe he contacted one of the commenters here. Thanks. Z

I agree with most everyone on this blog - the Gosselins need to pack it up and raise their children in private - and quit the show. I loved Jon & Kate Plus 8 in the first couple of years, but since the Gosselins moved into their mansion the show no longer appeals to me. They are no longer an ordinary couple doing something extraordinary (raising 8 kids). They do behave as if they have a sense of entitlement.

I am more sympathetic to Jon than I am towards Kate. Kate is a rageaholic who has shown she has little control over her emotions when she was berating her husband on national TV. It's interesting how much control she now has over her emotions (although I'm sure she has been coached by PR people from TLC how to behave during TV interviews).

As for Jon's erratic behavior - I'll say that this man is "grieving" the collapse of his marriage. Grief can make all of us do some pretty whacky things. Jon is likely embarassed for the way his wife treated him - and he's having to deal with all the media scrutiny - and do all of it on the world's stage.

Divorce does little more than change the roles of who becomes the dictator and hurts the next generation. Jon is moving in Kate's time zone and is evolving her identity. By this I mean that he is having a delayed response in reacting to Kate's belittling of him.

I sincerely hope this family will step away from the media spotlight and raise their family in private. None of us would want to have our personal business all of the airwaves (granted they put themselves in this situation). I really hope that TLC pulls the plug on the show. Enough is enough!!!

Hellllooooo earthlings LOL I never claimed to be current on what goes on on TLC anymore. I DO remember when TLC was the learning channel, and when they got rid of Paige Davis, I wandered off to other channels other than to occasionally see what the Gosselins were up to. When it hit the news about jon's affair, even though I think Kate is a selfish control freak (kinda redundant but I can't say what I REALLY want to call her), I could relate and felt sorry for her. Then there were the puppies, and I was done. Nothing chaps my hide worse than people abusing kids or critters, and neglect comes to mind for the kids and the puppies. Or giving people motorcycles that don't deserve them hahaha.

I'm just hoping that somewhere out there there is a psychologist gearing up to do the series "Fixing the disfunction of Jon and
Kate's 8"

Hello WackyinTX: Thanks for the smiles. I spent some time in Texas at the late great Dallas Times Herald. Z

Z - I think Kate is blackmailing TLC. I think she has some really vile dirt on them - that has to be the only reason why they continue to promote, protect, and elevate this abusive loser to sainthood. What do you think? Thanks.

Sherry T,

It would be great if you could find anything out about about the breeder. I wish someone would step forward and take those two dogs and give them a good home.

Know it all --

Just put it out there. Many of the bloggers here already know a lot about the Gosselins.. but most people are new to the situation, and probably would be surprised by what you know.

And input from someone who watched it all from the very very beginning would be interesting to everyone.

Do dish!

In the meantime, I want to know what TLC's moral high ground is in this situation.

Hi Z,
You are correct by saying that Kate Gosselin said she hoped to take them back again. Kate also said she's never used the word Papparazzi (sic) and she never eats anything but organic and her kids asked about the triangular shaped
"thingies" (doritos) and Jon left her pennyless and all the other lies that have spewed out of her smug little eyebrow arched face. There is about as much of a chance of Kate taking back those dogs as there is Kate giving back all the love offerings she took under the guise of being a struggling family. My bet is that the breeder will do the honorable thing and keep those dogs forever so no one can claim fame to owning a Gosselin dog. They were treated with such disdain by her and those kids.

If by chance she ever did get those dogs back, they'll end up on EBAY for their dollar value. I've got to go now and take my two dogs outside for their daily Gosselin.

Good for you, taking the two dogs out. I hope the breeder tells Kate Gosselin where to go also if she ever tried to get those dogs back. But I think you are right, the last thing she ever wants is to see those two dogs again. TLC just thought it would be good PR for her to say she is hoping they will be able to come back some day -- liek there is some force besides her keeping them from coming back. Thanks. Kelly. Z

I loved the show when it was about the kids as babies, and as toddlers.

Sadly, its very true that children are no longer interesting to WATCH on a reality tv show, once they reach a certain age, around the age of 5 years old.

Therefore, the show needs to be over for now, and perhaps revisited in specials now and then, every 3 - 5 years. I am sure TLC would be granted a huge audience for those specials.

All of this Kate and Jon business, the filming and the milking of it, well, its akin to trying to get blood from a stone.

Note to TLC: there is no THERE there.

ALY and FreetheGosselin8,

I did email Penny Kroh in Pennsylvaina the breeder that you listed in the link and asked about Jeff Christopher and the questions that were posed. I gave my email address. Will see if I get a response.

Aly: I will call the number you provided. I have to search the house for my cell phone. Misplaced it. It would be nice to get some answers about the dogs. It would be tragic if Kate was ever allowed to have them back.

I watched an old show when the tups were 3 - Jon said he would never want to stay at home with the kids, which is what he ended up doing last year at about the time they were moving. With a controlling, yet hardly present wife, being a SAHD with 8 kids and a stringent contract with TLC, as well as taking on packing up and moving house during this time, it's no wonder Jon had the life sucked out from him. They were a train wreck waiting to happen, and all that is left is to clean up the mess, at this point. So sorry for the kids, and the family that they once may have been.

ALY: (Good morning Z, Irene, Aly, Suzi J., ALEX, all the commenters:

ALY: The email I sent to the ling that FreeTheGosselin8 put up about the Gosselin dogs did not get anywhere. They emailed back and said they did not know the breeder. But, the were nice enough to answer my email. - Penny Kroh. Aly found my cell phone in car and it is charging so I will cal the number you provided when I return.

I really hope we can find some information on the dogs!!! I read an article last night that said that the kids were abusive to the dogs and that Jon sent them back, but then he was getting calls from agencies about animal abuse, so the story changed somewhat. That is sad.

See you in a little bit. I am heading to the gorge to climb the railroard trestel with my dog. Yea. It is a nice day and I need to be outside.

Here we go the Kate that never uses the media.

Kate's friend Jamie Ayers does an interview with Life and Style Magazine trying to do damage control again and convince us what a loving, organized person Kate is.

Sorry I have come to the conclusion it is about Kate, for Kate and nothing but Kate x 8. And, that is my story and I am sticking to it!?!

Love your blog Z and I'm thrilled to see other people finally seeing the truth about this show. My repsonse to anyone asking why the other shows on TLC get a "pass" on child exploitation is simple. The other parents are supportive and protective of their kids. The other families have real jobs, policeman, running a farm etc. They aren't putting the full burden of providing for their families on the backs of children or toddlers.

When the Gosselins first season aired they had maybe 8 episodes. That would have been a nice supplement to their incomes and would not have been overly intrusive in their daily lives. Season 4 had at least 40 episodes. (Heck I wish LOST had that many episodes instead of the 15 or so we get to see!) That many episodes a season means no break from filming. It's alot more than the other family shows on TLC. It also means more time on camera and WORKING for the Gosselin children. No child should be subjected to that.

My biggest question to TLC is when the marriage started to unravel why did you continue? You knew it was happening and you still put this family under the microscope for ratings and your money. Worse yet, today you are undermining the family even more by going after the childrens father in court. If you care about the kids like you want us to believe, drop the lawsuit. You don't need the money, you've already made alot off those poor kids. It's obviously only punitive.

Show us a higher standard TLC. I may come back and watch Say Yes to the Dress and Cake Boss. Until then I will not only avoid your channel, I will actively campaign that my family and friends do the same.

Hi Z. There is a post by "anonymous" at 12:39 AM that uses an offensive term at the end of it to describe the children. You may want to look at it. Thanks.

Hi Amy, Thanks for alerting me. I just took it down. I am offended as well. It slipped through. I apperciate the diligence of bloggers like you. I have been scrambling the last 24 hours on other stories and am just catching up on blog. Again, thanks so much. Z

with all the sadness in our world today, I am so disappointed in TLC for continuing to show Kate Gosselin display her phony tears and concerns about financial matters. At one time TLC stood for "The Learning Channel"...change your title to "The Loser Channel.

Thank you kate and Jon for sharing your family with the families of the world. It has been a journey of a life time. your children are lovely and each one has a personality of their own.

I am from NZ and grew up in a family of 14 children and two more adopted cousins.

I'm happy to see that you had assistance from TLC. In my mum and dads case they had a very supportive extended whanau (Family.) My heart goes out to you because that is so important in raising a large family more so in your situation with them all coming at once. I guess that is what the staff of TLC has become to the children.

I am Maori and very laid back, my darling was just like you, very structured, organized and a classic case of OCD. Of course it didn't help that he is British.

When we were married my dad gave us the cheapest gift. It was a $1.50 wall hanging od to holly hobby girl and boy holding hands looking into the sunset.
Under it the caption read "Love is not looking at each other saying I love you, love is looking in the same direction."

It took me 6 years of trial and error to figure out what that mean't. Because my culture is a show me don't tell me while honeys is tell me and show me.

We still have our ups and downs but after 34 years of heaven and hell our five children are grown up with their own families and memories of their childhood that will be passed down from generations to come.

I hope you and Jon can work through your problems and continue to bring your babies up together. Just remember none of us are perfect we all have faults . The sad thing about this whole thing is that if you and Jon step back and take a long look at where you have come from you will realize that you need to grab hold of each others hand and remember to fight to to look in the same direction which was at the end of the day to be together as a family forever.

(Kia Kaha) be strong Kate and my love to you both. May our Heavenly Father hold you all in the palm of His hand as you work your way back together.

Theres alot of talk about the suit filed by TLC, I know its fun to talk about how ridiculous these 2 knuckleheads are but this legal stuff is pretty bad. I dont know the PA laws, but it really makes TLC look bad, it had been always said if any family member thought this wasnt healthy they can quit. And what happen to the PA investagation about working kids. Big mouth stated on national TV on her show that they filmed 3-4 days a week, then both her and TLC started saying a couple of hours. I hope and pray this judge in both the divorce and this suit has a brain in is head to end this. I'm a "contract honorer" too but I know contracts can be broken.

I just cringe when I think about her grammer, and she would always judge Jon on how he worded things. I'd like to send her a letter, its unorganized not disorganized, and you can't add l y to ever word to make it an adverb, silver platter not gold, you honor contracts not turn it into a noun. therefore and hence have the same meaning, (she corrected Jon one time for saying therefore and said it should be hence) I used to watch but got annyoyed way back before the tabloid mess.

Anyways heres my prediction, they both go broke trying to fight for something that was way wrong to begin with, its seems like there should be some fraud issues, in the way they scammed people to give them material things and money. Rumor has it she is selling things on E Bay, I while back there was a couple who stood on corners with thier child asking for handouts all the while living in a huge house in CA they got arrested. It was one thing in the begining but they totally used people. I do believe this is why this whole thing is turning out the way it is. You cant have an attitude like that and it not come back to bite you.

I'm busy today so I can't investigate the dogs, BUT if the regional headquarters of the GSD breed club has never heard of Jeff Christopher, then that's all I need to know. That means he is not a member of the breed club.

My one fear is that he will soon be selling "Gosselin Puppies" for a very hefty price to uneducated pet owners.

Anyone else notice that kate has a new ring - a huge mother of pearl with 8 small diamonds - that she was going to get "some day", but Im so poor and can afford to feed my kids and pay the mortgage....

I bet she bought it to help her cause because she is so into symbolism these days.....

God that woman......

Kelly -

Kudos to the breeder for taking back the dogs, but he clearly didn't carefully screen the placement in the first place. However, even the best of breeders get hoodwinked at times, so I will give him the benefit of the doubt on that. I had read at one point that he offered the dogs after meeting Kate at a public function. Perhaps he was trying to do something generous and kind and already felt like he "knew" the Gosselins because he'd been watching them on TV. (And doncha know how "real" their show was?!!!) I still seriously disagree with the breeding, but it's possible that TLC is putting screws on him as well to not say anything bad.

It would be great if some intrepid journalist would investigate the Gosselins over their crying poor at hundreds of churches until early this year and accepting money or "love offerings while they were making bank from the show, book sales and all the countless freebies and sponsorships.

It would go a long way toward exposing these grifters for who they really are.

.... calling little ones divisive names is exceptionally low.

Hi Mary, the commenter's name is at the bottom of the post, not the top. The person to whom you addressed this did not write that comment. She wrote the one before it. Go back and please look. The comment to which you refer was signed "anonymous

I have been watching the show from the beginning. It was a nice TV Show which introduced most of us to a different life style. But was it the life style we thought we were seeing? was it magic, all an illusion? of course it was and it was meant to be from the beginning. The problem is most of us weren't honest enough with ourselves to answer one important questions.....DO I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REAL LIFE AND WHAT IS PUT BEFORE ME WHETHER IT BE AN ARTICLE WRITTEN IN THE PAPER, INTERNET OR A TV SHOW? we have only ourselves to blame for the let down we think we are experiencing. I absolutely blame Jon and Kate for allowing themselves, their children, and yes even the animals to be used and abused in this way, we should hold them accountable. Jon and Kate had the inside scoop all along, knowing from the first moment of filming that what was presented to the mass public was not in even the smallest fraction a true representative of their daily lives. By starting out this way they set themselves up to be caught in lies, to do things to their children that they probably had no intention of doing but went along with it anyway. They are guilty of breaking the first rule of good parenting .... in the long run how will this affect my child and the person they will someday become. Many people raise large families with various pets on little to nothing and do a good job at it. Matching clothes, large homes, music lessons are all fine if they are secondary to the raising of the child, if they are within ones current budget and life style. Jon and Kate set out to acquire this lifestyle and in doing so put the children as the secondary concern. Now this is most obvious to everyone, the magic is gone and the illusion explained. So sad but inevitable.

No problem Z. Check them out - you'll appreciate, I'm sure.

Z, I assumed both top and bottom grey lines encompassed its author and his/her response in entirety. My error. Thanks for the heads up. By the way, I found your article through Google News: "Gosselin interview". I wanted (okay, was hoping) her PR-fest would fail miserably. Your article was at the top of Google's News list. Here's hoping Kate Gosselin returns to obscurity!

Hi Mary, The system we use confuses almost everyone, because of the grey lines, just as you say. Sorry about that -- out of my control. But I am glad we got it straight, and whenever you see something like that, please holler. Z

I am not doubting you one bit Karen but can you steer me in the direction about where you heard or saw about that ring the Laughing stock of Tlc may have in her possession?

I am sorry guys I am just not nice today.

"It would be great if some intrepid journalist would investigate the Gosselins over their crying poor at hundreds of churches until early this year and accepting money or "love offerings while they were making bank from the show, book sales and all the countless freebies and sponsorships.

It would go a long way toward exposing these grifters for who they really are.

--Carolina"

That's KEY, Carolina, and desperately needs to be done. They were flying below the radar for years, straight to church pulpits well after the money from TLC and endorsements was rollingin, still peddaling the same old poor pitiful tales of woe from the first months of the tups birth and passing the plate for CASH ONLY donations...NO ONE takes that 'income' into consideration on top of all the money they have made exploiting their children. They made THOUSANDS at those churches from collections and oh, yeah, selling 5 x 7 photos of their kids at 20 bucks a pop, again 'CASH ONLY PLEASE'.

"Jon was fired due to his employer not wanting to insure us..." BS

Magical couch cushions producing house payments...

Sending out MASS emails to friends and family with specific information on all their utilities, including account numbers so their bills could be paid...meanwhile, sitting on 30K+ in the bank from Jon's father's estate settlement...

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

There is so much to be exposed about these scam artists, it's not even funny.

Kate carried around the McCaughey's book for months before conceiving the tups and I ask you - the woman was hospitalized for 'overstimulated ovaries' ONE MONTH before their conception... What doctor in their right mind would inseminate her knowing that??? None, I tell you, but fortunately for Kate she KNOWS her doctors are bound by confidentiality laws that are in place that do not allow them to say one word about how those babies were really conceived. The doctor would not inseminate her so she went home, with those overstimulated follicles, and took care of things the 'old fashioned way'.

Just you guys wait.

Hope,

After the fallout with Kevin and Jodi last year, each and every person who came in contact with the Gosselins, for show purposes or even those as benign as hairdressers, were required to sign confidentiality agreements which stipulate, among other things, they will be sued if they speak one word about their interaction with the Gosselins, Figure 8 or TLC.

I am the writer Jeff Christopher contacted and I am more than grateful for all of your detective work about his credentials. I am thinking that he is concerned about how people see him
now that that the Gossselins have been
exposed. However, even though he is a retired law enforcement, he needs to follow correct procedures in placing animals in homes. Hopefully Kelly and other writers will have him read and respond to this blog. I also wonder if he stll consider the Gosselins " a poor unfortunate family" ?

Hi patti, You are right about the need to follow the procedures that will be best for the dogs. I don't think it matters much in that regard what his non-dog-breeding background involves. Thanks. Z

Hi Patti,

The German Shepherd Dog Club of America does not know who Mr. Christopher is. I contacted someone there. I do hope the dogs have been adopted by a loving family and never go back to the Gosselin family! Thanks for your information on all of this.

Hi Patti,
I tend to give Jeff Christopher the benefit of the doubt regarding the Gosselins getting those dogs in the first place. Pure breed German Shepherds from quality lineage with guaranteed health can go for a pretty steep price, not to mention two of them. Being that the bill was being paid by Discovery it was a business decision I'm sure.

We don't see him questioning them about the yard, the home, the care and usual things a breeder will ask before letting their pups go. This was probably already done previously when TLC sought him out. He is probably bound by a confidentiality clause and can't come to his own defense as it may be actionable to even discuss it.

I feel sorry for the guy for even getting involved with the Gosselins in the first place. He is now in a position, much like the driving instructor from Perry Hall Maryland who was featured in the movie "Borat" and wasn't aware that the movie was actually a scam.

I THINK THAT IT SHOULD BE COURT ORDERED THAT BOTH JON AND KATE TAKE PARENTING CLASSES AND ANGER MANAGEMENT CLASSES!!!!! WTF ARE THESE TWO "PARENTS" THINKING??? COURT ORDERED THERAPY FOR THE TWO OF THEM IS NEEDED AS WELL AND I'M PRETTY SURE KATE WONT NEED HER BODY GUARD TO GO WITH HER AND JON SHOULD BE ABLE TO HANDLE IT WITHOUT TAKING ANY OF HIS SEX PARTNERS! ALTHOUGH HE HAS ENOUGH TO CHOOSE FROM! WHATS HE GOING FOR A DIFFERENT ONE FOR EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK?? WHICH ONE WILL GROW UP FIRST?? TO BE HONEST IT WILL PROBABLY BE THE KIDS!!!

I think you are right -- they could both use parenting classes. One is worse than the other in different way. But they are both really bad. I keep thinking of that nice little kid who wears his glasses on the end of his nose all the time, and how much he deserves a parent who isn't thinking of himself or herself all the time. Z

Julie thank you for a post. At the end of a week that has been a heck of a week in all areas of my life, I completely agree that the kids will grow up 1st.

And, even though the show such a mockery of what being a family is all about they are 8 awesome kids.

Irene - here is the link where I think she is wearing the mother of pearl - looks like its on her third finger - however Im certainly not a sauvy as the rest of you - so I certainly apologize in advance if Im mistaken.

http://www.examiner.com/x-29266-Atlanta-Celebrity-Headlines-Examiner~y2009m11d6-Kate-Gosselin-still-loves-Jon

Two thoughts.....

1. Kate needs more than just "parenting classes" She has some very deep seeded problems steming from her childhood - her entire value or moral system is completely wrong, her wanting to give the kids "bigger and better" to prove her love to them is very sad indeed; and she is giving her kids the idea that the world owes them a living; they are going to grow up very spoiled. She should be very concerned about the developmental problems at least two of the 6 kids are having. I have a little girl turning 5 and she is far more advanced then those kids.

2. Kate mentioned that the dogs were going to be coming "home" so they could pull the kids in the snow. Im sincerely hoping that the breeder will not return those dogs - they've been through enough and need some stability in their life.

Boy I am bad now I know which photos go with each show she has been on . Karen that is a photo of her from the Today show visit. I do not think that is the ring.
Kate would have had her buddy Natale cooing all over it. Probably slobbering....you know we are all jealous of her. That is why Kate keeps that bodyguard with her instead of the kids.

Karen: keep checking back we have more where all of this comes from.

Live, Love and write about a Gosselin.

About the dogs...

I really don't think it matters whether or not the breeder was listed with the German Shepherd Club or not. I'm not questioning his breed credentials, I'm questioning his dog sale ethics.

On this topic, I think what matters is the fact that he "sold" 2 puppies to a family that admittedly knew nothing about dogs and the wife had made it known a few times that she didn't even LIKE dogs.

Add to that the amount of small children in that family and that one child was afraid of dogs. ("will he eat me?".) And, yes, I'm aware that probably that little boy grew to enjoy the dog.

I don't care if the guy bred the ugliest mongrels. Every dog deserves to be treated kindly and should be protected from possible harm or neglect. He should not have let those 2 pups go home with that family.

And, if he did, he should have made a deal with TLC to build an outdoor kennel & run on those 24 acres and hire a trainer.

Mr Christopher told RadarOnline (of course!) that : "Kate is an orderly kind of person. She was never concerned about the dogs, she just wanted to train them and so this time with the dogs gives me extra time to train them. They're at the perfect age for training, but they're family dogs so their training won't be that advanced"

Hellooooo.. the dogs were 15 months old! NOW is the time to train them??? Haha. His statement has TLC written all over it.

I remember the "story" that he had met Kate at some event and mentioned that she should have dogs for security and that she should "call him" when she was ready. Of course, TLC managed the whole thing, I have no doubt. The guy probably made good money from the sale, probably even thought there would be more sales stemming from Kool Aid drinkers who wanted a "Gosselin dog".

Anyone wonder how many dogs he sold after fans saw that episode?

I know nothing about this man and sorry if anyone thinks I am picking on him unnecessarily, but this is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Another quote from ROL article regarding the return of the dogs:

"but Christopher told us that Jon "doesn't plan on breaking up the family, so nothing will be done that hurts the children."

Ummm..someone please pass a towel to Mr Christopher. He seems to have kool aid on his chin.

I have two words "who cares!" People have become so consumed with stars, whether its reality or actors. When did we forget about what we are doing with our own life? How are we making the world a better place?

Hi marieE,

IYou're right. I don't know if Jeffery Christopher did this for the money or for the fame because it was the Gosselin's or if he is just an honest guy that got pulled into the drama. I guess none of that does really matter you are right. What I am surprised about is that TLC did not seek out a legitimate breeder in the first place. They always get the biggest and best for Kate. They must have slipped up on this one. I guess we all just hope the dogs are in a good place. I wish I could have them!

Yes, Lisa I know it might seem like we go overboard. I will assure you I have 8 kids, a husband, 2 jobs, etc. I am trying to make the world a better place by watching everything Kate Gosselin does and do the opposite.

EX:
Kate: she wants a ring
Irene: I want my 2 year olds college fund paid off. $70 a payday.

Kate: She wants a paycheck
Irene: I earn my paycheck through my employer

Kate: She does everything for the sake of her kids i.e. Hires help for them etc
Irene: I take kids to school, band practice, cheerleading, college. I help with homework. I clean and make my own bed.

Kate: She wants a meal that costs $170
Irene: I want my grocery bill for this week to just be $170. Hey Kate, can I borrow a coupon?

I guess you get my drift.

Thanks for your post.

Reply to lisa...

Ummm...Speaking for myself, I never forget about my own life. Plus, I think I do plenty to make my world a better place.

But, please, let us enjoy our kvetching about these 2 idiots. Its rare when we get so much pleasure watching other people show how stupid and selfish they are in public.

Only thing.. we worry about the kids, other than that.. its FUN!

So, when you say "we", please leave me out of that group.

Thank you !

Kate is dead in her own selfishness. No one likes or cares about her. Tired of her lies and fake crying. Get off your lazy butt and stop begging for viewers or gifts or whatever and get a freaking job. I for one will not help pay for your maids, limo's, mani-pedi cures, designer cloths for you and the kids, food, housing, vacattions, spa days, nannies, groud keepers, pool keepers, new vehicles, exercise equipment, personal trainers, chefs, kids PRIVATE SCHOOLING, The stuff you want to give them on a GOLDEN PLATTER, the crap you want everyone to pay for while you sleep and the maids clean your house. Yea, right-Piss off Kate, your done! It is funny as hell to because you are just a mom that turned into a monster and money whore!

Carolina, Know It All...really, just ask me -

I totally agree with you on this. I don't think any of us would be here commenting if these two had been honest and forthright from the beginning. But the deeper you dig, the more you find out how much 'ugly' is buried. Researching these two is not that difficult and if we can find actual fact on the internet, a good investigative journalist can easily do the same and more.

I can't remember which (recent) interview it was that Kate gave in which she said SHE set up college fund accounts for the children...that she had the presence of mind to do so... that she was proud of herself ....and all that blather. She's given so many it makes your head spin. Anyway, I snipped a part of a post from this website:

http://internetservices.readingeagle.com/blog/mother/archives/2005/05/here_we_go_agai.html#comments

Lt. Governor Knoll Remarks
"Gosselin Six" Birthday Party
May 12, 2005

[I know that all parents think about these milestones, especially how they are going to provide their children with a college education. For Kate and Jonathan, I’m sure they think about this often.

That is why, for my gift to the Gosselin Family on this very special occasion, I am opening accounts for all eight of the Gosselin children through the Tuition Account Program, which I had a hand in creating when I served as Pennsylvania State Treasurer.

Contributions to these accounts will accrue throughout the children’s lives and be available to them once it comes time to attend college.

If you would like to make a contribution to the Gosselin Family’s TAP account, you can do so by making your check payable to “TAP 529,” writing “Gosselin” in the memo portion of the check, and sending your contributions to: Gosselin Sextuplets and Twins Accounts, TAP Bureau, 218 Finance Building, Harrisburg, PA 17120...]

My question is - does Kate think this generous gift from the governor would be forgotten by the good people of PA? I'm sure she could contribute to it, but why then would she say SHE set up the accounts? If she didn't, that's one doozy of a lie and she should be questioned on it.

To Lisa:

Unfortunately, I think if it weren't for the bloggers deconstructing the Gosselin story, TLC would have managed to scare, intimidate or bribe any real or potential threat to their scam of exploiting young children for monetary gain under the guise of wholesome family entertainment.

While there is a lot of repetitious snarking and relatively meaningless comments pitting Team Kate vs Team Jon on the blogs, the real issue here is the exploitation of children by corporate media for financial profit.

It seems to me this is a near criminal activity and viewers are complicit in the covert exploitation and abuse of children whose parents choose not to protect them.

The Gosselin kids are stuck with the parents they have, as are all children with emotionally immature parents. But encouraging that dysfunction and playing it out intentionally on national TV in exchange for money and perks has to be recognized as harmful and exploitative.

Go, bloggers, go.

I think the Duggars are getting a 'pass' with the child exploitation issue. ( I only mention them because that is the only other family I watch).

Jim Bob said recently they film a little less than the average family watches tv in a week--well, that is a LOT of filming!!

I think they get a pass because they are nice, humble, giving, and don't live beyond their means(besides the parents not being totally tabloid fodder).

They still exploit their children for money. It isn't fair to say one family's exposing their minor children to reality tv is right and another is wrong.

How much money do you think the Duggars have put aside for THEIR kids?? My guess is ZERO.

(If they had, I would have thought the oldest kids would have pursued higher education).

NO CHILDREN SHOULD BE ON REALITY SHOWS. PERIOD.

OK, so the next show is 'viewers favorite' episodes? It seems hard to believe that there would be a 'favorite'. How about choosing the one I unliked the most leastish? Hey Lisa, how is Kate improving the world?
And Irene: I think you are being perfectishly nice today (oh, but I'm judging you by how I am, and that's not always too nice either. Oh well, let's just be not so nice together then)

Should we have some kind of poll on the "favorite" episodes of commenters at this blog. Somehow I don't think TLC will be including those? Let me know what you think? Thanks. Z

Aggie the part I agree with you is there should be regulation when kids are involved on Reality shows.

I think the interesting compelling story of the Duggars is they believe strongly their children should not watch TV. In one episode the kids are even seen getting what is equilavent to a 13 inch television out of an armoir Mama Duggar has. It does make you wonder why they think they should be on tv when they do not regularly even watch Television.

My relative gave birth and raised 17 awesome kids. She monitored everything watched in the house and only had 1 television. We had a discussion once about the show 'Good Times" My mom let me watch that, Aunt Pat did not let her kids. She said that the show modeled "sarcasm and disrespect" and she did not believe it was healthy for her kids to see. In other words, my Aunt Pat lived her convictions. So many people these days do not live their convictions. They blur the lines to fit their agenda. The Duggars are blurring it because it is providing an income to their home. Makes you wonder is all.

I have a funny feeling when it is all said and done. Laws are gonna be passed that stem from where the Gosselin children have been (over 100 episodes in 2 1/2 years) Tlc is really not doing themselves any favors right now. I feel like Kate and TLC are not seeing the forest for the trees.

Reply to aggie mom..

Your comment about the Duggars is rather contradictory, I think.

You start off by staying they are humble, giving and don't live beyond their means. You say they get a "pass" because the parents aren't tabloid fodder.

I think you answered your own question in that statement and should have stopped there.

Then you segue into the fact that they are exploiting their children and probably haven't put any money away for those children.

So, which is it? Are they good parents or on the same plateau as the Gosselins?

You say the "proof" that they haven't saved for the chiildren is that the oldest haven't pursued higher education. Well, having a college diploma doesn't necessarily mean you are a better person or even a more successful or smarter person. A further education is a personal choice.

The Duggars live a totally different lifestyle than all or most of us who blog here. The mother homeschools all the children and each child is taught skills that make them successful in the life they lead. The eldest boy owns and operates a used car business and I believe an online business. And, he and his wife visit other families and churches to share their religious beliefs.

I think all of that makes them wonderful contributors to this society.

This family shops for clothing and shoes in used clothing stores and buys food in bulk. They don't have closets full of matching outfits, matter of fact, they don't have closets! All the clothing is separated into boys/girls and sizes in a huge laundry room, organized by the parents.
Everyone picks out what they want to wear. They designed and handbuilt their own home for 2 years before realizing they needed professional help. Even the girls and little kids were drilling holes and cutting wallboards. The boys and girls all learn how to cook. They even make their own soap!

The entire family helps neighbors and family.

The family owns rental property and used car dealerships and I believe they rent out construction machines and vehicles, which they have bought at auction and refurbished. They bought their family bus at an auction and did all the customizing themselves. The Gosselins "wished" for a large family van and it was donated.

When Mr & Mrs Duggar had their "vow renewals" like the Gosselins did (must be a TLC thing?) they decorated a church building and made the food themselves. The pregnant mother was in the middle of all the decorating, standing on stepstools and helping the other kids get ready. They were surrounded by loved ones. They didn't fly off to Hawaii and have "family" guests that they didn't even know! ANd, they didn't make promises to their children that they would be together "forever" and then ditch each other in a month.

The Duggar children comment on how much their parents love each other and are kissing all the time.

The Duggars show brings them EXTRA money, its not their ONLY income as it is for Gosselins.

For you to say the Duggars are putting ZERO money away for their children is really presumptive statement.

While I find the Duggars lifestyle nothing I would have for myself, I admire them. I certainly hope they are enjoying the extra money their show brings to the family. I have a feeling they are donating and sharing their new largess with others.

You know, just like the Gosselins do.

Z I am game for anything that helps us poke holes in the
channel that has now become
"Telling Lies Channel"

We need something to get us through the next few weeks before a hiatus that is long overdue.

You ask it of us....we will surely reply back. ALL for one and one for all!

Remember everyone Bloggers that blog together get to the bottom of it together!

The Gosselins have scraped so far below the bottom of their barrel, if we go check it out we may never be seen again. If those two get back together, it would appear to be so the show could continue. Why do they think anyone would want to watch them any more? I've said it before, at the start, the kids were adorable, Kate and Jon were fun; NOW? Not so much! Actually, NOT AT ALL. The kids have outgrown 'cute', Jon being a 'lame fish' (to copy Kate, I've never heard that before) and Kate, well, Kate just has NOTHING to offer in ANY area. I wish she would see that there is a problem and check into getting some help for it. She has 'self' diagnosed herself as OCD (but isn't consistent in 'acting' it out). I'm sure the dictionary has her picture under narcissist but she probably doesn't know how to spell it so won't be looking it up. The really sad thing is that a 'calling' for her doesn't seem to present itself in her field, to be a good nurse, you need compassion and interest in people and none has been shown in the 5 seasons on television. It's funny, when Jon referred to something as having happened in a certain season, she screamed at him that they don't measure their life in seasons. Now that the show could be ending, she seems to feel that 5 seasons sounds like a lot more television experience than 2 1/2 years. Either way you say it, the experience has not prepared her for a further career in 'the Business'.

I can't seem to get an answer to this question. The accusation about Kate and Jon is that they exploit the kids for fame and money. Why doesn't the Duggers, and other shows with children on them, get accused of the same thing? On the Duggers, for exxample, couldn't it be said that they are irresponsible in having so many children?

Several commenters here have answered this is recent days. Check through the comments. Hopefully, the commenter/blogger who took this on will help Maragret out here. Was it Irene? I remember one of the answers was particularly thorough,. Thanks. Z

You say that I have made too many comments. Not true. This is the first ever comment I have made.

Who said you made too many comments? I didn't. If you clicked on the submit button too many times ina row, the software might have sent such a message trying to block a spammer. Just click the button once. Z

Margaret Walker -

I do remember because I watched the Duggars quite a bit that her own sister and father said that they questioned whether or not Michelle should have so many children. Her father thought maybe not, but he has decidedd to give in and her sister said that she saw that they seemded to be able to handle he children and they seemed well mannered and they are supporting them. They actually have properties that they rent out and a towing business, so they are not in debt. Hope this helps.

Marie E.,

Calm down. I do not know if they put aside money for the kids, I just assume they have not. Apparently you love the Duggars, and that is certainly in your rights to do so.

There is nothing wrong with higher education, it certainly is not a hindrance, whereas not having a degree is.

I have only seen a few of the Duggar shows, so I am in no way an expert about what they do.

As far as being a hypocrite, the Duggars say tv is bad, yet they are on it. That is a good one!!! LOL!!!

No, I am just questioning MYSELF, on why I think it is okay for me to watch one show and scream exploitation, and watch another one the next night, and say 'oh how sweet they are'.

I think people scream exploitation regarding the Gosselin's because Kate is a very unlikeable person. The Duggars on the other hand, seem to be very nice people.

It just doesn't seem fair to say one family exploits where another one doesn't.

Please don't attack me for having an opinion.

Anonymous,

I am sure marieE can stand up for herself. I know the answer to the Duggar they don't have TV, but they are on TV. They answered this question on the Today Show. They said that they were interesting in showing how people can raise a large family and make it work today and this is their purpose in being on television. They were self-sufficient before the TV show and still have two businesses.

Please don't attack me for having an opinion either.

Wow I have to get something done. Will be back later. My kids have a play-off game tonight.

Hi Sherry, Enjoy the playoff. I am going to screen "anonymous" posts so that no one gets agitated by folks unwilling to sign their names. Z

Anonymous most certainly all comments are welcome at this site because Z runs the best blog on the web. He reads each post before it is seen by us, he participates with us and helps us to expose both sides of a story. That is why I blog here.

The Duggars & Gosselins both after all that has transpired have made me think twice about the role of children in reality shows.

The Duggars do not get as much backlash because they are honest. And, although they are filmed and shown on the TELLING LIES CHANNEL, they are not as controversial. They have used their show as a platform to help their friends expand their house, took in their grandfather as he died, shared some of their beliefs in dating/marriage, etc.

The Gosselins have been exposed for the hypocrisy & all out lies they have told all in the name of seeking fame & money through the TELLING LIES CHANNEL.

I think that laws need to be made, and regulations to protect childrens well being, financial compensation, and much much more. Because corporations like TLC & parents like the Gosselins show us they will not put the best interests of the children 1st. Ever heard the saying, "One rotten apple spoils the whole bunch? That is my opionion of the TELLING LIES CHANNEL & Jon & Kate Gosselin.

Reply to Aggie/Anonymous

Aggie.. I certainly don't think I "attacked" you. You asked an open question about why the Duggars weren't thought of as exploiting their children, the same way we view the Gosselins.

I thought my reply to you was pretty cohesive, at least, to MY thoughts of the families' comparisons.

I ask you.. why would you "assume" the Duggars had not put money away? You say you have only watched a few episodes, so how does that result in your assumption?

I don't see how being on a tv show and not watching tv shows is hypocritical. They have given their explanation of not wanting their children to be subject to the sexual influences in many tv shows. They feel there are many other things to do with their time than watch tv. That is a parental right, the same as when we make decisions regarding our own children's upbringing.

I believe they have a tv in the house and watch certain educational programs, and probably their own show is one of them too. Don't hold me to that, but I think they said that in an interview.

I don't think we "scream exploitation" because Kate is an unlikeable person. I speak for myself when I say that I feel the children are being exploited due to the fact that the parents (mostly mother) have tossed their children into a messy divorce being played out on magazine covers and tv interviews.

They have apparently shown their children that its okay to lie and deceive, since they continued to portray themselves as a happy family when, in fact, they were in the throes of an animosity filled separation. They have admitted they couldn't even stand to speak or sit near the other, yet they filmed themselves with their kids as if they were one big happy family. Don't you think those kids heard their parents arguing? Then, cameras roll and look.. "we are a happy family". I would say.. color those kids confused.

As for the higher education thing... did I say its a "hindrance"? Did I say its not valuable? NO.. I said it is not for everyone and it doesn't define who a person is, especially if that person is leading a respectable & productive life.

Finally, another asssumption you made is that I "love" the Duggars. Did I say that? No, I said I admire them. I also said their lifestyle is certainly not to my liking, but they are a happy well-adjusted family who share part of their lives with the public.

Why question yourself on why you watch the 2 shows and find one exploitative and the other "how sweet they are". That is a judgement call and you made it for yourself. Just as I and most of the bloggers here have done.

The answer is simple. One IS exploitative and the other is IS NOT.

Simple as comparing apples to oranges.

So, Aggie, why not re-read my previous reply to you. I do not need to "calm down" since I wasn't NOT calm. I simply replied to your post, which, for some reason, you regarded as an "attack" towards you.

See? People see things differently.

Reply to Margaret Whitaker...

Margaret, why do you feel the Duggars are irresponsible in having so many children?

Have they asked anyone for money to raise their kids? Have they told lies to get money? Have they taken money from the government (medicaid, etc) to subsidize their household? Have they asked donatons for any of their children? Have they turned away donated items because they simply "did not match?"

Are they parents who scream and belittle their children? Each child is loved and wanted and made to feel that way.

The only time I feel parents are being irresponsible in having children is if those parents assume the public & government should help pay for those kid's medical bills and upbringing. Of course, this doesn't only relate to tv shows, but that's another blog. haha.

Other than that, why should we care how many children anyone has? Its really not our business.

Sorry Z and Anonymous,

I did not mean that post to sound agitated. That was not my intent. I was just trying to explain what I had heard on the Today Show about what the Duggar's said about the reason they were on TV and did not have a TV. Didn't mean to come acoss as a sarcastic remark.

Z....the previous post was mine, I signed in my name, but it went through as anonymous.

I in no way want to agitate...I have watched the J'kate fiasco for almost a year, and the Duggars for only a few months. I am questioning MYSELF in why I think it is okay for the Duggars to film their kids, and not for the Gosselins.
The whole thing makes me scratch my head!!

Also, I find it interesting that the 'octomom', can have children she clearly could not afford, and she is vilified...isn't that the gosselin's did?? I think j and kate were accepted in the beginning because of their race, their religion, and they were married.

Years from now, all of this will make an interesting socialogical study.

With all of these children involved in reality shows for the masses amusement, I am questioning MY involvement, and why I watch.

Anyway, to all have a nice day! I am at a crossroads with my convictions....

Marie E, you are my hero! You say everything that I think, but you say more, and you say it better! The Gosselin debacle has gone on way too long. Thank you for your insights.

To Anonymous @ 3:52 PM. I hope you will decide to stay and post under a name other than Anonymous. Z does a very good job of monitoring this blog to make sure commenters are civil and respectful to one another, even when we disagree.

I don’t want people who disagree with the majority to stop posting here. I very much like to hear a wide variety of opinions, because those opinions provide insight that, even though different, should not be excluded. It provides opportunities for discussion and debate. I like trying to find out WHY someone believes something different than I do.

Now, to try to answer your question about the Duggars: For me, it all has to do with motive. From all the evidence (circumstantial and otherwise), comments/statements, and behavior from the Gosselin parents, I believe they INTENDED to use their children for financial gain. I don’t think anyone could argue that those 8 children are not working to support their parents. The children are also being used on a daily basis to maintain money and fame (infamy would be a better word) for the parents. That is clear exploitation. I also firmly believe that the Gosselin parents are neglectful, and they put their own selfish needs and desires above those of their children.

While I do believe that the Duggars are exploiting their unique situation and their beliefs concerning procreation, I do not think they are doing it primarily for the money because the show is not their only source of income. The same can be said of the Little People, Big World family. Unlike the Gosselins, neither of those families ever gave up their primary source of income in exchange for a sole income coming from their reality show. They also do not constantly parade their children in front of cameras, and they seem to understand that there are many family situations that need to remain private. I am sure both these families have experienced many difficult situations/events, as all families do, but again, unlike the Gosselins, as far as I know they have not tried to use those events to gain further money or celebrity.

Regardless of which reality show we are talking about, I firmly believe that there must be laws passed to safeguard every child in ANY show. I personally believe that filming the daily life of any child will, ultimately, have long-lasting negative effects. We just won’t know how negative those effects could be until studies are done years from now.

I have said my share of peace today.

I know one thing this is gonna get much uglier. It is ashame I blog because I like to and want to. I was a fan of this show and invested alot of time in it. There are commentators making comments that are laughable at whose side they are on~~~some will defend the indefensible just for the sake of Public Relations.
Hmmm...Oh well, as long as the kids are never filmed again I feel my position is not in vain. It must really chap a certain corporations behind that a weasle of a dad could shut them down...right in their tracks.

At last, an intelligent discussion on this subject on a blog!
Frankly, I'm surprised Jon took Kate's orders, put-downs and verbal abuse as long as he did. Few, if any, relationships could survive that and it's the part of the show that turned me off the most. I'm hoping the figurative wicked witch's TV rantings (and ratings) may soon be dead.
I don't believe for a moment that Kate could make a go of a show alone. First, I've never seen proof that she's capable of talking about any subject other than herself - and who'd want to watch that? Second, it was first and foremost the adorableness of those kids that drew the viewers. Without them, where's the appeal? It's certainly not Kate - or Jon.

As to making future money to support the kids, don't forget about all those re$iduals for the rerun$ from five season$ of taping the show.
Blogger Chrysee suggested we could donate to the children's TAP account. Oh, please! Aren't there far, far more deserving charities and people who suffer misfortune to help? I'm sure we each could name hundreds! Including a few who never lived in a mansion on forty-some acres.
In fact, I think TLC should immediately replace J&K+8 with a show we could all get behind - people doing good for others less fortunate.

Z, marieE, aggiemom, anonymous,

Sounds like there was a mix-up over the Duggar family. Hope everyone is okay. I really didn't mean to offend anyone. I think that everyone has some great contributions and I enjoy all the posts and Z writing back to us and keeping in the game with us on this. Hope everyone is okay.

I think I got up on the wrong side of the bed today anyway, my dog and my kids and my husband are mad at me.

Anyway, did enjoy some of the play-offs, it will be late when I pick the kids up. I can't hold out that long.

I like the idea of Kate plus 8. I think she is doing what is best for her and the kids. Jon is just a big kid that hasn't grown up so why is ANYONE listening to him ? Keep your head up Kate and do what is best for you and kids.We Love you!

This is probably old news, but I felt no sympathy for Kate when she complained about a trip to NYC being canceled after Jon stopped the filming of J&K+8. Poor Kate. She could pay for the trip like the rest of us, instead of "depriving" her kids of that opportunity.

WRT one show exploiting kids vs one that doesn't, how many people felt the Gosselin kids were exploited the first 4 seasons? The exploitation began after Jon and Kate's separation. At that point, filming should have stopped to allow the family privacy to handle their situation.

I'm confused by Kate's concern for her children, when she spends so much time away from them. Why was "her story" filmed in LA, 3000 miles away from her children. She should have insisted the filming take place close to home, minimizing her time away from them.

Someone said it best, watching these people is like watching a train wreck, which will hopefully end sooner rather than later.

Debi, Debi, Debi - "Blogger Chrysee suggested we donate to the childrens TAP account" Good grief. Go back and read the post again, dear. It was a snip from a letter written in 2005 by Lt. Governor Knolls.

The intent of the post was to point out how easy it is to catch Kate in her lies.

As far as your suggestion that "TLC replace J&K+8 with a show we could all get behind - people doing good for others less fortunate" I don't believe TLC is capable of doing anything "charitable". If you think TLC is worth watching, go ahead and support them but I will never ever again tune into that POS channel for any reason.

I like Kate and would like to see her get her own show. She works very hard. He plays very hard.

So she treated Jon badly...hello...how would you treat a guy like him? He never seemed to be willing to do anything on his own initiative and he was moody most of the time.

So she's addicted to fame...hello...she's got eight kids to raise, you try to do that on a nurse's salary.

Don't criticize her...put yourself in her place and walk a mile in her shoes...

I can't stand Kate or Jon at this point, When the show first started I was rooting for them, back when their children were babies and they were normal people. Now I'm disgusted by what they are doing to their children.

I know my parents divorce was very hard on my brother and I. We were confused, hurt, angry, sad, and scared. It took my brother and I a long time to adjust to it, and my parents had a very clean cut, well handled divorce. So I can only imagine how messed up Jon and Kate's kids are with this cluster @%$# of a divorce. God help the poor kids if their parents decide to get back together. That will really mess them up.

It's sad but I can see Jon and Kate going to extreme lengths to stay in the spot light. I can honestly see Jon and Kate going on the Surreal Life if it means they will get to cling to their pointless fame.

After the Jon and Kate mess, I don't think kids need to be on TV, although it does seem that the other shows do have lives and means of income outside the tv shows, and I don't believe any of the others were using thier kids for money and gifts since the day they were born. Thats a major difference. Also, those Gosselin kids arent going to know the difference between what was real and what was for the show. I read where after the "split" they showed Kate leaving for Jons visit for fliming and then she goes back to the house. That is sickening to me for the kids to go through that.

Chrysee,

I got it. I like your sense of humor on the blog. And, I am so literal that I can't believe I got it. This is a good thing, there is still hope for me.

Gina, we love Kate about as much as she loved that blankie that got gum on it!

Glad someone is on her side. My guess is someone needs to you know she can only trust a small group of people as shown here by the number of blogs behind her.

Sherry T. thanks, lol - imagine me asking people to donate to the Gosselin college fund. Next I'll be Kate's BFF.

Note to Debi:
That was a joke.

Chrysee,

It was funny. The kids college money is safe, you know that right?

I seriously hope it is too. I am not sure how we are going to put two kids through college, we only have a year of tuiton saved for each one so far. The Ohio pre-paid tuiton fund no longer exists.

Z, your blog is the best! It's interesting to read the "supporters" of Kate contributing here. My mind is still made up. I will continue to describe the Gosselin parents as "talentless grifters." Best wishes to the 8 children.

I am with you on the parents -- and the kids. Z

I totally agree with Molly and loved her words about J&K's "pointless fame." That's so true. And when we all stop watching them and reading about them, the media will stop covering them. Sadly, it's hard to turn away from a developing train wreck saga where we wait to see who'll survive.

Note to Chrysee - my fault. I read that post way too fast. Sorry.

Reply to GINA.. (9:11 pm)

You say Kate is doing what is best for her children and you encourage her to continue.

Please tell us just WHAT she is doing that is the best?

Thank you

Sherry T - Not only safe, but secure AND substantial. At least that's what her royal heinous High Road Kate has declared. Who knows.

Debi- no harm done : )

I hear comments of "put yourself in her shoes' even from her. First off I think most of us as parents have thought about that and thats where the anger comes from, we would NEVER do what she has done to our kids for any amount of money. Put yourself in her shoes? when on earth did it become ok to lie, belittle your husband, take advantage of people, act so greedy and narcassistic, for any reason. There is no situation that would make a person exploit her children, her doomed marriage and keep talking publically about it. There is no excuse for any of her actions and contradictions. Not to mention cutting our her family from her childrens lives and anyone who doesnt agree with her stupidity. This isn't about judging someone else, its about pointing out the wrongs of this situation and we are supposed to, otherwise it continues. Same goes for TLC, they should be exposed. There is no shame in making money honestly, but not by destroying people and little innocent childrens emotional well being. Thats the problem in America today, there is an excuse for EVERYTHING. Its one thing to make a mistake but fix it and dont continue like Jon and Kate and TLC are doing. This thing could go on for years with lawsuits. Its disgusting.

kad,
So well said!! I wish I could write like that. As a parent too I second everything you just said. And, I have to remember my teens are not adults yet, they don't think like an adult yet. So be patient and throw in heaping doses of extra LOVE. I hope Kate gets the point before it is too late. One day she will have teenagers and she will have eight of them.

kad, nicely said. We can imagine what it's like to be in her shoes without actually being there. That's called empathy. The fact that Kate believes she's doing "what's best for her kids" is scary. She needs to do what's right, but she doesn't seem to understand what that is.

Jon really blew it. Before his shenanigans, he had the public on his side. Too bad he didn't realize how badly his actions would backfire.

Marie, Sherrie......thanks for your comments...! It would be interesting to have a real conversation in person, since I think sometimes meanings get lost when reading the written word. I think we all are coming from the same place, so to speak, only I am fairly new to this whole sordid mess, and I am just thoroughly confused!!!

Never for one second would I want to agitate others.

Z..found your blog a few weeks ago..very interesting! Hope you don't see me as a troublemaker.

As I said, I am having a moral dilemma in regard to my initial belief that is was 'horrible' for the g's to exploit their kids, yet 'okay' for the Duggars..I guess when Jim Bob said they filmed a little less a week than the average family watches tv I didn't realize just how much the Duggar kids 'work' for the show.

Many have questioned how much money has been set aside for the G children, which kate says is 'safe'..she never states a dollar amount, so it could be a paltry amount at best. So that made me question 'how much have the Duggars set aside for the kids?" No one seems to be asking the harsh questions of the Duggars, and why is that?

Even if the Duggars don't use the show as the primary source of income, it is still income. I wish the older kids had the opportunity for higher education, if that is what they desire.

I believe that Michelle said they did the show to help others understand the dynamics and challenges of raising a large family, but I have to question their motives for doing a weekly show(a few specials would have sufficed).

Also, TLC seems to be making them a mirror show of the Gosselins...trips, freebies, weddings, wedding gowns, and so on...I hope the Duggars had sound legal advice before signing their contract.

For those that say Jon is a loser, uh....NO. He is the one that bathed those kids all those years (Kate is the on tape saying that was his job)...he stayed home for a few years raising them...when kate was with them in the early years, she had help and lots of it. Jon is the affectionate parent, the one that plays with them. Kate is cold, makes fun of her kids, and says she doesn't have time to play with her kids. And don't forget the marathon naps!!

And to those that say she can't afford to support 8 kids on a nurse's salary? Well, they clearly couldn't afford the twins on their salaries, so why have more? That was a selfish desire on her part.

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent.

aggiemom,

Thanks. I can see many of your points. It would be interesting to have a converasation in person if that were only possible.

I did watch the Duggar's quite a bit. I watched Jon and Kate from the beginning. Have also watched Little People Big World and the Hayes family a little. I think we all had a fondness for Jon and Kate when they were a struggling family and you are right somewhere along the line they changed. The show just fell apart and things that should have been private became very public.

I see your point about exploitation and I see the dilemma. I guess only the Duggar's can decide how they feel about this and having their children on television. This family seems to have a little more integrity. I would hope that they would not exploit their children in the way that the Gosselin's have by playing out a very public divorce in front of cameras. I think this is where it started to fall apart and the show should have been canceled.

I do agree though there is a certain point that both of these families have let their children be filmed for money. But, this also has been going on well before "reality shows" existed. Look at all of the child actors on shows through the years, Andy Griffith, Leave It to Beaver etc.

Good points aggiemom. No I certainly do not think any of us were agitating or wish to be so. I am so glad that Z lets us all express our opinons and does not edit, except in the cases of being un-civil or coarse speech, which is why I appreciate this blog SO MUCH!!

couple of things, 'put yourself in her shoes' is one of my pets, 'SHE hasn't actually walked in her shoes', so why should we? Since Kate had Jon send the dogs back to the trainer, could WE have Jon send Kate back to her parents? Oh thats right, they probably wouldn't take her. and then a question, has a review been written on her latest Kate's Wonderful Narrative of Old Clips of Terrible Story Lines (the Viewer's Choices)? I'm sure we'll all want to comment on that torture.

I think Kates head got so big she thought she could kick Jon to the curb and collect more money and attention for herself. It staggers me that she thought after mistreating him so much he would continue to give his permission for her to make money and not him. I find her very manipulating and downright mean. She emotionally abuses the kids as well by holding their happiness over their head with cameras. Tlc needs to cut the cord. Shes not going to be worth it and their name goes down with her. Neither of them have any class, they are blinded by their own lies.