I believe the technical term for that kind of marketing dreck is "greenwashing." Because bottled water isn't green unless you are somewhere with unpotable water.

The water out of the tap in Iceland is better than 95% or more of the bottled waters in the US. I dream of that water.

I wish the city picked up recycle twice a week and trash every two weeks. I put out a lot more recycle than I do trash. When it is easier to throw out than to recycle, most folks will recycle. Only people with outsized soapboxes and no lives will recycle.

No matter what shape it is, doesn't it have to use the same amount of plastic if it's holding half a liter unless the whole thing is just thinner

No, actually. When I took calculus in high school (back in the dark ages, when we used slide rules), some of the problems we were asked to solve included things like "what dimensions to make a quart can to use the least amount of material".

Though you're right to be skeptical, I do believe that the correct shape, with enough folds and bends for rigidity can actually hold the same amount of water with less plastic. In fact, I think the water itself adds to the rigidity by exerting outward force. Notice how the newer water bottles tend to lose their shape a bit when empty.

Of course, if you're super-concerned with recycling, you could simply drink from the tap and not create the need for that bottle to exist at all.

Hey, I was given it for my special holiday luncheon treat. :-) EL

The shape allows PS to make the bottle out of thinner walls. Eons ago, Schlitz introduced a thinner walled aluminum can that was slightly taller. An Schlitz accountant figured out that if they thinned the walls (and curved the seamless bottom) they'd save a bajillion bux a year on aluminum costs.
But to hell with that.
A really good way to recycle PS bottles: fill them with tap water and toss 'em back in the fridge.

I have 3 Wegman's Spring Water bottles that have lived in my frig for about 3 years, now. They get refilled a couple a three times a day and I always have cold water to drink. I'd like to say I'm green, but its the green of money: I'm cheap. Oh, and I'm green, too.

They give you some bread, too, EL?

to Robert-- I actually heard that re-using those water bottles are not healthy because they become infested with bacteria faster. I'm not sure if the research was put out by water bottle manufacturers...but it would be worth checking out.

Sweet Fancy Vishnu, didn't any of you guys take geometry in 10th grade? This is embarrassing. Don't make me break out the formulae. 'Cause I'll do it. I would now but I need to find the next train to Philly. Euclid out.

And you guys are now giving out relationship advice to Kitkat? Shame on you. If you can't calculate the ratio of surface area to volume for a given geometric shape how are you going to ruin someone else's life properly? I am deeply disturbed by that sort of hateful logorhea. What if her boyfriend read the blog? I'm embarrassed to be a part of this community today. Judging others for fun, that's despicable.

water bottles are not healthy because they become infested with bacteria faster

Faster ... than .. what? Wash your body, wash your dishes, wash your freakin' water bottles. Not brain surgery.

You can wash dishes? What a concept. I just scrape them off before each use. Why is this useful information not printed on the dishes? I mean, my car has these LARGE stickers on the sun visors telling me of the dangers of the safety inspired air bags.

Okay, I'll come clean. When the black moldy stuff on the caps becomes too noticeable, I have (occasionally) dipped them in a bleach/water mixture. Seems to be good for about a year.

There were also rumours around that reusing those water bottles leached nasty plastic chemicals into the water. Which didn't pass the smell test to me, and, indeed, reusing water bottles doesn't lead to more nasty plastic chemicals in your water than the first fill does.

RtSO, I also use recycled water bottles to store tap-water in the frig. I have heard what Nakiya is referring to -- it was from a bottled water spokesman who was trying to emphasize that those bottles are designed "for single use only". While he certainly has an interest in limiting liability due to misuse of proprietary water bottles as well as continuing the revenue stream with sales of brand new bottles of water, I do think there may be legitimate concerns with reuse. As owl meat noted, the bottles should be washed out periodically. I personally do not use plastic for food or drink storage for a number of reasons. Plastic is harder to get clean than glass or ceramic. Tiny scratches can harbor bacteria and provide a rough substrate for foreign matter to cling to. If you are only storing water then these problems are not as apparent and may not actually be a problem. I went out and bought a few bottles of S. Pellegrino which I use for tap water storage. The bottles are glass and they have metal caps which are more durable than the plastic caps found on most other brands. My children like the smaller size bottles for personal use and I can place the larger one on the table for meals.

I vaguely recall that a sphere is supposed to provide the most volume for a given exterior surface area. Of course, a sphere isn't particularly useful as a water bottle unless one area is slightly flattened (so as to permit it to stand upright without rolling about), which will negatively impact the volume.

Bottled water comes comes with plenty of bacteria already. Since the vast majority of it is just filtered city water, meaning the bacteria-killing chlorine has been removed, it's a dumb thing to buy for your home. I use a Brita filter which effectively removes the chlorine flavor and I do not follow their schedule for replacing it. They just want to sell more filters. I replace it when the water has a chlorine taste.

Plastic bottles are great. They are light and convenient for travel around town. I wouldn't worry about plastic getting in your water. You should never use plastic containers to store anything acidic or that has any oil in it because the acids and oils will dissolve plastic. Even something like rice has oils in it and should be stored in glass.

I have a couple of bottles of water near my bed, desk and sofa at all times. I enjoy drinking it best out of an old Panna glass bottle. Why? It feels better.

I think Laura Lee is another Voice of Reason.

Bacteria! Run! I know a bartender who absolutely refuses to let me pour a new beer into the glass I used on the previous one. Refuses. He explained that I could get sick from the bacteria. I said yeah but it's just my bacteria and you can't get sick from your own saliva. Nope, no new glass for you. Meanwhile every newly washed glass smells like the poisonous disinfectant they rinse the glasses in. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Hmmm... I just happen to have a tasteful poem about Pinot Noir and saliva, maybe I'll put it on Owl Meat Apocrypha. It couldn't be any worse than Grackle Sandwich.

A product of the English school system also explained to me that if you drink a lot of alcohol every day you will never get sick because it kills all the germs. Good luck with that.

Down here, I am lucky because the local drinking water is quite good. As a matter of fact, several water bottlers get their water from nearby springs: Nestle and Zephyrhills are two that come to mind. I believe Dannon bottles water here too. About 15 miles north of here, there are many fresh-water springs.
Supposedly the quartz that is abundant around here filters the water for great taste and is what makes up our sugar white sands here.
I drink water from the tap most often, but have bottled water on hand because of the hurricane season. And I keep one on my bedside nightstand. Only because it has a cap.

Our household is with OMG -- Brita on the counter top (two during summer). We happen to like our water cool, not cold.

My traveling companions and I saw something pretty cool in Brattleboro, VT, last night. En route to White River Junction, we stopped to eat and found a very cool new place called Fireworks. Cool thing # 1 was that there were two "family" tables with eight seats each. The host explained that we three could sit there, but that there would probably be another couple or more that would sit at the table with us, and any interaction between parties was up to us.

Cool thing # 2 (and what is worth mentioning to this thread) is the way water was served. A standard sized wine bottle sat at each end of the table. Glasses were presented to us and we were told to serve ourselves as we wished. Once the bottle was empty it was whisked away and a full one put in its place. No pesky waiters dripping condensate from a large pitcher trying to pour into each glass, and no waiting for a refill when you needed one. We wondered out loud why we hadn't seen this before.

MD Canon,
I guess you have been treated to quite the winter storm up there. Hope you and yours are safe and warm!

I recall reading recently that the re-usable plastic bottle thing was chemical not biological. Somehow, if my feeble memory is right on this, more of some dangerous chemical leeches out into the water via dishwashing and re-use. I'm not sure though, maybe hmpstd knows.

Joyce W. -- the water bottle chemical leaching thing appears to be mostly an urban legend, at least according to Snopes.com.

Personally, I've reused plastic bottles and microwave trays for years, and it hsa'nt affffectde mmmme yte.

The chemical everyone is disturbed about is called bisphenol, and doesn't occur in the PETE plastics used for water bottles. It's in the harder polycarbonate hiking-style bottles. It's supposed to disturb hormones (it mimics estrogen), especially in small children. But still, it only leaches into water if it's been in the bottle for months or if it's heated. In fact a lrger source is the lining of cans. Apparently some baby products like bottles and sippy cups are made of the stuff, and people extrapolated the alarm to all plastic bottles, which just isn't true.

My sister gives her empty plastic bottles to the dog and it is a chew toy for a couple of hours.

Yes, that's exactly it -- the bottle is thinner! By reducing the amount of plastic in the walls of the bottle, while keeping its shape to hold the same volume of water, the Eco-Shape for Poland Spring has the least plastic content of ANY branded beverage container. When 70 percent of what we drink comes in a bottle or can, you're choosing a calorie-free drink in a bottle that's reducing its environmental footprint all the time. Please remember to recycle when you're through.

Did we just get an infomercial from Jane Lazgin? First the Wiener Police are watching us and now the Poland Springs cops?

Environmental footprint? Uh, doesn't it take up the same amount of space in a landfill?

Um...Jane, if you work for Poland Spring, it would have been polite to mention it. It would have gained you credibility and welcome here. Instead, you sound like a PR flack trying to pretend to be a civilian, which generally doesn't go over well here.

If you aren't affiliated with Poland Spring, my apologies. The "calorie-free drink" is not a way one hears water refered to outside of business.

Jane Lazgin, you really should reveal where you're coming from. Are you a Poland Springs employee? A Nestle employee? A distributor of Poland Springs?

Anonymous shills are frowned upon around here.

Upon further research, I can save Jane Lazgin the trouble and say that she's a spokesperson for Nestle.

Good work Hal. In the interest of full disclosure I would like to disclose Jane Lazgin's identity. Nestlé? Aw, another illusion burst.

I remember the Seinfeld episode where Mr. Pitt accidnetally gets ink on his upper lip and vows to take over Poland (by the) Spring.

------------------------------------------------------
Nestlé Waters North America Inc.

Jane Lazgin
jlazgin@perriergroup.com
Phone: 203-863-0240
Fax: 203-863-0215

Nestlé Waters North America brands include:
NESTLÉ® PURE LIFE®
ARROWHEAD®
CALISTOGA®
DEER PARK®
ICE MOUNTAIN®
OZARKA®
POLAND SPRING®
ZEPHYRHILLS®.

Nestlé Waters North America also imports Acqua Panna®, Contrex®, Perrier® and San Pellegrino® bottled water brands from Europe. For more information, please go to Nestle-WatersNA.com.

She'll never be back. She's just a drive-by PR flack.

How disappointing. Joe did it right, dropping by, saying who he was, maybe even getting an idea or two. Awesome, everyone wins.

If I cared more, I'd look up Jane's boss, and explain how much Internet users hate astroturfing.

Are we still boycotting Nestle due to baby formula or something? I know we were in Michigan because their Ice Mountain brand is coming out of the Great Lakes (indirectly, it hits a tap in there somewhere), and the Great Lakes states and province have spent way too much time and money fighting nefarious Californian plots to steal all our lovely, PCB-enhanced water.

Lissa, couldn't agree more about recycling. I hate it when there's only one recycling pick-up in a month, e.g., November and December. I have to hold the accumulated recyclables in the garage for four weeks.

RTSO, I've used the same plastic quart bottles for years. About once a week I fill them with water and drop in a few drops of bleach, then wash them with dish soap. When I read that it might be harmful to reuse 20 oz. plastic water bottles, I kept a few glass Snapple bottles--problem solved.

Lissa, IMHO, I think we should be boycotting baby formula anyway. When physicians and scientists have all agreed that breast milk is the healthiest thing for a baby, why this huge industry for formula - especially in third world countries.

No one has elected me to be Queen of the world yet though, sigh.

Joyce, I have been boycotting baby formula, for years. In fact, I've been boycotting motherhood, too. Alas, it hasn't seemed to make a difference.

No one has elected me Shekhina, either, which we all can be grateful for.

Lissa, yes, you've indeed done your part! I have to admit I googled "Shekhina" - certainly trumps Queen!

I'm here! Yes, I should have made clear that I do communications for Poland Spring, a brand of Nestle Waters North America. My name is Jane Lazgin.

I hope my unintentional slip won't take away from my desire to let my fellow bloggers know that Eco-Shape is the thinnest, lightest plastic bottle of any branded beverage bottle. That's a good thing when you want a calorie-free alternative near at hand that's easier on the environment.

And, agree that recycling should be easier for people. We're campaigning for stronger municipal recycling laws. Why not make the most of plastic by collecting it and re-using it for playground equipment, carpets, fleece or ... recycling bins?

We're committed to working with others to more than double the current PET beverage recycling rate to 60 percent by 2018.

You can hold us to that effort. Please take a look at our new 2008 Corporate Citizenship Report at www.nestlewatersnorthamerica.com, Corporate Citizenship, and the goals we are journeying toward.

Thank you for paying attention and for your questions.

Jane Lazgin

how much Internet users hate astroturfing.

Habibti, how about gastroturfing?

Hey Jane, if Nestle really gave a damn and wasn't just doing this as a marketing gimmick, wouldn't they use the thinner material for ALL their water companies, such as ...

NESTLÉ® PURE LIFE®
ARROWHEAD®
CALISTOGA®
DEER PARK®
ICE MOUNTAIN®
OZARKA®
POLAND SPRING®
ZEPHYRHILLS®.

Nestlé Waters North America also imports Acqua Panna®, Contrex®, Perrier® and San Pellegrino®

How does thinner material for the bottle reduce it's enviromental footprint. It takes up the same volume in the landfill. And stop saying "calorie-free alternative", we're not idiots.

[That sounded angry Owl Meat]

Low blood sugar.

Wow, this must be the post that prompted the bacon post by EL to calm us all down.

Lissa, funny you should comment on PCBs, (a riff on where I live) as several water companies bottle their water from springs not 20 miles north of here. Jackson and Washington Counties have several water companies there.

PCB Rob, I actually meant the fire retardant chemical PCB, which polluted the Great Lakes something fierce back in the late 70's or so.

Jane, nice try. Should have stopped after the first paragraph. Definitely after the second. But at least you admitted it.

Habibi, I love the term "gastroturfing". We must use it! Together, we can make the Urban Dictionary!

Joyce, glad you enjoyed the Kabbalah reference. Every so often, I just have to use my medieval Jewish theology courses, or I'll burst.

Hey Jane, if Nestle really gave a damn and...

Maybe they do. I took it that Jane does PR work for the Poland Spring brand, not for all of Nestle.

Bucky that's a trick question. Corporations don't care, they maximize profits. That's their function. And thinner material means lower shipping and lower material costs, so caring isn't much of an issue.

Aw, Bucky, maybe we need to dub you a "Voice of Reason" as well.

I did my bit by breast-feeding two little guzzlers. I'm done.

Corporations don't care, they maximize profits.

Technically, that's correct. A "corporation" is a legal entity, so it has no feelings or emotions.

But if you are using "corporations" as a synonym for "companies," trying tell that to, say, Ben & Jerry's. (Even after its acquisition by Unilever--like Nestle, another international food conglomerate.)

Ben & Jerry's isn't what it used to be. Neither is Tom's of Maine. And Whole Foods has some seriously nasty anti-competitive habits.

The function of a company is to make money to give to shareholders or owners. In theory, giving good service, not polluting the earth, having good value for money, etc. lead to more profit. Unfortunately, cheating, lying, greenwashing, etc. provide more bottom line today than building up a happy customer base.

This is why I hate the current library trend towards calling our people "customers." Customers are people you extract the maximum amount of money from in return for the least amount of effort or material. I like the old fashioned "patron." A patron is someone you give the maximum amount of goods or services to in return for the least amount of money.

Totally different mind sets there.

When I started in IT management we called our clients "users". I tried to get people to think of them as customers in order to give them better service. There was a saying that the only people who called their clients users were drug dealers and IT people.

I also find it vulgar to capitalize on good works. Doing something decent and then marketing yourself by those deeds is corrupt. Charity should be anonymous and without material reward. That's the Catholic atheist talking there.

OMGlock said:

How does thinner material for the bottle reduce it's enviromental footprint. It takes up the same volume in the landfill.

Actually, the new bottle design, with thinner material, and the non-cylindrical design does allow for less volume - if people crush them. Not that many people do, but the new design compresses inside itself fairly easily, and just replace the cap after crushing, and what was one approximately 55 cubic inches (1.5"x1.5"x3.14x8"), now only takes up approximately 15 cubic inches (1.5"x1.5"x3.14x2").

I'm surprised Ms. Lazgin didn't mention that.

I'm surprised Ms. Lazgin didn't mention that

PR flack + math = null set

[Oh, he took set theory in 7th grade. I am so impressed.]

Beav, maybe I'm missing something but you can easily crush the old bottles too. I do it all the time because I am super lazy and compacting empty contains means that I take out the trash less often. Regardless of shape, two bottles of equal volume will take up the same volume in a landfill whether crushed or not.

[How annoying is it that he always has to get the last word? I don't think his parents loved him.]

The best solution is to save up your trash and burn it.

[Now he's just being ridiculous]

Owlie, that is a very Jewish view of charity. See "mitzvah".

Owl: if you save your trash and burn it, then you are contributing to global warming and thus legitimizing Al Gore.
Good grief, we don't want to glorify that shyster!
Yes, let's recycle and cut back our footprint while he has a monster house and flies in a private jet. Hypocrite!!

The view is Catholic. It has a whole theological rationale but I just take the god out of it and give man his own portable dignity.

[Oh no, now he's a theologian.]

I don't know about the Jewish view in detail.

[I think he's an anti-semite.]

I do know that a Methodist once told me that charity was bad because it was like trying to bribe Jesus.

[I think he made that up.]

The Catholics stole so much from the Jews.

Isn't burning trash the most efficient way to recycle? All the elements go back into nature.

[Don't encourage him, it just makes him stronger.]

Al Gore is a great citizen of the world. We could all be a little more like him. And if you are great you should have a great house and the best camel in the kingdom or your own jet. It's only right, it says so in the Bible.

[He doesn't like Al Gore. I don't think that's in the Bible, but the camel does make it sound plausible.]

Gotta agree with you on the says so in the bible thing, Owl! My partner (reconciled - awwwww) says if people are going to pull out all of the prohibitions against gay marriage based on what the bible says then, we should be able to pull out all of it. Therefore, shouldn't one be able to have a few concubines or slaves?

BTW, laughing at the image of Al Gore in Arab garb riding a camel down Broadway.

Your internal conversation is very intense - you must be exhausted!

Lissa, I prefer the term "readers" for people who use the library myself.

Don't listen to my internal narrator, he's not reliable.

[Yes I am. You're the liar.]

Dahlink, it would never occur to me to call patrons readers, perhaps because I started working in libraries about when videos and books on tape starting hitting the PLs.

Especially not after a few years flying a reference desk. There was a huge sign right above the desk that said, shockingly, "Reference."

Guess what the most common question was...

One of the things that really surprised me years ago was when I found out that psych patients are referred to as "clients". As a matter of fact, I still find it odd. Why not just patients?

Um, the most common question, Lissa, was "Where are the bathrooms," right?

"Where is the reference desk?" The bathrooms were number 2 (no pun in tended) and xerox machines (located next to the bathrooms, which were next to the ref desk) was number 3.

Number 4 was parenting books, 5 was pet books, 6 was cookbooks and 7 was gardening.

I was always so happy when someone would ask something I had to look up.