I do not enjoy eating outdoors in any situation (home, restaurant, picnic). I cannot pinpoint what exactly it is that I don't like about it, but I just don't.

Outdoor seating should also be smoke free. It's still technically part of the restaurant.

NotableM, I only dislike outdoor arrangements that are set up in front of a restaurant on the sidewalk. I don't like traffic, among other things, near my food. However, I do like eating on roof top terraces or on back patios.

As for the smoking loophole, I think it should be closed. I hate even following someone on the sidewalk who smokes. I know smokers are having a tough go of it, but I just don't want to breathe in their smoke at any time.

i'm all for closing more streets, and setting up more al frescos. how about shutting down thames st for a few hours after work, say 4 until 8pm, and you get extra credit for riding your bicycle in?
the smoking part would i think be mostly self-regulated; i believe the vast majority of smokers do not want to discomfort non-smokers, and would mostly abstain.
otherwise, i am not a huge fan of what Americans think of as curbside dining. nothing charming about sitting outside Mezze for example watching the hummers and limos chug past. give me a little european village ambiance with some fresh bread, a nice table red, no cars, and plenty of human traffic to admire. is this so much to ask??

Like J, I don't like to be around smoke and if the outdoor tables are a way around the smoking ban that should be fixed. Here's how bad I am with second hand smoke: I'm stopped at a traffic light or stop sign, it winter so all window in my car and the one stopped ahead of are closed, within a short time I can smell the smoke from the other car. No joke it happens a lot.

I dislike sidewalk seating because I walk on sidewalks. However, the whole non-smoking thing has gone way, way too far. Non-smoking restaurants are fine. Mandating that all restaurants must be non-smoking isn't, and I guess I'll put up with sidewalk seating, as long as the entire sidewalk (Canton bars, I'm glaring at you) isn't blocked.

I love outdoor seating/eating on a nice day, but not sucking someone else’s stench. (I’m in RtSO’s camp on sensitivity and smelling it from an adjacent car at a red light.) I hope some of these restaurants bear in mind that non-smokers also like outdoor dining (with fresh air and food that tastes like food, not smoke) and try to make some kind of provisions for that, so it’s not all just a smoky haze out there.

Its just the Law of Unintended Consequences at work. You ban smoking in restaurants; there are still patrons who smoke; there is an outdoor patio; Voila! a place to eat, smoke and not be in the restaurant. You can pass another law or expand the current one. People will find the loophole. Even if you flat out ban tobacco, smokeless tobacco, nicotine products, anything that is associated with smoking, people will find a way. Just like in Jurassic Park - life will find a way.

Re: smokers rights -
All animals are created equal
Some animals are more equal than others

Absolutely other cities prohibit smoking in outdoor seating areas, or require restaurants to section off an area for smokers.

Whoa up a minute, Kimosabe. There is no reason to ban smokeless tobacco. It is a victimless vice.

No what another side effect of the smoking ban is? A run on pitchforks. I went to my local hardware store and they were plum out.

ooh - a place to use my Cash Cab knowlege! There are now bars (and restaurants) cropping up that are called "smoke-easies"!

The restaurants down here that have outdoor seating, intend that seating to be for the smokers. I guess that is why there are ashtrays on every table.

Restaurants right on the beach/gulf are different (no ashtray) but they allow smoking if its nice weather.

You'll get my cigarettes when you pry them from my cold dead hands.
Ironic,no?

I think the solution is obvious. You all need to organize a protest. Gather everyone together, complete with megaphones, and block the entrances to these establishments that allow smokers in their outdoor seating areas. Maybe even have someone there with a video camera to document the proceedings.

If that doesn't work, maybe the more mischevious amoung you can vandalize the places over night.

It's obviously the only solution for these scurrilous polluters

Anonymous, you might be on to something. Maybe this group could be called People Energized Take Air?

Now people, if we keep on making it tough for the smokers to smoke, then who is going to pay all those tobacco taxes?

What I like are restaurants that open the windows adjacent to the outdoor tables so the smoke drifts right into the restaurant.

I hate to say this, but smokers spend more time and money at bars and restaurants than foodies do. And owners know this. We just like to party more. You get out for your weekly foraging, while these evil smokers are on that bar stool every night. Sorry to break the news to you....

Anonymous,
Do you have facts?Data?Anything?

Outdoor or indoor, the seating, service, table, etc is still part of the restaurant.

Considering there are several establishments where they don't seem to inquire as to your preference and you've waited long for a table, then they take you outside... 1. I'll grumble as I don't care for outdoor restaurant seating and I'll often indicate that a restaurant during "check in" and 2. law of averages says I would end up next to the smokers (with severe allergies I did celebrate the smoking ban).

I say, make it easy on the restaurants, no smoking means no smoking anywhere in the establishment.

I personally wish no smoking meant no smoking anywhere anytime. Yes, I know smokers. I know you have rights and that you enjoy your smoke and you are paying a huge tax burden for the privilige of smoking in this fine democratic country of ours.

I also work in health care, and I know how much you are going to COST to treat when you have cancer or at the least COPD.

I say, make cigarettes illegal. Legalize weed. Tax heavily. decriminalize all other substances and dole out medically (ie Netherlands) and grow something that people can eat or make ethanol out of instead of tabacco!

(you can write my name in as a write in candidate for the next presidential election, or write me in as a Nobel prize candidate!)

BTW, is anybody elses page blue?

I know how much you are going to COST to treat when you have cancer or at the least COPD.

I believe there have been credible studies demonstrating that smokers cost society less, over the course of their lives, than do non-smokers. This is primarily because they die earlier than healthy people and are not a drain on Social Security and Medicare for as long.

Mine page is blue too. The smoke is probably depriving it of oxygen.

I believe there have been credible studies demonstrating that smokers cost society less, over the course of their lives, than do non-smokers.

Oh, Babe! Smokers lives are shorter!!

Sorry, Buck, I didn't read Sentence #2. Just sorta jumped right on that soapbox....

Back when I was smoking, I did put off going to the Dr because I knew that, no matter what my ailment - really, once it was a cracked ankle - I was going to get The Lecture. Sometimes, I'd just lie and say Nope, I don't smoke. Don't know what you think you're smellin' there, Sweetie. Maybe you should talk to your staff about their lunch-hour activities.

It's well documented in cities and states that have public smoking bans that they actually increase business in bars and restaurants. Old news

Joyce W. for President!!!

Change we can believe in!!!

I had a doc once who lectured the hell out of me to quit smoking. And I had an appt. right after lunch and the doc reeked of cigarettes. It was the last time I went to that doc.

Eve, when I smoked, the first thing I told doctors is that if they gave me The Lecture, I was firing them, and getting another doctor. I stuck to it, too.

(Yes, I am a difficult patient, thank you.)

Look smoker or not, the bulk of one's medical expenses will be incurred in the last year of life. I never understand how all these claims are made about the burden of smokers, as if everyone else is dying on the cheap. If we want to save money, we need are more people dying quickly, like by bear attacks

Smoking, who cares? It's so last century. We won. The tyranny of the majority once again dominates. The situation of smokers in society always reminded me of apartheid – a tyranny of the minority, but instead of repression by an economically superior minority it was a forced vulgarization of society by a group of generally lower SES. Interesting. In the end it boils down to addiction changing your brain chemistry. All smokers think smokers are awesome and the same tends to go for drinkers, cokeheads, crack addicts. huffers and junkies. And survivors of bear attacks, GRRR.........

After the Baltimore City ban was enacted I almost immediately wanted to smoke. If you increased taxes to $20 a pack you could bring back elegant smoking instead of the vulgar wretched mediocre addiction you see now. I'm thinking of gentlemen in top hats and monocles, like Mr. Peanut, hey he's a legume.

I love outdoor seating - Im all for it, and there isnt enough of it. And smokers ARE better tippers and spenders.

According to reliable sources,cigarettes are more dangerous than bear attacks.

Elegant smoking? Owl, you mean that when something is so expensive that most people can't afford to do it, it's acceptable? Like cocaine was cool when it was five hundred bucks a gram but now it's passe' because the riff raff can get it?

Maybe if the cocaine trade gets cut off by the DEA (oh yeah,right!) then it can get more expensive again and only rich psychiatrists (ie Freud) and writers will be using it again. Much more acceptable. Maybe gentlemen with monocles and top hats will be doing rails of coke in the Belvedere.

Maybe gentlemen with monocles and top hats will be doing rails of coke in the Belvedere.

Wow, Joyce, I would pay good money to see that!

How about the Monopoly banker?

Why do we associate monocles with the rich. You'd figure monocles would be for people who couldn't afford the frames. The rich can afford the frames, the nose guards, even the occassional chain. It should be the poor guy walking around with just a lens.

Forget about smoking or not outside, where's there a decent placein this city where you can have a drink and nosh with your pooch?

Look smoker or not, the bulk of one's medical expenses will be incurred in the last year of life.

That's not a fact. 8>(

Like cocaine was cool when it was five hundred bucks a gram but now it's passe' because the riff raff can get it?

That's exactly what I mean. Ronald Reagan caused cocaine to become a passe hoi polloi drug like nicotine, Hot Pockets, and American Idol.

Famous people with monocles:
Mr. Peanut
Colonel Klink
The New Yorker mascot
Charlie MacCarthy
The Penguin
Colonel Mustard

I rest my case.

Ann Kangas wrote where's there a decent place in this city where you can have a drink and nosh with your pooch? That sounds like a post for the pet blog!

Then plan your path to get to those goals. Each journey begins with one step and step one to attaining your goals is to make a practical price range that both of you can reside with.