Are there any wine absolutes anymore?
![]()
There's a discussion going on under the cassoulet post about whether you can drink white wine with duck.
I have to admit I didn't think wine aficionados still discussed the subject in such absolutes. It's kind of like the eclectic decor trend where you can mix 18th century antiques with mid-century modern and no one objects anymore. Or wearing jeans with a lace cami.
I'll bet I could put out the name of any dish here -- cheese souffle, lamb curry, roast suckling pig -- and a respected wine connoisseur would be able to suggest a white and a red that would go very well with it. Am I wrong?
(Glenn Fawcett/Sun photographer)








Comments
Personally, I would pick a bold Southwestern French wine (like Cahors (Malbec grape) or a milder red Buzet). Both come from the same region and will go along just great with a Cassoulet. They come from the same place for a reason. Right?
Posted by: Guillaume | November 10, 2008 12:05 PM
I would refer you and everyone else interested in matching food with wine to David Rosengarten's book Red Wine with Fish. The best way to determine great combinations is to experiment. Of course this involves massive wine consumption but the effort is worth it. The answer to your question is yes.
Posted by: Elite Elephant Lover | November 10, 2008 12:36 PM
Forgive me for being cranky today but I did something incredibly stupid yesterday and so I'm going to take it out on the blog. Yes you are wrong. White wine with lamb curry? I dare someone to come up with a white that goes with lamb curry and not some crazy wine no one has ever heard of - that means you EEL. 8>)
I used to ask bartenders ridiculous questions that I thought were obvious jokes like, "What kind of wine would suggest with nachos?" Then they would think about it and I would apologize. Seriously, what kind of wine would go with nachos?
And what's with Sangria? Why why why? You take a crappy wine and make it worse. I just don't get it. How did it become so popular in non-Spanish restaurants and bars. It's not like it's because of advertising. In all the time I've spent in Spain I don't think I've ever seen it being drunk there.
Posted by: owl meat guapo | November 10, 2008 12:57 PM
I will ignore the personal attack and state that a southern French white like a Cote du Rhone Blanc or a white blend from the Languedoc would go with lamb curry. Do these wines qualify as wines no one has heard of? Go to the Wine Source and ask for these wines and the clerks will lead you to some excellent choices. I do suggest searching out the Kermit Lynch import label. Have a pleasant day.
Posted by: Elite Elephant Lover | November 10, 2008 1:54 PM
There's only one wine absolute and it is also known as the first rule of wine drinking - drink what you like. If a diner prefers white over red, then a sommelier should be thoughtful, creative and forward-thinking enough to suggest one that complements the dish. Either way, even if the wine doesn't complement the dish itself, the diner wins if s/he still enjoys the wine. Simply stated, wine should be accessible and enjoyable. To limit oneself to specific wine varietals with equally specific dishes is just plain boring and there's no fun in that.
Posted by: SGI | November 10, 2008 1:59 PM
omg, what does the 8>) after my initials mean? Wine with nachos? Cahors if beef is involved. A white blend from the Languedoc if there is chicken instead of beef.
I drink wine every night with all types of food. Beaujolais and eggs. Cahors and Nacho Cheese Steak Gorditos. Chinon with pepper steak and many different Asian dishes. etc., etc., etc. Always remember good food goes with good wine even if you have to take a bite of bread between the two.
Posted by: Elite Elephant Lover | November 10, 2008 2:15 PM
I asked The Google what wine goes best with lamb curry and got these results:
Columbia Crest Merlot
champagne
Alsatian Gewurztraminer
merlot
Oregon Pinot Noir or a red Burgundy, preferably from the Cotes de Beaune region (seriously is coat de bone a real place?)
Muscat table wine from Sonoma County
Posted by: owl meat goulet | November 10, 2008 2:26 PM
The information the wine club sends me suggests that you drink whatever wine you like best with a particular dish.
Although on the descriptive wine cards that accompany the bottles, they use symbols on the backs of the cards which foods pair best with a particular bottle.
Posted by: PCB Rob | November 10, 2008 2:32 PM
I believe the answer to the question is "Jack's Bistro". Or "world peace". One or the other.
In the other discussion I wasn't objecting to anyone drinking white wine with duck. I just found it odd that someone seemed to think it strange to drink red wine with duck.
Posted by: Hal Laurent, VoR | November 10, 2008 2:34 PM
Sorry EEL no personal attack intended.
8>)
is my personal version of :-)
signifying (it's a smiling owl) that I'm joking around with you. I bow to knowledgeable winos, urh, oenophiles. 8>)
Posted by: omg | November 10, 2008 3:06 PM
pcb, you have wine Garanimals? Cool.
Posted by: omg | November 10, 2008 3:19 PM
I would differentiate between wine food compatibility which can be very broad and personal and wine match (complementary) which tends to be more specific. I also subscribe to the notion of complex wine/simple food, siimple wine/complex food. More importantly, I pay attention to what NOT to drink with certain food. There is a whole list of 'wine killers': asparagus, avocado, grapefruit, mint, etc. My most unpleasant experiences have been certain reds with sushi and wasabi/soy sauce, and shrimp cocktail with horse radish/cocktail sauce with certain whites.
Posted by: Dan D | November 10, 2008 3:33 PM
I get it now. It really does look like an owl.
Posted by: Elite Elephant Lover | November 10, 2008 4:18 PM
Good one, Hal!
Posted by: Eve | November 10, 2008 4:42 PM
I think there was an informal contest to make up your own cartouches in the spring. Some of them were pretty good.
Aw, it was one of my Funtastic Thursdays featuring Snickers. What a coincidence:
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/dining/reviews/blog/2008/05/mystery_product_thursday.html
Terrier Mom excellent
~╥╥☺
omg lame:
|8>↨≡)╡
|8>{≡}╡
voodoopork with pork pie hat
■| :O)
Rev'Ed
◊ O╣≡≡╣
Pierre with his tricouleur
J'♥▓░█
I see Bourbon Girl posting but no cartouche. I'm a little sad. But I didn't know her then.
Voodoo pork's kind of lame one for Amanda C
1♂da8
Amanda C. frying bacon (voodoopork)
(≈)─
^^^
Exiled Rock Chicklet
♫♣♀♫
Piano Rob - very clever
|'|'| |'|'|'| | |
Robert (the Single One) very zen
l
Robert of Cross Keys
♂†ЪЪ
There's a lot of new regulars since May, maybe some of them will make up their own personalized cartouches. I like VDP's best.
Posted by: omg | November 10, 2008 4:57 PM
omg,
Yeah, my wine garanimals are way cool.
As a newbie to fine wines, I just open the next one in the case sometimes, unless a guest suggests a particular wine.
As for cartouches, I guess I haven't figured out how to do symbols in a blog comment.
Posted by: PCB Rob | November 10, 2008 5:54 PM
Hey, speaking of missing folks, where are all the other Roberts?
for that matter, the Girls are kinda scarce too.
Posted by: PCB Rob | November 10, 2008 5:56 PM
I caught the end of The Splendid Table on WYPR Saturday afternoon and they had an interview with Ed Soon, a wine expert and author from Singapore, discussing what wines go with Oriental foods. The upshot was to pick the wine based on the the flavors and sauces in the dish rather than the type (or absence) of meat.
Posted by: Retired in Elkridge | November 10, 2008 7:19 PM
I can't even link, much less cartouche. I do like that line from Harry and Sally (or whatever it was called) when Billy Crystal says he thinks the cartouches where actually an ongoing comic strip about a character named Sphinxie.
Maybe everyone has gone south for the winter... sigh!
Posted by: Joyce W. | November 10, 2008 7:54 PM
I only drink red wine. I try to match the character and body of the red wine with what I'm eating, and if it really doesn't work, then I drink beer or bourbon.
I've had lots of red variations with dishes (especially fish) that were traditionally only supposed to go with white wine, and the red was perfectly fine. I don't believe in the red/white rules anymore. They're just not true.
But regarding duck, and wine rules - I always heard that red wine should be served with game meat.
Posted by: Bourbon Girl | November 10, 2008 9:38 PM
So I'm sitting here in a hotel in Mission Viejo staring up at the wall trying to remember the name of the really terrific $3.50 Pinot Blanc we used to get from some small Eastern European communist country decades ago that was fabulous with duck (and also smoked sausage -- maybe there was some other grape in there too) ... and there on the wall is a reproduction of a photograph of a boat race. It's a couple of boats, and don't they just look like Chesapeake log canoes, and hey, the two guys in one boat have plain t-shirts on, just like in a photo by ... hey this is the photo by A. Aubrey Bodine!!
I appreciate good customer service, but this is way over the top!
Posted by: MD Canon (In the OC on the Left Coast this week) | November 10, 2008 11:24 PM
As for the other Roberts I do not know. As for the Girls, I'm thinking of a pillow fight. Come on, it's late.
Posted by: omg | November 11, 2008 12:56 AM
Cinnamon Girl is here. I don't drink wine (makes me very sleepy), so I have nothing to add.
MD Canon, you are in my hometown! What brings you out there? When I lived there, it was all houses and a mall.
Posted by: cinnamon girl | November 11, 2008 9:14 AM
Bourbon Girl, I did a blind tasting once, I mean totally blind with eyes closed. And I couldn't tell the difference between a Pinot Noir and a full bodied white (Chardonnay), served in the same temperature.
Posted by: Dan D | November 11, 2008 9:25 AM
Sorry about the absence, I was in Richmond this weekend where I found a great little French bistro named Can Can , and I had some wonderful meals at the Hotel Jefferson, including their renowned Sunday brunch.
Oh, and as for wine with nachos, I'd go with Reunite with ice, so nice.
Posted by: Robert of Cross Keys | November 11, 2008 10:05 AM
Cinnamon Girl: here for a training seminar with our purveyor of demographic data. After driving around some last night, it seems to be alternating strip malls and office parks. Lots of road construction as well.
Dan D: once upon a time Chardonnay was known by its fuller name, Pinot Chardonnay, so I am not surprised by your blind tasting reports.
Posted by: MD Canon (In the OC on the Left Coast this week) | November 11, 2008 10:59 AM
MD Canon: You're right. Also, both these grapes from Burgundy are used to make champagne, individually or in combination.
Posted by: Dan D | November 11, 2008 12:12 PM
Pinot Chardnnay? How many Pinots are there? Are they different colors? Are they really related or does Pinot have some regional meaning. What about Pinot Grigio vs Pinot Gris? Ooops, gotta go, here comes Jesus (the pool boy) with a box of Franzia and some chalupas. It's terriermom time!
Posted by: terriermom ~╥╥☺ | November 11, 2008 1:54 PM
terriermom--aren't Pinot Grigio and Pinot Gris essentially the same thing?
Nice to see your cartouche back again.
Here's mine (we have kittens!)
^^ ^^
Posted by: Dahlink | November 11, 2008 3:49 PM
I think they both mean Pinot Gray in French and Italian, but isn't it weird that Pinot is pronounced in the French manner for the Italian grape? I forgot about my little terrier sign that my daughter made. Love the kittens -- how clever. I wish I had more time to learn about wine. It seems like people spend a lifetime doing it and barely scratch the surface.
Posted by: terriermom ~╥╥☺ | November 11, 2008 4:49 PM
I thought Absolute was a vodka!!!
Posted by: Hue | November 11, 2008 5:00 PM