What, Dave doesn't think that the stork brought him?

Dave needs to spend more time with us. He doesn't strike me as light-hearted but I think we can fix that.

Hey, he started it. Book would be very hurt if I had not contributed.

you're only encouraging us, Dave...

Is Dave going to be a new member to the sandbox? How can we iinititate this young one into the chaos that is our home.

Dave, don't interrupt the rhythm of our topic drift.

I owe my very existence to the fact that the Sandbox can't stay on track.

We hope Dave comes back and visits The Only Blog You Need.

Oh, and by the way…are you telling us that there are other Sun bloggers who have not discovered the phenomenon that is the Sandbox?

How can that be?

It certainly amazes me. EL

barf

Oh, for the sake of all the gods, don't encourage Joyce. She'll only get me going, then Bad Things will happen!

Just a thought: we could take this over there. I'm sure the Read Street folk would be happy (in the same way small towns are happy when the Hells Angels stop for a day or two.)

Don't get me wrong -- I think the Sandbox is great. In a twisted sort of way, yesterday's posts remind me of the old joke: I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out.
I merely suggested to Elizabeth (my one-time tennis partner who seems to enjoy making me the brunt of abuse) that the next time I'm seeking restaurant recommendations, I will ask for tips about the opera. I see how your minds work.

we could take this over there

Wordville survived.

RtSO, you are saying we are the food equivalent of the Hell's Angels? The Dining Demons? Restaurant Rugrats? Sandbox Sillies? Food Flingers?

Dave said: ...who seems to enjoy making me the brunt of abuse.

Oh, David, David, David. THIS isn't abuse. If you want abuse, just ask what's in a meatball other than meat.

THIS is just our way of showing we care, deeply.

In almost all things, Bertie Wooster is my role (or roll) model. The Drones Club dining room is famous, if not infamous for its flying bread rolls. So, I would not fight any of the appellations you have suggested. Having said that, if OMG hates, with white hot passion, Sandbox, I think Sandbox Sillies might send him over the edge.

I think it's fair to say that The Sandbox is more literate than the book blog.

Got that right, Laura Lee!

Laura Lee:

You can say it, but it doesn't make it true.

So much delusion....

I think it's fair to say that The Sandbox is more literate than the book blog.

This doesn't surprise me at all. I had a director who claimed that library patrons didn't read signs. I didn't believe him, until I'd spent a few months on a reference desk. The most common question was "Where is the reference desk?"

I sat under a sign that said, in letters at least 6" high, "Reference."

I'm with Literate Laura Lee.

Me too with Laura Lee.

Though it pre-dates her appearance on the blog, how much time have we spent here on Prufrock alone?

The Owl Man loves to wear his trousers rolled.

I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.

Why? Because everybody loves a crab cake. Right, BG?
>8>]

Thanks, Bourbon Girl. I certainly do remember Prufrock, in fact that's when things really started getting interesting on the blog. Also OMG's exegesis of Finnegan's Wake. I wish I knew how to locate some of that stuff.

I clearly offended Not Leaving My Name and I am sorry about that. My comment about the book blog was made in jest (though I do really hold that opinion). I have a tendency to have certain people in mind (chiefly sandboxers) to whom I address my comments, forgetting that it's not just Dining@Large Eyes Only. I'll try to rein it in; it is not my intention to disparage the other blogs just because they don't rise to the level of this one.

Yes, Laura Lee--wouldn't it be wonderful if we could search this blog by poster or keyword and find those half-remembered posts?

I was on some other blog earlier this week where someone made the astonishing statement that no one had ever read James Joyce's Ulysses. I would be willing to bet that a majority of the regular posters here have not only read that (cover to cover) but they have also at least attempted Finnegans Wake (no apostrophe, LL)

I find the differences between the different Sun blogs to be very interesting.

Ulysses was my favourite book in high school. My English teacher gave it to me. I loved it. Read it every 4 or 5 months for a few years.

I will admit, I didn't finish FW. I'm not smart enough for it.

Dahlink -- I finally got through Ulysses, but it took 20+ years and at least two false starts along the way. Believe it or not, I found that it helped to read it out loud as I went through it; maybe that method heightens one's appreciation of Joyce's use of language, although it won't endear you to the local librarian. I still haven't managed to take a stab at Finnegans Wake -- one of these days, perhaps.

Interblog rivalry is healthy

Livin' Large Laura Lee, as you might expect I have very strong feelings about Finnegans Wake. [no apostrophe] You don't need to finish it. That would imply that it has a beginning and an end. It was meant to be read like a Rolodex. Try reading the last page followed by the first page. It is a seamless piece of text.

I could go on forever about Eliot, Joyce and Beckett. But nobody really wants me to be Their Own Personal Exegesis even if it is depeche mode. Nobody liked that joke when I was studying koine (NT) Greek at St. Mary's Seminary.

FW is bigger than any of us. Let it flow over you and have its way with you, like a mischievous ocean. It assaults you into a present world that cannot exist that you must alloto exist. Poets never admit or perhaps understand that it was one of the most important poetic influences of the modern age – at least for me. Dig it.

Last page:

sad and weary I go back to you, my cold father, my cold mad
father, my cold mad feary father, till the near sight of the mere
size of him, the moyles and moyles of it, moananoaning, makes me
seasilt saltsick and I rush, my only, into your arms. I see them
rising! Save me from those therrble prongs! Two more. Onetwo
moremens more. So. Avelaval. My leaves have drifted from me.
All. But one clings still. I'll bear it on me. To remind me of. Lff!
So soft this morning, ours. Yes. Carry me along, taddy, like you
done through the toy fair! If I seen him bearing down on me now
under whitespread wings like he'd come from Arkangels, I sink
I'd die down over his feet, humbly dumbly, only to washup. Yes,
tid. There's where. First. We pass through grass behush the bush
to. Whish! A gull. Gulls. Far calls. Coming, far! End here. Us
then. Finn, again! Take. Bussoftlhee, mememormee! Till thous-
endsthee. Lps. The keys to. Given! A way a lone a last a loved a
long the

First page:

riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend
of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to
Howth Castle and Environs.
Sir Tristram, violer d'amores, fr'over the short sea, had passen-
core rearrived from North Armorica on this side the scraggy
isthmus of Europe Minor to wielderfight his penisolate war: nor
had topsawyer's rocks by the stream Oconee exaggerated themselse
to Laurens County's gorgios while they went doublin their mumper
all the time: nor avoice from afire bellowsed mishe mishe to
tauftauf thuartpeatrick: not yet, though venissoon after, had a
kidscad buttended a bland old isaac: not yet, though all's fair in
vanessy, were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe. Rot a
peck of pa's malt had Jhem or Shen brewed by arclight and rory
end to the regginbrow was to be seen ringsome on the aquaface.
The fall (bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthur- 16
nuk!) of a once wallstrait oldparr is retaled early in bed and later
on life down through all christian minstrelsy. The great fall of the
offwall entailed at such short notice the pftjschute of Finnegan,
erse solid man, that the humptyhillhead of humself prumptly sends
an unquiring one well to the west in quest of his tumptytumtoes:
and their upturnpikepointandplace is at the knock out in the park
where oranges have been laid to rust upon the green since dev-
linsfirst loved livvy.

Depends on the local librarian, hmpstd. It isn't like public libraries have been quiet for over 20 years.

Dahlink, you're on. If a majority of the regular D@L posters have read Ulysses, I will give you a book cherished by the literati: the 2008 Julie Rose translation of Les Miserables (foreword by Adam Gopnik). I trust this is an honorable bunch, and would not exaggerate their accomplishments.
And if I win?

Let's see...first, we'd have to define "regular D@L posters". Then figure out a way to figure out who is telling the truth. '

Besides, Hugo sucks.

Well, first look at all the responses to the question. Then it should be kind of easy to pick out the regular posters.

But I get what you mean Lissa. There should be a definition of "regular poster".

I will be honest, I've never read Ulysses. Never had to in school and didn't read it on my own.
I have stayed in the Dublin hotel that was used in the book, does that count?

doesn't Les Miserables refer to the poor students left to wallow through the agony of Jean Valjean?

Well, Dave, let me ponder an appropriate response. We are an honorable bunch, you may be assured.
We could ask Bucky to set up the polling for us.

As for the prize, I have to (in all honesty) agree with Lissa (although I do like Adam Gopnik!)

Okay, Dave--done thinking. Would you accept an invitation to have a drink on me at the James Joyce pub at a mutually agreeable time? That's assuming you win, of course.

Just roll with it, Dave. Resistance is futile.

Funny you should mention the futility of resistance, Mr. McIntyre. I got my start online with the Prodigy Borg collective.

Dahlink, it's a deal. And on the off chance that I lose (I can already picture Bucky covered with hanging chads), I'll find something to replace Les Mis if you prefer.

Dahlink -- June 16th is Bloomsday. Those of us who haven't made it all the way through Ulysses could probably finish it by then. And you might be able to slog through "Les Miserables" by Bastille Day (July 14th).

As much as I'm up for a reread of _Ulysses_, I don't think it'd be fair to start reading now. Wasn't the original question "Has read?" Past tense, no?

Double points to Laura Lee. And, Dave, bring it!

I clearly offended Not Leaving My Name and I am sorry about that.

I'm not. If you ain't leavin' your name, Babe, I couldn't care less about ya!

McI made me laugh outloud.

i believe dave should be able to give anyone who says they have read it a quiz. trust, but verify.

Lissa the Honorable, you're right. For those who haven't read Ulysses, it's too late to start cramming.
And howie, I agree. Anyone who claims to have read the book should answer this quiz: In a paper (no less than 20 pages, double-spaced) compare and contrast the notions of the nation-state and the individual as presented in Ulysses, the Odyssey and Les Miserables.

Knowing the breadth of Sandboxers I suspect that one (but probably not more) member can write the 20 page paper Mr Dave has requested (if it's not already in the archives.) Me, if Mr Wodehouse didn't write it, I've probably not read it.

I was told there would be no quizzes!

Actually, I could probably dust off those dusty test-taking skills and do this, except for the fact that I haven't read Les Miserables. The Odyssey, yes--and of course the Iliad (but not in the original Greek ...)

Dave, how about if I send you the 10 page paper I wrote in college comparing _The Bhagvad Gita_ and Machiavelli's _The Prince_ instead? I swear, I'd only had a few drinks the day I wrote it.

All this talk of papers is giving me PTSD flashbacks to the era of all-nighters.
As an alternative test, how about comparing and contrasting Jeeves and Gandhi in their non-violent approach to confronting the British aristocracy?

Bucky talked me through how to put the Ulysses poll up on the blog.

Go here to indicate if you have read it:

http://sanboxcontinuity.blogspot.com/

(Bucky said there is no way he would trust the results of this poll.)

Dave, that is too easy. Gandhi wasn't a butler.

Owlie,
"... when I was studying koine (NT) Greek at St. Mary's Seminary."

All my questions have been explained.

Point of order: Jeeves was a gentleman's personal gentleman, not a butler. Otherwise. Ms Lissa: got it in one.

Vote, people! So far we're doing well! (Is OMG allowed more than one vote?)

Of course, you are correct, RtSO. It has been some time since I read any of those.

All my questions have been explained

Now explain it to me. :)

I refuse to vote ever on anything. Self-selected polling is a waste of time. These polls are soul-stealing. Stop putting yourselves in little boxes. Have you ever met anybody likable named chad? I think not.

Dave, the question is so poorly constructed that to answer it would be to not answer it and wet yourself a little, The culture of books sucks.

This whole interaction with the book people is making us dumber and boring. This is an idea world not the flat monochrome false-dichotomy world of books.

This is childish. If you try to prove that you're cool, you just prove that you're not. Now I'm going to put another Bible in the fireplace, it's a little chilly here at the Owl Meat country house. I do love books, they keep me warm.

Smash all boxes. Drown the box makers.

P.S. Slap people in the face who say "bromance". Today.

Whoa. Calm down earlier self.

Who will be brave enough to admit to *not* having read Ulysses?

Thanks, Whizzy, for getting the poll up. (I had a Good Weekend. I was attacked by numerous large rainbow and brown (and even one cutthroat) trout, but I managed to subdue all of them.)

True confession (in response to Lissa's comment): I've never read Ulysses, unless Cliffs Notes count, which, if they do, then I've also read the entire works of Shakespeare.

Maybe, just to humor Owlie, I should put up a poll to see if Cliffs Notes count. Hahaha.

And one last thing...did you know that until the passage of the Automobile Information Disclosure Act in 1958, new cars didn't have to have window sticker prices? The salesman just told you what the price was. I heard that on the radio today, as I was gettin' out of Dodge just ahead of the Great Blizzard of '09.

Glad you subdued all those vicious trout, Bucky. They sound delicious.

When I worked reference, the one time I'd tell students to get the movie was with Shakespeare. He wrote *plays* (well, sonnets, too), and plays were meant to be seen, not read.

Lissa, I didn't read the about brave Ulysses but I do listen to the Cream song if that counts for anything.

Bucky, of course Clif notes count! It's how I got through almost every legendary book I was assigned in school. And, I actually read many of them - I just had NO idea what the hell I'd just read until Clif translated for me!

Joyce, you'd certain like the Molly Bloom section of _Ulysses_ (which isn't about the Greek).

Yes, Joyce, I'm with you on the proper use of Cliff notes. Read the book, then figure out what it was that you just read!

That's two people so far besides myself who have copped to not reading Ulysses, but only one other besides me has admitted such in the poll.

Who will be brave enough to admit to *not* having read Ulysses?

That would be vocational (well business) school educated (loosely used), me. Of course from what I've heard about the density and length of the prose, it would take me at least a decade to read. Not likely to do that, so I guess that makes me a barbarian.

RtSO -- it may be best to take Ulysses in small doses, a chapter at a time, and come back to the book after an interval spent on other reading pursuits. It's not like you're reading a murder mystery where you have to get to the end as quickly as possible to find out whodunnit. Come to think of it, the same approach might get you to warm up to the Ring cycle, starting with this Saturday's radio broadcast of Das Rheingold, which will be followed by a two-week break before they broadcast Die Walküre. ;-)

Enough already. Ulysses was an important book when it was published 87 years ago. It was sort-of revolutionary then; it is mainstream literature now. In fact it's a prerequisite for any study of literature. It's not that long and it's not that difficult. The stream of consciousness sections were more fully realized in Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man in 1916. It's just not a big deal now.

If you want a better experience, read Under the Volcano by Malcolm Lowry (1947). It owes much to Ulysses and is more entertaining and relevant.

The effects of Joyce, Eliot, and Beckett have come and gone long ago. They were the giants of the early part of the twentieth century. Their techniques and style were a part of the milieu, part of the bleeding edge of unravelling history. Time has passed and so have they.

If you don't know John Cage or Philip Glass or Pet Sounds or Daydream Nation it doesn't matter. The effects and influences are everywhere. Enough merit badges for prerequisites. Joyce took his techniques to their absurd and necessary conclusion with Finnegans Wake(1939), a book that I have been consuming like an 800 pound block of Gorgonzola since college. Even that doesn't deserve any self-congratulation. Sylvia Plath wrote her college senior thesis on it around 1953 (yes 56 years ago) and she turned out okay.

Aside to McIntyre: is there a name for words where their seeming opposite has the same meaning, such as unravel/ravel, unthaw/thaw, etc.?

Who will be brave enough to admit to *not* having read Ulysses?

Me. It was actually required for an English class (before I, too, became Vocational, RtSO) and I did start it, but it diidn't seem to be "going anywhere" so, like Bucky, I hit the Cliff Notes. I had a war to end. There are always sacrifices.

My name is ********* and I'm a non-Ulysses reader.

The English courses at my engineering college in the sixties were not noted for thrusting Great Works at us aspiring nerds.

Sylvia Plath turned out ok? Owl, I hope that was sarcasm!

Sylvia Plath wrote her college senior thesis on it around 1953 (yes 56 years ago) and she turned out okay.

As did her son, as reported in today's news.

Bad timing, habibi.

Dahlink, so when do I get that pint of Guinness?
p.s. Just to weight the responses further, count me among the non-Ulysses readers, too.

Dave, how many of the regulars on the readers' blog have read it?

Next up, _One Hundred Years of Solitude_...

Is it Pretentious Bastard Monday already? :-) Thanks for that bit of sciolism (yeah I get word of the day in my email too). What's an appropriate tip? The square root of hubris? or do I need my slide rule to calculate the blogarithm of pie? why don't you pay more attention to normal stuff like crab cakes? Everybody loves a crab cake.

This conversation reminds me that I got all the way through NJ public school thinking that one read because one loved to read and loved the stories being told. I got to college and it was, quite apparently, the Mission of the English department - who, it seems, are posting here - to make me despise reading. Although they were failures, to this very day, I have absolutely no interest in the symbolism of it all nor in any of the picyune nuances that these people used to justify their own existence.

(See, RtSO, vocationalism is good for someof us!)

It's all a journey of love for me. I just happen to find the most difficult journeys the most rewarding sometimes.

Pretentious would be running around declaring that _Pilgrim's Progress_ is the greatest book ever.

(It really sucked.)

Greatest book ever? Die Angst des Tormanns beim Elfmeter (The Goalie's Anxiety at the Penalty Kick) by Peter Handke.

Dave, there are four days left to vote, so you'll just have to wait. And besides, I still have a slim lead! Now if only all of OMG's personalities would deign to vote, it would be a landslide.

Lissa, hasn't everyone read One Hundred Years of Solitude?

OHYoS is overrated.

Dahlink, I would think so, but I've been sadly mistaken before.

The library director where my mother lived told her she was the only patron to finish it.

Why do people think OHYoS is hard to read? It was easy for me. I even read part of it in Spanish. Not like Ulysses.

I know what you mean Eve. I think the English department in college cured me of my love of reading. It was Faulknered to death.

_One Hundred Years of Solitude_ is fun. But people get all serious about it.

My most notable accomplishment as a reader was probably when I read the entire _Illuminatus Trilogy_ in one weekend.

I feel soooo inadequate. Thanks UMCP. But at least unlike men's basketball players, I graduated.

About a year ago I tried to take the easy way out, and I got Ulysses on CD. I knew I would never just sit down and read it, and I listen to quite a few books on tape for my commute. Yea, it sounded like a good idea. I made it to about the CD 2 out of 30 when I found myself looking for any excuse to turn to the radio: traffic update, weather forecast, right wing rant, WNBA scores, etc...

I just voted. It seems there are more of us (64%) who have read Ulysses than not so far. I tried to vote twice, because I had to read it twice(undergrad and grad school), but it wouldn't let me.

I remember people getting high at parties in grad school and reading the molly bloom part aloud in turns for kicks to see who could do it best. Yes, we were dorks.

But seriously, if this is going to be a literacy contest between the two blogs, I have to note that I tried to get into the book blog and it was a bit too scattered for me on topics, and there was precious little commentary among readers, and not enough attention directed to past works vs. present authors.

If I want to discuss any great literature or books, I'm happier to do it here, where everyone seems well-read from poetry to novels to philosophy to semiotics. You can't get that on the book blog, although you should be able to. It may just be that the book blog readers don't post, or maybe we are the people who should be posting on the book blog, but hang out here instead to see if Owl is wearing his trousers rolled.

Hey Dave - couldn't you do something conversation-starting once a week like - Is Stephen King a Hack? Madame Bovary - discuss. Should Anyone Bother with Faulkner? are Sci-fi and/or Mystery novels literature with a Capital-L? Was D.H. Lawrence gay? Did you know you can sing most of Sylvia Plath's poems to the tune of The Yellow Rose of Texas? (try it - I could not stop for death, but death it stopped for me...). Updike - jerk or not? Jeez, I could do this for hours.

BG, I was with you until Did you know you can sing most of Sylvia Plath's poems to the tune of The Yellow Rose of Texas? (try it - I could not stop for death, but death it stopped for me...). Ummm--isn't that our beloved Emily?

And I'll fess up--I have never read Faulkner.

Good catch, Dahlink. I threw that in there to see if anyone was paying attention. Proves my point about the literacy of this blog, yes? :)

I've tried to read Faulkner. Puts me to sleep every time. Can't stand him. Given a choice between having to read _As I Lay Dying_ and _Pilgrim's Progress_, I'd choose an unproud death.

Ulysses on CD? Ugh. What a waste. Just don't do it. It's a lie. Joyce is a visual writer. If you want to see an example of this see this poem on my blog.(Skip down to "Sub-Bourbon Dreams") The experience of seeing this is totally different than hearing it. Like Joyce (Finnegans-style) this bit of writing breaks the convention of linear writing – it is meant to be read and micro-re-read leaving one with a multi-dimensional state of chewy ambiguity. Let's not even get into Americans' intolerance of amibiguity (and therefore art). I'm not just blowing hot air here. I have my own theory and practice of poetics that I have put into practice. Have you? I thought not. Sorry, lots of time alone writing. You can't hear what he's writing unless it takes place in your own head. The visual double/triple entendres are destroyed when read aloud. I think most critics don't get Joyce. Yes, I just put myself above some Joyce critics, but it's so obvious that they don't get his wordplay and extreme ambiguity. blah blah blah

You are still a dork BG. :-) Did you know that dorq in Albanian means beautiful smart girl? For you I will wear my purple velvet trousers rolled always.

I looked at the books blog briefly and fled. When I looked at recent posts there were 3-5 comments on posts except for one which had 300+ comments – it was on Stephen King. LOL. What else do you need to know? Books are overrated. Book reviews like all reviews are an abomination of spirit.

BG you dorq, you suffer from the same delusion that I do, that people want to think and challenge themselves. They don't. This will all change when we buy our own island.

Owl Meat Geopolitical,

"when we buy our own island"

So you're going to start a new frakkin' civilization?

The irony of Ulysses on CD is akin to that of Beethoven composing his Ninth Symphony but never being able to hear it.

Longitudinal Laura Lee, I don't know how civilized it will be. Plus I imagine breeding a lot of manimals.

I'm sorry, but all I can think of right now is a little guy running and yelling, "It's de plane, Owlie, de plane!"

*a little guy running and yelling, "It's de plane, Owlie, de plane!"*

I don't get it.

"Jelcome to Fannnnnnn-tasy Island!"

*shudders*

Hey, look. I quit paying attention for a few hours and BAM! another century-mark post.

howie -- those who cannot remember the Seventies are condemned to repeat them. For more on Fantasy Island, from which the "Ze plane! Ze plane!" line derived, see here.

hmpstd,
I've always heard that if you can remember the Seventies, you weren't really there.

hmpstd - thanks. It was, indeed, "ze plane" not "de plane". If he had yelled, "de plane" everyone would have gotten off the aircraft.

The poll has closed.

A full 60% of the Sandbox regulars who took time to vote say they have read Ulysses.

That sounds like a majority to me.

Congratulations to Dahlink. It was an amazing amount of faith and trust she put in us.

Any true-born English major will refuse to take part in any survey of what he or she has "actually" "read." As it was said of Syracuse University when I was a graduate student in the English department, "it's built on a bluff, and operated on the same principle."

Actually, it's on a drumlin, but you grasp the principle.

Bucky, thanks. I will now reveal that I was sorely tempted to ask coworkers (people I was sure had read Ulysses but who were probably not regular Sandboxers) to vote, but I refrained. Of course I did check daily to see that the numbers were holding!

Dave, I believe you owe me a book. I think you have my email address from your own blog. Just to show you there are no hard feelings, if we run into one another some day I will gladly buy you a drink.

Yes, but I was an English minor.

PCB Rob -- actually, your quote was about the Sixties, not the Seventies. (Believe me, those of us who lived through the Seventies wish we could forget them, but can't.)

Thanks hmpstd.

I remember the 70s, having gone through high school and my first stint at college then.

On the lighter side, we had to endure disco and "Seasons in the Sun".

I just want to revisit this thread to report that even though Dave remains skeptical of the poll results, he was a gentleman and mailed me the prize book of my choice (I went for Andrea Wulf's "The Brother Gardeners : botany, empire & the birth of an obsession.")

He did sign his concession email with "Still thirsty," so I think I'll have to buy him a drink one of these days.

Thanks to all who voted!

Dave: I have some nice mountain land I'd like to sell you.