This ties in with the "grown-up" food discussion. Before I knew what steak tartare was, I had been eating raw ground beef for years. It was often the main course at dinner on hot Baltimore nights. My mother would select a round steak [or whatever] and have the butcher grind it twice. She would add an egg [raw, of course], form a meat loaf out of it and slap it on a platter. She was careful to cook pork carefully, though, because a friend had had a bad experience with trichynosis, but beef was always cooked rare when it was cooked at all.

Even now, I sample as I make hamburgers. But frozen hamburgers? Never at home.

This is because of two things - your local butcher no longer grinds your beef to order, and food inspection was decimated during the Dubya years (although it sucked before then, too).

The problem is unsanitary handling, not the beef itself. Got to squeeze those quarter pennies of profit out of every bite, after all.

"Enough to turn yer teeth snow white..."

Forget not eating burgers rare--I would prefer never to eat a burger ever again.

Remember the tainted spinach outbreak? Ever have a nice cool glass of water in Tiajuana? There is almost nothing you can eat or drink that doesn't risk poisoning you. But the odds on surviving a hamburger are probably better than coming through unscatched or undented on your morning drive to work. On the other hand, I've always preferred my meat well done, a practice to which I intend to assiduously adhere in the future. Logic is one thing. But why take chances?

i think a lot of people dont understand why eating a burger rare is dangerous and eating a steak rare is not. The bad bacteria can theoretically be on any cut of beef- but, on the outside, not within. When you have a steak, the outside portions get seared and any bad bacteria get killed. When beef is ground, it all gets mixed together, so anything that was once only on the outside can move into the interior. At the very least, please never order your children's burgers anything but well done, as kids are more susceptible to the harmful effects of bad e. coli.

When I am back in Edwardsville, Illinois next Saturday and watch my local butcher grind my ground sirloin fresh right in front of me I will wonder how we ever got to the point of frozen burgers with meat paste from five sources all ground together. I will only order less than well done burgers from restaurants that grind their meat in house on a daily basis. I assume that Eddie's and Grauls grind their meat fresh in store. Are there any small butcher shops in the area?

As a med rare steak eater all my life, I would never risk my life with a med rare burger. The handling of ground beef in this country is irresponsible at best, and grossly negligent at worst. It's always been med well burgers for me. Great flavor is not worth risking one's health.

"Are there any small butcher shops in the area? "

EEL, you've stated the problem right there. Those of us who live outside the cities (for whatever reason) do not have the convenience of a local butcher. When I grew up in New York our butcher was one block away. My mother would walk in and ask for a pound of "the usual," which our butcher knew was ground chuck. They used to grind meat at my local Giant but that stopped a few years ago and most of the ground meats are in pre-sealed packages from whomever, and filled with carbon monoxide to keep it red for weeks. I am looking forward to having a Wegmans open in Columbia so I can easily shop at a decent meat department (Harris Teeter is not bad, but much smaller).

RiE you're in luck

Trueths on Oella Avenue just west of Catonsville www.jwtreuth.com/

RiE, real butcher shops are becoming increasingly rare in the city as well.

I wouldn't eat raw ground beef from a supermarket, but wouldn't hesitate to eat it from a Kosher butcher. Why? Supermarkets also grind raw pork, which is NOT safe to eat raw. That's not a problem with a Kosher butcher. One of the best things I ever ate was ground sirloin from a Kosher butcher, with all the condiments alongside. Mmmmmm!

Dottie, there was a time when we pork-eaters were warned about the dangers of trichinosis, which became an excuse for our families to overcook pork products to death, and then some. Nowadays, however, according to Wikipedia, the USA averages only 12 cases of trichinosis a year, owing to safer handling of pork. E. coli, on the other hand, can be found in virtually any raw meat (especially beef, but also chicken, lamb, and, yes, pork) or raw vegetable. At least one online study estimated 25,000 annual E. coli cases in the USA. The kosher butcher's lack of contact with pork is not likely to reduce the risk of E. coli to any great degree.

My family is German, and I grew up eating "raw beef sandwiches". I still eat them from time to time and they are delicious. We get our sirloin ground fresh from our butcher. Served on dark pumpernickel bread, with salt, plenty of freshly ground black pepper and a slice of sweet onion, and a cold beer. It's outstanding! I'm 67, been eating this for years, but I guess there is always a first time for getting sick.

Raw beef sandwiches used to be available at Haussner's. I have an old menu from January 1987 which list's "Raw Beef with Onions for $4.75.

Dottie - I don't know if it's just my supermarket or all Baltimore Co, or the whole state, but my butcher told me he's not allowed to grind pork or lamb either. I either have to find it already ground and packaged or shop elsewhere.

I don't know. I'm just praying my few burgers that I eat each year are prepared by someone who washes his or her hands first. Usually the main cause of these diseases. I refuse to be afraid of "rare"! (yet)

Jack Ziegler, who and where is your butcher?

Two comments.

1. Since we get good local beef from the Bel Air Farmers Market, butchered in Lancaster County, I have a lot of confidence in the base material. I have a grinding attachment for my stand mixer, and a scale that lets me add 12% fat to the lean to make gosh darned good burgers that I can have rare.

2. Weis Markets still grind beef for their service counter, and once I had them grind a chuck roast from the case for me. The second time they couldn't do it, for whatever reason.

You know how many menus now commonly tell you that they will only prepare certain foods at least medium, out of safety concerns or whatever?

That whole "forbidden fruit" aspect of rare meat makes me lust for it all the more every time I see such a notice.

Halal butchers all over town grind their own meet upon request and the animals are slaughtered locally and come from farms in PA. I would suggest stopping in on Fridays or Saturday mornings to ensure the freshest lamb and beef.

Add to the list of butchers who grind their own hamburger: Fenwick Meats in Cross Street market, just inside the Light Street entrance. He's an old-fashioned butcher who can and will do anything. Please patronize him as he is a dying breed.

Elite Elephant Lover:

Sorry I should have mentioned, I now live in the Pocono's. The butcher is in Milford, PA., Prime Time Meats.

Now if I could only find a fish market up here that sold fresh crab meat, live hard crabs, and "whales", in-season of course I'd be happy. :-)

Saw this on America's Test Kitchen this weekend and tried it (how to make a juicy, great tasting burger when cooked well-done).

1 1/2 lbs ground meat
1 slice of white bread minus crust cut up in small pieces
2T of milk
1t salt
black pepper to taste
2 minced cloves garlic
2t A-1 sauce (I don't like A-1 sauce so I substituted worcestshire)

mix cut up bread and milk with fork til paste is formed.
add all remaining ingredients and mix with hands
form 4 patties and make indentation in middle
fry or grill (I grilled on charcoal) til well done

I have to say that this method gave me the best, juiciest burgers I have ever made even though they were totally "well-done".

Wondering where the clean burgers are, found some places at Roseda's site:
http://www.rosedabeef.com/index.php?main_page=recipes

Lone Lady, I'm sure the thing tasted just fine but I think I'd rather just have a meat loaf sandwich and call it that.

I have posted this here and there before, but:
My late father grew up on a SW Wyoming cattle ranch, and he never ate his steak more than medium rare and never ate his burgers less than medium well (he was actually kind of surprised the first time someone asked him for a burger temperature). I think this came from a distrust of large-scale beef processors.

Oh dear. I need to know where the Kooper's traveling burger truck gets their ground beef. I don't want to have to give up my new addiction, but I'm pretty creeped out right now.

Their sign says they cook all burgers medium well (and how do they know? are they using meat thermometer?), but sourcing is also important it seems.

Sourcing is more important than how you cook it. The cooking is just an attempt to make up for bad handling, and some of the most dangerous bacteria out there aren't killed by heating.

You can cook your burger to resemble a hockey puck, and it is still dangerous if it came from a plant that isn't inspected.