When I think Amish, I think "puppy mills". Guess it fits with factory farming too.

The old ways aren't always the best ways, but this doesn't seem like an "old" way, unless it's "retro".

I quit buying bacon at the Dutch Market on York Road when I saw a young lady tearing open packages of bacon and lining up the slices in a tray. I do like their ground beef and chipped beef.

EL, Perhaps you might report your experience to Maryland's consumer protection division. IMO this borders on fraud.

People here are duped by anything with an 'Amish' notation. Wake up. Same applies to a certain little local ma and pa fruit stand where the fruits/vegs occasionally still have the little sticky scan tags still on.

The fact that Meat Guy let you take his picture should have been your first hint that things weren't as they seemed.

The mix-up by the Meat Guy sounds like an honest mistake to me. Unless it can be proven that other vendors in the market are misrepresenting the provenance of the food they're selling, I don't see where the fraud is.

It's unfair to imply that people lack integrity just because they don't conform to your stereotypical views of them.

My point isn't that the Amish HAVE to offer traditional foods, but that many people will assume that an Amish market sells products from Amish country. What's special about buying factory-farmed beef from an Amish market? LV

well ... shut my mouth...

Sorry, Laura Lee, but I disagree. The Amish dine out (no pun intended) on a reputation for simplicity, honesty and integrity. When you go to an Amish market, you expect something home-grown or nurtured, not a repackaged version of what you could have picked up at Safeway or Giant.

and THAT's why it's stupid to call it an AMISH market. Duh. Stop calling these Amish markets and your self-inflicted confusion will stop. Why do you assume that a guy with a funny beard and a straw hat and a CELL PHONE is Amish? Calling it a Dutch market makes more sense. It covers a wealth of varieties.

I call it an Amish market because the vendors say they're Amish and describe the market as Amish. LV

I really only visit the Amish Market in Cockeysville and I've always wondered about the provenance of the products they sell. To my eye, that fried chicken looks too big and too much like Purdue to be free-range. And the candies and flours in the heat-sealed bags look too much like commercial product placed into heat-sealed plastic bags for me.

Then the baked goods look like any other commercial bakery. Not to mention watching some of these operations and their speed, efficiency and modernism just smacks of commercial volume.

But I have to admit that, in spite of my misgivings, I do enjoy the fried chicken and red beet eggs at the Amish Market - even if they're commercially processed.

An Amish Market in Cherry Hill...that's a heck of a commute in a horse and buggy.

This is good reporting and It is deceptive marketing. I hope you'll put it in the paper. I wonder what the real Amish people would say. Would the Sun pay your way to Lancaster to talk to people you can't call?

Headline: Horses and bungles

You know, I honestly have to say....... a bunch of you had it coming to you.

I've LONG known that a LOT of what's at the "Pennsylvania Dutch" markets wasn't as it might have appeared. It's ALWAYS been easy to tell the freshly-made cookies, pies, etc. from those made in a commercial bakery in Fells Point. It's ALWAYS been painfully obvious which produce is freshly-picked versus what came through the wholesale market in Jessup. It's ALWAYS been obvious what cheeses and meats came from commercial warehouses and which came from "home" farms. Well, it's always been painfully obvious if you had the first danged CLUE about food!

Is there anyone out there that sincerely thinks that every bit of food that comes out of "Little Italy" is cooked by Italian-speaking immigrants? Do you think every bit of food you see at a farmer's market--even the big ones under the JFX and in Waverly--is actually hand-picked at a local farm or is hand-fished/butchered/etc., when at least a few boxes of bananas and citrus show up from Florida and California every week? Is there anyone that thinks everyone that works at an establishment on Corned Beef Row is Jewish? Does anyone out there really think that all Wisconsin or Vermont cheese comes from milk from happy, pasture-grazing cows? Does everyone think all Ben & Jerry's ice cream comes from some hippie commune? Do you really think all the crab at the Rusty Scupper and Phillips Seafood comes from the Chesapeake bay? Does anyone think all Guinness comes from St. James' Gate in Dublin? (No---it's brewed in 45 countries, at last report!)

Seriously, I don't wish to mock the intelligence or gullibility of others, but it seems to this hardened skeptic and former Amish-country resident (who, for the record, used to be a restaurant cook and manager years ago) that if you sincerely believed that the stuff in a "Pennsylvania Dutch" market was by sheer location of its sales and name on the market "better" for you/organic/natural/whatever, then you probably think Mickey Mouse personally owns and lives in Disney World--and furthermore, has done anything to justify his existence besides wave at people there since, oh, 1970 or so.

This is NOT a blanket condemnation of the vendors at all "Pa. Dutch" markets. I have seen organic produce and goods at the markets, labeled as such. Some goods are obviously prepared on site or freshly made. But "Caveat Emptor" applies just as much in a Dutch market as it does in the supermarket or the upscale restaurant.

Mickey Mouse doesn't own or live at Disney World? This is all just too much to "process".

This is some of the best food reporting you'll ever see. The CitiPeeks, Chowhounds, WhatstoEats, and "Examiners" would have been all to happy to take their freebie products home and write a sweetheart review. LV didn't go looking for trouble or problems with the market. However, she's smart, persistent and observant enough to ask real questions to her interview subjects. She also actually fact-checks, something professionals (as opposed to bloggers) are required to do Bravo!

Alexander D. Mitchell IV, castigating people who accept the Amish or Pennsyvania Dutch mystique as simpletons (not your word but that's the implication) isn't as simple as it sounds. There are certain designations that have built a reputation over the years, sometimes over centuries. We assume that French champagne has not been shipped from South Africa and given an extra shot of fizz. We believe that Swiss banks are protective of our funds. And while Wisconson cheddar may not come from happy cows, it doesn't come from a processing plant on the outskirts of Secaucus, New Jersey. That is why the term Amish and the trappings of the Amish culture strike a responsive chord with a good many people. And if those trappings are a front for repackaging and selling standard commercial foodstuff, it's understandable that those without your culinary background are apt to be conned -- and ticked off.

Agree with CantonDiner.

In my previous comment I made careless use of the word "your", which was not directed at LV, or indeed anyone in particular. The article covered many questions which I would want answered about the operations of the Amish Market. The remarks by Erik Wesner were especially illuminating.

We search for the authentic and are so often disappointed. As ADM IV points out, the reality frequently conflicts with our expectations and fantasies.

Last night I made a Sour Cream Coffee Cake. It was authentic.

Very interesting discussion, I can see both sides here. I do think that one thing worth mentioning is that we can take things to extremes in what we expect. Just because an Amish person sells it doesn't mean it is Amish-made, nor should we necessarily assume it to be--unless that is how it is explicitly advertised.

For instance, at, say, an Amish-run sandwich shop--is the ketchup they use produced by Amish? What about the relish? Do Amish grow and grind the coffee they serve to go with their sandwiches? And if not, is that "okay"?

It's one thing if an individual vendor explicitly promotes his product as having a certain origin. But the Amish aren't responsible for the assumptions we make about them. I think you'll find a variety of products sold by Amish vendors--and this point has been made above--some "fitting the bill" of our assumptions, others not.

People visit these markets both for the appeal of the products--many of which are high quality, and a number of which are actually Amish-produced--as well as for the experience of interacting with Amish people.

Erik Wesner

The most interesting this about all of this is an article in today's New York Times about how the Amish farmers are killing the Chesapeake Bay because of the amount of chemicals they use in their farming. Article is HERE.

One of my favorite band names ever:
http://b7.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00334/79/50/334500597_m.jpg

There are various degrees of deception. Selling beef produced by a large processor in an Amish market and claiming it is grass fed, is not even on the same scale as Attman's hiring a Christian dishwasher or Ben and Jerry's being produced in a factory.

I think Amish-gate reinforces the concept of buyer beware.

John F Martin meats are still the best.

We have to remember that little of what is published or promoted about Amish is in fact done so by an Amish person. Even if it is, there is no central Amish Authority or brand management. Every Amish person chooses to practice their religion and conduct their business by their own conscience.

My great grandfather was Amish, was and wore a necktie and dressed quite fashionably for his time, so I know that not all Amish are like the illustrations in the books.

To be fair, federal hal, hiring a Christian dishwasher would be a legal requirement, as you cannot discriminate against someone for their religion. So no, that's on a completely different level.

enjoy what you cannot make for yourself .plainlycovered

What's so special about buying conventional products from an Amish market? The higher prices, of course. Saw a sign last weekend at the Amish market on York road selling "Lancaster County Tomatoes" I have a hard time believing that. Still, the roasted chickens are the best in town.

In high school, I had a wrap-around beard sans mustache. People thought I was Amish. I wasn't.

MINDFREAK!

To all of you out there.......The Amish markets are called "Amish Markets" because they have REAL amish people working in them. They don't have all natural or organic things. You guys just assume they do because they are Amish. Yes, it is a far ride for a horse and buggy to go to Cherry Hill from Lancaster County. That's why they carpool in a 15 passenger van with a driver that is not Amish. Take a look in the parking lots sometime. You will see about 6 or so vans in it. As far as the bacon....did you expect them to bring a live pig to the market and cut it open right there??? They have to store it somewhere to bring it into work!!! As for the tomatoes....do you think they cannot grow in a garden? I have plants in my back yard and they produce lots of tomatoes, they can grow in PA you know! You people are ridiculous!!! I'm not going to go to a chinese restaurant and claim that the people are not chinese! I'm not going to go to a Catholic church and claim that the people there are not Catholic. The times and generations are always changing. You don't live your life like your parents lived theres. You don't still watch your TV in black and white. So yes, some Amish people do have cell phones, what's the big deal? Are they not allowed to modernize their lives just as you have done? You try and make a meal with ONLY organic and homegrown things. It's not that easy!!! My point is.......Amish are only human and people need to STOP picking them apart for these stupid things. At least they make their own meals (weather it be organic or not) instead of going out and eating fast food all the time just because they are too lazy to make it themselves. This is just stupid!!!!!

To all of you out there.......The Amish markets are called "Amish Markets" because they have REAL amish people working in them. They don't have all natural or organic things. You guys just assume they do because they are Amish. Yes, it is a far ride for a horse and buggy to go to Cherry Hill from Lancaster County. That's why they carpool in a 15 passenger van with a driver that is not Amish. Take a look in the parking lots sometime. You will see about 6 or so vans in it. As far as the bacon....did you expect them to bring a live pig to the market and cut it open right there??? They have to store it somewhere to bring it into work!!! As for the tomatoes....do you think they cannot grow in a garden? I have plants in my back yard and they produce lots of tomatoes, they can grow in PA you know! You people are ridiculous!!! I'm not going to go to a chinese restaurant and claim that the people are not chinese! I'm not going to go to a Catholic church and claim that the people there are not Catholic. The times and generations are always changing. You don't live your life like your parents lived theres. You don't still watch your TV in black and white. So yes, some Amish people do have cell phones, what's the big deal? Are they not allowed to modernize their lives just as you have done? You try and make a meal with ONLY organic and homegrown things. It's not that easy!!! My point is.......Amish are only human and people need to STOP picking them apart for these stupid things. At least they make their own meals (weather it be organic or not) instead of going out and eating fast food all the time just because they are too lazy to make it themselves. This is just stupid!!!!!

To all of you out there.......The Amish markets are called "Amish Markets" because they have REAL amish people working in them. They don't have all natural or organic things. You guys just assume they do because they are Amish. Yes, it is a far ride for a horse and buggy to go to Cherry Hill from Lancaster County. That's why they carpool in a 15 passenger van with a driver that is not Amish. Take a look in the parking lots sometime. You will see about 6 or so vans in it. As far as the bacon....did you expect them to bring a live pig to the market and cut it open right there??? They have to store it somewhere to bring it into work!!! As for the tomatoes....do you think they cannot grow in a garden? I have plants in my back yard and they produce lots of tomatoes, they can grow in PA you know! You people are ridiculous!!! I'm not going to go to a chinese restaurant and claim that the people are not chinese! I'm not going to go to a Catholic church and claim that the people there are not Catholic. The times and generations are always changing. You don't live your life like your parents lived theres. You don't still watch your TV in black and white. So yes, some Amish people do have cell phones, what's the big deal? Are they not allowed to modernize their lives just as you have done? You try and make a meal with ONLY organic and homegrown things. It's not that easy!!! My point is.......Amish are only human and people need to STOP picking them apart for these stupid things. At least they make their own meals (weather it be organic or not) instead of going out and eating fast food all the time just because they are too lazy to make it themselves. This is just stupid!!!!!

I really dig your Amish anger Susan. You know what they say, crazy in the barn, crazy in the ...

Gee, Susan was that rant really worth posting three times?

I think the point is the Amish guy told LV that "he was selling grass-fed beef raised without antibiotics or added hormones on a Lancaster County farm"

I think he told an Amish lie.

If you go to the Amish market thinking you're buying fresh cured bacon, and instead the Amish guy behind the counter is taking it out of a package you can buy at the A&P, that;s deception.

It's like anything else, the buyer must be aware. Amish or not.

Gee, Susan was that rant really worth posting three times?

I think the point is the Amish guy told LV that "he was selling grass-fed beef raised without antibiotics or added hormones on a Lancaster County farm"

I think he told an Amish lie.

If you go to the Amish market thinking you're buying fresh cured bacon, and instead the Amish guy behind the counter is taking it out of a package you can buy at the A&P, that;s deception.

It's like anything else, the buyer must be aware. Amish or not.

I guess that taught me, I posted twice. :)

I go to the market up in Cockeysville hoping to see Kelly McGillis working there, so what do I know?

Fraud, plain and simple, or a bald face lie, whatever you may choose to call it.

And from the discussion, we can see that the problem is not "them", it is us. We cannot even agree on what is simple deception and lying and fraud. Where the heck are we? There are people that come out of the woodwork to defend virtually everything.

Well, it sure was news to me. Would you now buy a used car from an "Amish" person?!

How about a nice used buggy, slasds?

This is some of the best food reporting you'll ever see. The CitiPeeks, Chowhounds, WhatstoEats, and "Examiners" would have been all to happy to take their freebie products home and write a sweetheart review. LV didn't go looking for trouble or problems with the market. However, she's smart, persistent and observant enough to ask real questions to her interview subjects. She also actually fact-checks, something professionals (as opposed to bloggers) are required to do Bravo!

I am sorry, but I have to call shenanigans here. LV has called out the Amish, but to say that this is "some of the best food reporting you'll see" is shortsighted. Check out the other reviews that LV's put out in both print and blog. To me, it's pretty obvious that she's more of an investigator than a food critique.

Maybe we just got spoiled with EL.

Anonymous,

Thank you for stating the obvious. Ms Vozzella has never claimed to be a "food critique [sic]." She contiunes to fill in here for the retired Ms Large and continues her investigative efforts elsewhere at the Sun.

We thank her for her efforts ... but look forward to the day when the Sun finds it possible to hire a full-time restaurant critic/blogmaster.

Great reporting on the Amish Market. Besides beeing totally
fake in their product representation they have no regard for the environment. As reported yestersday in the Dining section of the NY Times, Amish farmers in Lancaster County are being sighted by the FED's for allowing cow manure to run off in the already fragile Chesapeake Bay. Add the Amish to another product boycott.

Susan,
I can't speak for Tman, but, I thnk he/she meant that it is probably too early to have ripe tomoatoes ready for sale that were grown in Lancaster County. Though, I guess they could be hot house tomatoes.

Amish food products might be fake, but their furniture is not! Bought the best piece of furniture I own from the Amish.

Exactly Chris. Too early in the season for PA tomatoes. By the way does anyone know if they still have homemade products at the Lancaster Municipal market? I haven't been in years but I do remember the food being real.

IT'S AMISH!!!

SOYLENT GREEN IS AMISH!!!!!

Thanks Tman. I was speculating what you meant based on my own experience growing tomatoes. There's is nothing like a home grown tomato in the summertime :)

Oops, proofreading error. Should read either "There's" or "There is" not "There's is".

Um, apparently several of you didn't read that the Amish vendors hire drivers to bring them and their wares to the market in trucks or vans. At the very least, it would be unsafe for them to drive down here in their horse-drawn buggies.

Thank You!
I used to drive at least 30 minutes to buy meat from the Amish because I thought it was better quality than the Safeway located 5 minutes away. You have saved me the time, the gas and the mark-up.
In my desire to find farm-raised beef/chicken (as opposed to big agra corporations), I fell for the marketing gimmick and, with the Amish's reputation for honesty, assumed that the meat was raised by them. But this is America and the Amish are capitalists too...this must be a goldmine! They must get a good laugh off of us.
However, misrepresenting food as free-range when it is not will get them in trouble with USDA.

I think the Amish meat guy was as much a victim as anyone else. At least he called and asked his supplier, and then told the truth about where it was from.
To second ADM, you have to do a little research.
However I also agree with MAG, that there are some thing that should be "as advertised". No one wins this one.
If i MUST have meat, I'll just drive myself on out to Bullocks in Westminster to their meat store. (and they have a restaurant if i feeling lazy)

If i MUST have meat, I'll just drive myself on out to Bullocks

I thought you feasted on the souls of the righteous

"...the amish meat guy was as much as a victim as anyone else." Right! The Amish meat guy was a con man and a liar.

At the very least, it seems to me, anyone making claims of organic, grass-fed beef has a responsibility to know where the meat came from and how it was raised. He might not have been a con man, but he was certainly negligent.

@ baltimoper: Souls of the righteous are rare and expensive. I may as well dine on unicorn staff leavings.

I agree with Ruth - the fact that he let you take his photo is your first clue he's not Old Order Amish. 2nd is the fact that his beard is neat & trimmed (Old Order lets it grow wild)

I'm no journalist & even I know that much. Don't let the straw hat fool you.

Besides being deceitful in selling mislabeled beef, it is also dangerous. I won't eat anything other than grass fed local beef since our food testing standards are some of the worst in the world, especially when it comes to not even looking for BSE. I am appalled at the Amish Market and will no longer be spending any of my money there.

Excellent piece of reporting.

"However, misrepresenting food as free-range when it is not will get them in trouble with USDA."

But the big-money question remains: DID they actually present their food as "free-range" or "grass-fed" or "organic" or whatever? Or did you simply see a straw hat and beard and ASSUME as much?!? Having been to many of the "Dutch Markets," I'm pretty certain it's the latter.

In the "Dutch Markets" I have been in, I have NOT seen anything presented as "free-range/etc." except at a much higher price. I may see milk in glass bottles, but just because the bottle is old-fashioned doesn't mean the milk or cows are. And just because the berries are in quaint little wooden baskets rather than plastic boxes doesn't mean they're from a local field, or not from Florida or California.

The meats at the "Dutch markets" may or may not be better for you than what's at your Safeway or Giant, but I would make the wager that it's more likely to be at least a little fresher, and maybe you'll see it ground in front of you. Or not. The only times I've gotten questionable meats have been from inner-city chain supermarkets.

I did not assume it was grass-fed beef. I asked. He said it was grass-fed beef raised on a Lancaster County farm without added hormones or routine antibiotics.

DJ,
you are so stupid. Who ever said that an amish man is not allowed to trim his beard??? Was it the movies that you watch? I KNOW this man and he deff is amish. His drives a horse and buggy! Seriously.....and the photo???? Really??? Who lives in the 18th century anymore? The younger ones have cameras themselves. Would you like it if some random person took your picture and displayed to wherever they wanted to? I sure wouldn't! Or maybe you got that from a movie too.

Susan,

Please. There are ways to differ with someone's opinion without calling her "stupid." The world is rancorous enough without gratuitous slurs being flung at strangers.

I find myself wondering what movies you've been watching....

Bankstreet,
What does calling anyone stupid have to do with watching movies. I didn't mean to insult her but it drives me crazy that people would assume that these Amish are not really amish just because someone took a picture of him and he trims his beard. Do you really think that an Amish persons beard just grows the way it is on their face. They have to trim it or they would look like cave men. But by the way it sounds, that would make no difference because thats what some people think they are anyway. I meant that the comment was stupid not the person themselves. I do apologize for that.

Susan, as I'm sure you remember from your "Amish past" (I'm completely skeptical), you may recall something ....gelassenheit.

In past posts, you insisted you were Amish and cried foul on my relaying memories from my upbringing in Lancaster Pa and disputing my being a descendant of the Pennsylvania Dutch but maybe it is you, that needs a reminder to be humble and kind. Perhaps then you won't go around calling people stupid online.

As an aside, Alan- I understand your need to boycott the Amish (and i do love you, your amazing rockfish, and your cans of Sofia champagne more than anything) but take a trip to Lancaster, visit a few of the non tourist Amish areas, most of them have little stands at their house if you drive up, and they are honest, natural farmers with great products. Do they have a little manure run off? Sure, maybe. But recall that they were here long before anything else was developed, especially in Lancaster (it's sad how we've just built up all around them) and they still contribute so little to the overall / modern pollution problem. Right or wrong, I'd rather have pollution from an Amish man with manure running into my stream than watch the heroin addict in my neighborhood throw her used syringe on the sidewalk any day. Now that's a pollution problem...

Kristen,

Maybe you didn't read my last post. I admitted i was wrong and apologized for it!!!!! Trust me, I wouldn't do that if i didn't mean it. And yes you are right about the pollution problem. I personally don't think that manure is pollution. I mean its only a natural thing.

whats the big deal here? I had some of the meat mans meat and its the best hangish meat i ever had.

Thank you Jimmy. And by the way, I love how you used "hangish" in there.

first thing is first, if u didn't grow up around the amish u don't know anything about them, and 2nd his meat is great, we eat it at least twice a week, and never did he tell us any of those things about it, and we still bought it and still loved it. the "Meat man" is a wonderful neighbor and all around good person, remember u shouldn't say things about people that u don"t want said about u! and 3rd Kelly McGillis is an actress that lives in Berks County, and she is nothing like our real AMISH! Don't beleive everything u see on TV! sorry:( and LV, u should do a better job reporting, maybe u should write down what people say, instead of what u want to hear.... Maybe someone should look into your credentials!

Kelly McGillis isn't really Amish?

And she also wasn't really in to Tom Cruise either!

i would suggest getting rid of all the farms and simply buy all our food at the supermarket lets try it and see how long it takes this country to realize it's starving and too stupid to know what happened or how to fix it.

WoW. If only we could get that many people commenting on things that realy matter. I for one am concerned with the fact that Baltimore City just lost 100 experienced policemen and woo hoo they are going to replace them with 450 rookies! I read the comments for entertainment and could give fats rats behind about the marketing strategies of the PA Dutch!

You are actually much better off NOT buying anything that is grown or raised in Lancaster. People either forget or ignore the fact that their crops and their land is polluted with feces from their puppy mills. They openly admit that they spray and spread the waste from the mills on their crops. These are the same crops they sell you and feed their cattle. There is a big big difference between fertilizer from meat eating animals and the fertilizer used on regular crops. Boycott anything that comes from Lancaster, PA

You are actually much better off NOT buying anything that is grown or raised in Lancaster. People either forget or ignore the fact that their crops and their land is polluted with feces from their puppy mills. They openly admit that they spray and spread the waste from the mills on their crops. These are the same crops they sell you and feed their cattle. There is a big big difference between fertilizer from meat eating animals and the fertilizer used on regular crops. Boycott anything that comes from Lancaster, PA