Wake me when somebody floats a reasonable plan for finding the $1 billion this project will cost. Until then, this whole idea is wasting everybody's time.

It would certainly lose some of its charm. I personally don't even see the JFX as the core problem though. The traffic concerns are one issue with this. I'm sure that there are right and wrong ways to get that resolved though, but if we remove that section of the JFX we'll still have the Supermax campus, Juvi, the impound lot, the homeless issue there, ...
I'm more inclined to think that those issues are what is keeping "progress" from heading east. That said, I'm glad they are at least starting to brainstorm how to resolve this issue. I liked the artist rendering, but to get there seems like a lot more than just razing the JFX.

I'm all for it but I work for a highway contractor. Bridges to nowhere, billion dollar urban boulevards, express toll lanes, I love them all. Never mind the fact that the infrastructure we have inplace now is crumbling for lack of maintenance and sewage flows into our rivers and bays due to inadequate treatment facilities. Now is the time to follow the money. What developers will profit the most from this work and how much do they contribute to the politicians involved? Expose this now before the money is spent.

No need to worry. Tearing down a chunk of the JFX would reportedly cost at least a billion dollars. The only question is why the city is squandering even a few bucks to study a project it can't concievably afford, even if it made sense. Which the experts will probably agree that it doesn't. In other words, I'm confident that my wife and I will stroll below the freeway, seaching for leeks, ripe peaches and silver corn for years to come.

Hm, wonder what else that billion could be used for instead of helping the property owners, including the Hopkins Plantation?

Why-- when the city is in the poor house, can barely afford to pay its bills, and is too poor to give its police, firefighters, and teachers meaningful pay raises, and their schools remain in the crapper--given all that, WHY, WHY, WHY are they considering spending $1 BILLION that they don't even have on this stupid idea.

In my opinion, the only thing the JFX is good for is having the market underneath. So, yeah, tear it down. It is an eyesore and a blight.

In its place, build a light rail line, since we're obviously blue skying with no monetary limitations.

Lissa--

How do you suppose the city pay for the $1 billion price tag, when it has a hard enough time paying it's current debts?

chowsearch,
Just to comment on your Hopkins comment...this city would be in serious trouble without Hopkins! It is a major employer for the residents of Maryland AND the City of Baltimore. Not to mention it hires a ton of people that would be nothing except a burden on society otherwise. So if it costs a billion or more to make an economic improvement and create jobs, I'm all for it!

All Baltimore has to do is wait for a major earthquake. That is how San Francisco got rid of its elevated expressway.

That being said, I'm kind of torn on the issue.

I think it is a legitimite planning concern that the expressway cuts the downtown in half, and that results in property and tax base being under developed. The city must also continue to grow and dream, and that means not just dismissing big ideas and saying money should be used on the same old same old, such as giving more money to the teachers, police and firefighters.

On the other hand there is legitimite concern about traffic problems and funding, particulary if the city/state would have to return federal money.

As for location of the market, I find its placement under the JFX as nice but not great. Other than the fact it is covered, I fail to see how other locations, such as the paking lots at the Rotunda or Poly/Western High School, would be significantly worse.

Lissa, light rail is alright with me, we can build that too.

How do you suppose the city pay for the $1 billion price tag, when it has a hard enough time paying it's current debts?

Gift cards, lots of gift cards

"How do you suppose the city pay for the $1 billion price tag, when it has a hard enough time paying it's current debts?"

The same way cities have been funding road projects for more than half a century: With Federal and State funding. Throw in a Light Rail (mass transit is still big) line and you can probably get up to 90% non-city funding.

Good one Tim.

Uh RoCK that's a great idea, move it out of the city to a location convenient for the people of Roland Park and Cross Keys. Be warned I will be moving the adjacent hobo town up there too.

Give me your hungry, your tired your poor Ill **** on em
Thats what the statue of bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses, lets club em to death
And get it over with and just dump em on the boulevard

Get to end up, on the dirty boulevard
Going out, to the dirty boulevard
Hes going down, on the dirty boulevard
Going out

Local governments, like Baltimore City, don't pay for the construction or maintenance of interstates; however, there are a lot of questions as to who would fund the destruction of an interstate.

Ooooo, Tim! Nice.

Owlie, stop thinking of yourself and start thinking of others. For instance, if the market were moved to Poly, it would be a lot more convienient for me. It would probably result in my eating more fresh vegtables, which is also a good thing. I could go on, but I believe I've already won this argument.

Well RoCK you kow that the first rule of the League of Roberts is never talk about the League of Roberts. Second rule: always think of yourself first. I call that the Invisible Hand of Robert. I have another application foor that phrase but this is not the place.

I get very, very cranky without my fresh veggies, fruit and Hickory Chance beef.

You all wouldn't like me if I were cranky, right?

So, the market stays downtown.

I don't know...RoCK has a point. Poly is much more convenient for me too... But, I STILL wouldn't probably go anyway because despite my best intentions I NEVER want to go into the city on the weekends.

And, I don't want Lissa cranky, so the market can't move.

Besides, if Lou Reed feels passionately enough about it to comment on our blog, then stay it must.

Lissa, I think we've seen a hint of crankiness from you from time to time, but we still like you. This is not Miss Mary Sunshine's blog, after all.

From what I've seen of the renderings, the concrete would be replaced by greenspace. It would be simple to build a space/building for the farmers' market into the plan. Imagine something like the Eastern Market in DC (http://www.easternmarketdc.com/) It could be wonderful!

RoCK, for some reason Baltimore City is responsible for I-83 within the city limits. Worst experience ever for a contractor I worked for was paving the south end of the JFX.

Yes, Baltimore City is responsible for I 83. The City is also responsible for state roads; whereas in the counties the state is responsible for state roads. The City, however, is not responsible for funding the I 83 out of there general tax dollars. They receive dedicated funding for that.

It would be simple to build a space/building for the farmers' market into the plan.

INSIDE?? Put the Market in a building?

Be like DC? Yeah. That's what we all want to be when we grow up.

Really, FrankM.

Bob's right (one of the first posts). Not being "connected" is not what's preventing development (as I drove up yesterday and stared at the prison.) No one is going to stroll a boulevard within sight of it.

There are plenty of places already connected that need the money. The broadway corridor north of JHH is a great example. There are so many other place 1 billion could be better spent.

FrankM -- that Eastern Market website states that the farmers' market is a weekend open-air event. "Open-air" sure sounds to me like something that isn't in a building. Also, as for markets inside buildings, we already have Lexington Market and the other city markets.

But that old prison is one remarkable piece of architecture. All that massive stonework and that steeply pitched galvanized roof. It would be nice to see it rehabbed into some sort of East Side Anchor. The prisoners and their attendant human resources could easily be relocated to some other secure location, say, Timonium.

LL - you got me mid-sip. Tea on the keys!

I like the old prison. It looks solid.

25 years ago, I lived down the street from the old city prison in Northampton, MA, as it was being converted to condos. The locals were a bit confused by this, but they apparently sold well.

I LOL at you, LL. Maybe if the transfer doesn't go through, they could put on puppet shows for the kids on the boulevard in their tiny little windows.

I think a new prison in Timonium is a great idea. We build them as well. And we can convert the existing to condos. This post is providing me with job security. For the new prison we could make it a finance, design, build, operate project. This would save the City any upfront money. I'm loving this more every minute.

Prisons. I think we should take all the undesirables and put them in an enclosed place between, say 83 and Falls Road, just north of Cold Spring Lane. Oh wait ....

Works for me, Owlie.

I don't think the prisoners would want to move to Cross Keys. We have more rules than their current location has. I don't think, 8th amendment wise, they or their lawyers would accept our authoritarian environment.

Owl and Lissa, tease RoCK if you must but have some compassion for Donnas!

Aw, all the prison needs is a little faux painting and some landscaping and people won't even notice it there.

Notice I said "Space/building" for a farmers' market. A plaza for an open air market would be one option. Since many people like that the current location is somewhat covered, a building is another. A pavilion structure of some kind (roofed, but with open sides) would have the best of both worlds.

Eastern Market in DC is an historic building, rather like the demolished market that was in Old Town here in Baltimore. I think it operates during the week as well (I might be wrong), but on weekends, it's considerably livelier, with lots of outdoor stalls with more food vendors, crafts-people and more.

What is it with so many Baltimoreans who seem to always be saying "It might work in DC (or out West, or in Europe or...fill in the blank) but it would never work here." Why not?? Jeesh!

I don't know Donnas, Joyce.

Ok, we'll keep the prison, but Cross Keys and its neighbours get all the group homes. That work?

FrankM, it is just the Baltimore inferiority complex speaking.

I'll defend Frank M. on this. I wish we had an Eastern Market here in Baltimore. It's a great place. The inside portion (in the historic building that just was rebuilt and reopened after the tragic fire) is open every day, and on weekends there's an outdoor farmer's market.

Yes, let's put the group homes in Cross Keys and its neighbors. It is not like Baltimore City needs to preserve its tax base or anything.

If Baltimore City were serious about tax base, prostitution and drugs would be legal.

Exactly, Lissa!