Commenting only to report the Captcha because I'm now convinced it is reading the blog: Morals toxicity

Unruly children? Hey, that sounds like a great topic of discussion! Let's have at it!

Ahem.

This email raises an interesting question - what role should a restaurant staff play in controlling unruly mobs of kids? The answer, of course, should be none at all, as it should be 100% on the parents to do the controlling. Clearly, we all know this is not always the case.

The other night, when we were trying to decide where to go for dinner with our infant daughter and our visiting 4 year-old niece, we used the WWn'tLE (Where Wouldn't Lissa Eat) test and chose the Parkside - super kid-friendly (jk, Lissa!).

In their kid corral were a few children playing and one little boy throwing blocks, etc. at the other kids. We waited for a couple minutes, assuming the group of parents sitting nearby would say something, but they completely ignored the kids. So I called across the room "Hey! Don't throw things at people!" The kid, startled, obliged and was good the rest of the evening. Did the parents even look up? Nope.

If someone yelled at my kid, I'd have a couple of responses: 1) Why is that person yelling at my kid? and 2) Did my kid do something to provoke this?

The Parkside has rules for their play area, including a No Roughhousing policy. But I wonder who enforces them? Will the staff kick kids out of there for rough stuff? The parents clearly had no intention of reigning in their offspring at all.

Weepies McClure - my melodrama private eye name.

Oh, and yeah, it's odd to expect you to go back and change your reviews based on the experiences of others. I didn't call up the New York Times book reviewer and tell him/her to change the review of The Road because my flight was delayed while I was reading it...

I appreciate your consideration, sean.

Why should a parent who isn't properly supervising their children be treated any differently from a drunk who is being loud and groping the wait staff?

I once threw a parent out of my library for screaming across the building at their kid to shut up (the kid actually was not being too loud for the children's area). As I walked the parent out, he slapped his 3 year old in the face, and said, "See? You got thrown out for being a loud brat."

I told him that the kid could stay, as far as I was concerned, he was the problem, and he was the one I was throwing out.

Yikes, Lissa. That's awful. :(

Langermann's has shown up on a couple of yahoo lists as a new kid-friendly place, so I am not surprised to hear families are taking advantage of this. We took our 20 mo. old a few weeks ago and had a nice quiet experience - only one other couple with a child about the same age, but he was also well-behaved.

I did worry, though, how it was going to walk the line between remaining kid friendly and still welcoming those who don't want their dinners to be interrupted by wee ones behaving poorly.

The bottom line is that they have to have a larger client base than just people with kids and if those of us with kids want them to stay open, we have to make sure our kids aren't distractions to other diners. It seems like there is a role for management in this as well, if there are egregious kid disruptions - the way I would want them to intervene if there were egregious adult disruptions.

I hope they can figure out the happy medium for all their diners. I would hate to see another Can Company restaurant close.

I suppose a large sign on the hostess stand stating, "Well Behaved Children and Attentive Parents Welcomed" wouldn't be too over the top? Certainly sets the expectation right away, yes?

If I ever open a restaurant, it would be the first signage I'd invest in.

My utter disdain for noisy kids in restaurants has been mysteriously replaced by tolerance for, even frequent obliviousness to, unruly kids in restaurants. The transition began when I became a parent. Funny how that happens!

These days, I always feel bad for parents of crying toddlers in restaurants. Been there, done that, you feel the stares, but you've also ordered the food. It's a hopeless position.

Of course, it's easy to spot the attentive parents trying to mitigate the disruption versus those that ignore their children's behavior. Parents in the first category deserve, probably need, to be cut a break. Parents in the latter category, without question, should be shot.

Patrick, when a toddler cries, an adult takes them outside. This is etiquette 101.

What Lissa said.

I say the onus is on the management to seat the "family" patrons (read w/children in tow) as far away as possible in relation to guests who are "sans children".

Ditto Lissa...but that is just not the norm anymore. You know love me love my child. Sorry there are days I don't even want to be around mine let alone somebody else's unruly kid!

I've seen several signs in restaurants that state, "Unattended children will be given a free puppy and an espresso." Clever, but not bossy.

We raised four children, three while living in Maryland. My oldest daughter and two sons were always well behaved in restaurants. Mrs. Z and I used to pat ourselves on the back and say how we could take them to the White House for a State Dinner and be proud of them. We took them to the Prime Rib, to Tio Pepes, and of course Haussner's, plus many, many other restaurants.

Then came my youngest. She was a beautiful child, and a monster in a restaurant. When she was about two my wife, youngest son, she ,and I went on a vacation to Cape Cod. We stopped for lunch at the Hyannis Yacht Club. A big mistake! She was under the table, on the table, even in the kitchen (don't ask). She threw food that landed on an adjoining table. We apologized and left without finishing our meal. We were embarrassed and angry at ourselves for not being able to control her. We quickly learned we couldn't take her to a place where other patrons were trying to have a pleasant, quite or romantic meal.

We still didn't know what we did wrong or different with her compared to the other three. However much later she was diagnosed as having a bipolar disorder.

She grew up with a passion for food and cooking. She works at a fine restaurant in Phoenix. Today it's very enjoyable to take her out for dinner. But I still think about the Hyannis Yacht Club.

Captcha: New shackles - which some children need in a restaurant.

Mr. Ziegler, that's what I'm worried about! She's only 2.5 months now - who knows how she'll be in restaurants!

minister miscount - if the 2000 election took place in England.

How dare adults have a sanctuary.
How dare we seek quiet.
How dare we mourn in peace.
How dare we seek solace among ourselves.
How dare we enjoy veal cutlets beyond the puling of calves.

Want to be treated as an equal?
Be an equal.

Wow, Lissa, as a former librarian and current parent your story is going to haunt me for a bit.

Captcha: "have orally" - certainly not very PG...

sauteedsongbird, i usually find my sanctuary, quiet, solace, and places to mourn AWAY from the public, not in the middle of a restaurant. and that veal comment was just... creepy.

So, Volker, how do you deal with out-of-conrol children at your restaurant---or do they stay away?

Dahlink, I think the best thing to do is to stress the safety angle to the parents - the image of a bowl of hot soup or hot coffee going ending up scalding a small child that is running around the corner will convince most parents to keep their kids from acting out too much.

To be honest, we don't get a huge amount of kids at TBA, but most of them are pretty well-behaved.

Just give them to Rob to babysit, Volker.

The hippie or punk thing could be overlooked, but the cycling thing?

The kids would never recover.

This conversation was brought to my attention and I felt compelled to answer some of these frustrations. I was at Langermann's on the day in question when the kids were running around and I admit one of them was in my care. The writers are correct there were times when the kids were running around in a frenzy something that would certainly be disturbing. So please accept my apology. I totally agree and we all recognized we could have done better. Especially in light of the fact the owners are taking the heat I agree this is about the parents. But one fact I want people to know is that day the electricity went out on Boston Street and a number of families, thanks to the owners of Langerman's, camped out in the restaurant for many, many hours while waiting for the fix. It was not an ideal situation at all and the kids did the best they could and the parents maybe not such a good job. But the people that own that restaurant did a nice thing that day and I would hate for this to be a reflection on them. Langermann's is a great place and they are bringing jobs and a new place to eat in what was a long time vacant space in Canton.

I also was dining at Langermanns on that cold, rainy day in Canton with our kids. We also had no power at our home and hoped it would be a quick trip to eat. I agree with Matt Goddard's comments. It was an isolated incident and Langermanns was nothing but hospitable. As parents, we are usually more keen to our surroundings as to where it might make sense for our children to dine as we probably out stayed our welcome. Langermanns never made us feel that way. On an adult note, the next weekend we took 20 adults into Langermanns for a birthday celebration and the service, food and staff are nothing but exceptional! I would highly recommend the restaurant as it is a great location and wonderful venue for all city dwellers who are single, married or who have kids!

I am in 100% agreeance, "Bar and wait staff - it's your job to make sure customers act appropriately" exept 1 thing, this will get us fired. every time. no exceptons. we have to let the managers make that call, thats a call we can no longer make. we just had a meeting 2 months ago (we have been open for almost 2 years) that let us bartenders tell customers that their kids can not sit at the bar, and 80% of the time they want to argue with me about it. it's a bar, no kids, no exceptions. I really can't stand bars that let children sit there and ruin it for the rest of us. my customers are at the bar to get away from either home or work, they don't need a reminder of either.

barkeep77, this is how I know that I'm older than dirt: It is just as tacky as hell for a child to be sitting at the bar. It's one of the ways one identifies White Trash.

Eve, I think it's okay as long as the child is paying for his/her own drinks.

It's one of the ways one identifies White Trash.

As opposed to Red, Yellow, Black, and Brown Trash?

A large portion of my trash is now white, as it contains many many diapers.

...and also:

Jesus loves the little Trash
All the little Trash of the world
Black and yellow, red and white
They're all precious in His sight
Jesus loves the little Trash of the world

It's one of the ways one identifies White Trash.

Use of the term White Trash is how one identifies White People. The implication of the phrase is that trash is normally non-white.

By the Gods of Chaos, is that Elric on the keyboard?

Mr Sextans - I guess that'd be my stripper name...

sean, the version I learned was

Jesus loves the little children
All the children of the world
Red and yellow, black and blue,
He loves every one but you ...
Jesus loves the little children of the world.

Dahlink!

LOL.

Dahlink, I like your version MUCH better!!!

eyes pinatubo - what I did (warily) while we lived in the philippines...

"black and blue" That does not bring back pleasant memories at all.