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November 29, 2008

Is topic drift bad?

While I'm calling attention to comments, I wanted to mention one that just posted from someone I don't think we've heard from before:

I like the blog topics and all but when I get about 5 comments in and everyones little chats and injokes and topic drift comes out, my eyes glaze over and I realize its not worth it for me trying to figure it out -- which I guess is fine for you all already in the blog, but I would imagine detracts from new posters.

I like this comment because it's just so darned tactful. In the past we've gotten a couple of comments about topic drift. They sounded so angry -- is it really worth getting angry over? -- and so like personal attacks on the drifters (I imagine the posters didn't think about how they would sound) that they were scorned and ignored by other commenters. That's too bad, because it's certainly a point of view worth discussing. Here are a few things to consider: ...

* There are very few rules on this blog, and the ones there are are almost all of my own making. Topic drift isn't something that bothers me in the least because a) I think we'd get bored just discussing food, and b) food is connected to so many things in so many ways it would be difficult to disentangle them.

* I don't understand why topic drift is such a problem for some folks, and I would like to hear their point of view. Here's mine: We don't have space limitations. I mean, of course the space isn't infinite, but it isn't like the print edition. So I like to think you can skip the comments or commenters that bore you and move on to the next one without much trouble.  What's the downside of doing that?

* I get as bored by the stupid or really obscure stuff as the next person, but I just ignore it and hope it goes away. I hope other readers will do the same for me when I'm being stupid or obscure.

* I'm sorry if some new people feel that because there are in-jokes they can't join in. All of us were new here once, some of us more recently than you might think. (See Eve and Bucky.) Polite and/or funny newcomers seem to get welcomed in pretty regularly by other posters, it seems to me. Pretty soon they're contributing to the in-joke, or just asking what it means and someone else explains it. 

 

Posted by Elizabeth Large at 2:23 PM | | Comments (77)
        

Comments

I agree totally. When I first joined the blog community here, there was lots I didn't "get". I either asked (and it was explained to me) or just moved on to the next comment.

I am with you totally on topic drift. If the comments stuck strictly to food and restaurants, it would get kinda old. Topic drift can be really fun sometimes. I can't count the number of times a particular comment made me laugh out loud.

I hope RSTB reconsiders and hangs around for awhile. There is a lot of camaraderie and the wealth of different opinions and experiences makes this blog such a great place to visit. Plus, you can ask questions about almost anything food-related and someone on here will answer it for you.

I will begin by saying that this and You Don't Say are the only blogs that I frequent. So, my experience and opinion may not please blog purists, oh well. The way that D@L has evolved is that it is an almost real-time conversation. For those of us who have been here for a while we know each other and, yes, we have inside jokes and sometimes speak in code. It's like real life when you talk to friends. Also, you only hear snippets of conversation that make no sense. In addition there are class clowns, serious folk and those who contribute useful knowledge on whatever twists the conversation may have taken.

So, RSTB, I hope you stick around and become part of the group. Perhaps Ms Laura Lee will comment about being a newbie. Although a lurker for quite a while, one timid comment solicited a number of encouraging remarks. Ms LL has become a regular contributor and has even written haikus.

I'll end by saying that if we are not a blog as you feel the blog should be, I'm sorry. However, if you look at us you will see (from a post a week or so ago) that without any attempt at scientific accuracy there are something like 50 regular contributors who can be named from memory. The number of comments that any topic receives is almost always more than one or two and can frequently be several score. I don't know how any blog limited to restaurant news and the food industry could hope to have that level of participation. This week we had a post on the demise of several local restaurants. It was interesting news (that could have been covered in Table Talk) and solicited a couple of comments. If the blog kept that kind of focus it would certainly be limited to only a few posts per week and not many more comments.

As an infrequent blogger (but a daily reader), I like the sense of community of the regular bloggers. It is okay with me if I don't get the inside jokes. Topic drift can happen anywhere. Think about the last conversation you had. Did all parties remain on point? Probably not. Nothing in life is perfect. How bored would we all be if it were?

I like topic drift. We have a strange bunch at the Sandbox, and I love to see where the topics veer off, and how they veer off. I always read a comment that makes me LLOL, and that is valuable to me!
Now, speaking of topic drift, here is a cute joke. See, it's food related, because the joke is about squirrels:

There were five houses of religion in a small Texas town:
The Presbyterian Church, the Baptist Church, the Methodist Church , the Catholic Church and the Jewish Synagogue.

Each church and Synagogue was overrun with pesky squirrels.

One day, the Presbyterian Church called a meeting to decide what to do about the squirrels. After much prayer and consideration they determined that the squirrels were predestined to be there and they shouldn't interfere with God's divine will..

In The BAPTIST CHURCH the squirrels had taken up habitation in the baptistery. The deacons met and decided to put a cover on the baptistery and drown the squirrels in it. The squirrels escaped somehow and there were twice as many there the next week

The Methodist Church got together and decided that they were not in a position to harm any of God's creation. So, they humanely trapped the Squirrels and set them free a few miles outside of town. Three days later, the squirrels were back.

But -- The Catholic Church came up with the best and most effective solution. They baptized the squirrels and registered them as members of the church. Now they only see them on Christmas , Ash Wednesday, Palm Sunday and Easter.

Not much was heard about the Jewish Synagogue,
but they took one squirrel and had a short service with him called circumcision and they haven't seen a squirrel on the property since.


Here is a link to a picture especially for PCB Rob, although everyone should get a kick out of it!

Here is a link for PCB Rob and everyone else.
I forgot to add the caption to the first post. Sorry EL!

The caption is:

For all who appreciate the outdoors . .. .. the rarely photographed South Florida Squirrel.

RSTB's comment is very tactful, indeed, and for that reason alone he/she should visit often and participate. We cannot have too many thoughtful, tactful people in the Sandbox.

I do understand the problem with topic drift (says one its biggest instigators).

Several of us have taken shots at Z on TV because when Dr. Z started it, we expected a television blog, but got (my opinion) a political blog. I expect that is likely how someone drawn to this blog by its description over at blog central ("The Baltimore Sun's Elizabeth Large blogs about local restaurants") feels when they click into the Sandbox. I understand that. I don't know what to do about it, but I do understand how off-putting it can be to expect one thing but find something different.

As to the in-jokes, I also understand RSTB's frustration there; hell, it took me a couple of months before I figured out there was an Owl Family and to understand how THAT plays out here on a daily basis. I just barged right ahead because that's my personality. It isn't everyone's however.

Finally let me says this to RSTB: if its any consolation, there are a lot of jokes here that I don't get either.


The most enjoyable aspect of topic drift is just how natural it seems. It never feels like someone with agenda is able to steer the conversation; rather the conversation just flows to things like politics, religion or Haiku.

As to the inside jokes, I wouldn't feel too badly about not getting them. I've been here since the beginning, and I only get about 20%.

I like the topic drift, but I would. I also recognize that the injokes and such can look very uninviting to someone who is new to the blog. All we can do is keep welcoming folks, and make encouraging comments.

Frequently, I look at this for a quick break. If I get a chuckle, that relaxes me and I can go back to work or whatever with a better attitude and a bit more energy. So, the jokes and the drift help.

It doesn't take long to become a regular here. I haven't been here that long. Bucky hasn't, and he's practically got a sub-let on posts.

I hope we don't stop welcoming folks inside, and that the folks just joining in do join in, introduce themselves and quote an obscure early 80's English B-side.

Cosmo Girl, I loved that joke!

RSTB, I did read this blog quite a while before commenting. Topic drift is probably one of the reasons I find this blog so interesting. Of course it may not be for everyone and that's OK. EL is a very tolerant and accommodating host so maybe you can just stick around for a while. And don't worry if you don't understand the hieroglyphics, none of us do but we're hoping to find out very soon. I trust that hampstd will crack the code or OMG will reveal all. BTW, is your first name Robert?

Great joke, Cosmo Girl (nee Janet)!

I was wondering that, too, Laura Lee. He could just be a new member of the League of Extraordinary Roberts.

Rosebud,
why thank you! Exalting us Roberts with such a lofty name. Bucky gets honorary status since he is also Robert from the TBRS.

See, there in an inside comment that an occasional viewer might not "get", but just ask and it will be explained.

As for RtSO's comment, not sure where I fall, probably sometimes class clown and sometimes contributing useful info.

As one of the Baltimore ex-pats, this blog is a great way to keep in touch with what is going on in Charm City, especially when we visit and want to know the latest and greatest on the dining scene. And when I visit, I'm always wanting to go out to eat .

My take on topic drift is this: if I like where the blog is drifting, I will hop on the raft and enjoy the current. If I don't, I will interrupt with whatever I want to say -- often with a post that begins "Back to ..."

But one of my bad habits (besides eating foreign crab cakes) is wanting to add my two cents about restaurants that I find when I'm on the road. I found a "star" tonight -- a place that I would rate 4 stars for food, 4+ for service and 3 1/2 for decor, if I'm understanding EL's standards rightly. The Orchid Garden (almost within sight of the Olive Garden that it is mocking) was actually an old Applebys, according to my server. Even after a long week in Orange County, I have to say that this "Asian Cuisine" restaurant had better, hotter, fresher offerings than I had on the left coast. No web site that I could find, but take I-70 to I-81N and then take the first exit, passing the mall and going just past the Lowe's.

Cosmo Girl ...

A version of this that I particularly like substitutes Episcopalians for Catholics (but reduces the appearances to Christmas and Easter only) and substitutes for Catholic that the squirrels immediately found their birthrate dropped from six baby squirrels to two in the next generation, evidently having perfected the "rhythm method" at long last.

Hal -- I think Cosmo Girl was actually née Susan (as in Susan WNAJ or WSNAJ). Rosebud was née Janet.

I understand that. I don't know what to do about it, but I do understand how off-putting it can be to expect one thing but find something different.

Expecting one thing and getting another has been the story of my life!

if its any consolation, there are a lot of jokes here that I don't get either.

Hell, Buck, I don't get most of the "in" stuff. I just pretend it's not there.

There's an Owl Family??

I enjoy the drift myself (and am surely responsible for some of it). Sometimes some of the more obscure posts or funny responses are so witty, I find myself boring my partner with it at night. I don't always get all the inside jokes being on the "newer" side too, but I don't object to them. There's enough other stuff to read around the stuff I don't get that I find very entertaining.

I'm one of the regular reader, hardly ever comment types.
Would someone please explain the "sandbox" reference to me.
Thanks much.

Hmpstd, you're quite right. Thanks for the correction. And, unlike me, you weren't too lazy to put the accents on the e's.

BudJ, the sandbox is this blog. It is a term some use, and some (notably our owlish friend) hate.

I think it's a question of balance. I've seen message boards taken over by insiders full of in-jokes, and it's death. Without new people, any online community will die. When the comments become so arcane that there's no real conversation for people to join in, they will just move on.

Some of it is ok, and even useful, but when it strangles actual dialogue then the choices are to weed some of it out or watch your community wither and eventually die.

BudJ: someone ( it may have been Owl Meat, but thanks to the blog's crackerjack search, I can't find the original reference) named the home of D@L the sandbox. We are all resident's of the Sandbox, probably because of our raging immaturity and refusal to stay on topic for any length of time :-)
El is the Queen, and her Queendom is the Sandbox. We are her loyal subjects.

BudJ -- the Sandbox is the official (more or less) name of the community of D@L posters and readers. If I recall correctly, the name arose out of somebody's admonition that we posters should play nice in the sandbox with each other. Assuming that your query was your first post, you may now consider yourself an official (more or less) member of the Sandbox (although I daresay that readers who have not yet posted should also feel welcome in the Sandbox).

Food is life.

Language is mind.

Thoughts that stray from a stated topic reflect an environment that embraces freedom and ambiguity.

We are the life of the mind which thrives in freedom. Freedom is messy.

Some hate freedom because it leads to the unknown and unknowable. That is exactly why others love it.

One person's anxiety is another one's thrill. One person's well-defined area is another one's cage.

One person's sandbox is another one's metaphorical coffin.

“Intolerance of ambiguity is the mark of an authoritarian personality.”
-- Theodor W. Adorno

I have said too much. I feel dirty.

One of my many faults is that when I read a post I often come up with some off-the-wall and usually off topic response. Most of the time I just checkle to myself, but sometimes I post anyways, remembering Tweety's oft-spoken comment "If I dood it I get 'panked. I dood it." So 'pank away.

Cosmo Girl,
I liked that picture, thanks!

someone ( it may have been Owl Meat, ... named the home of D@L the sandbox.

=> metaphorical coffin

Thanks for the varied responses!
I was guessing that the description that "hmpstd" gave as far as "playing nice in the" was somewhat in the ballpark.
And Owl meat?? you're a "hoot"!!
Great reading!
While I love to eat good grub, my interest of things I know nothing about, like reading reviews about places I'll never eat at serving food I've never heard of gives me vicarious pleasure.
Sure as hell beats reading the anger and BS on the local and National boards.
Happy Holidays to all! Thanks for the entertaining diversion from lifes daily pressure filled crapfest.

Oh no, you've pulled omg from his holiday pit of despair, away from his retreat into Boolean hieroglyphs and back into the world of words before he was ready. Now we'll have six more weeks of glyph winter or maybe just surly ranting.

For me other blogs are boring. They are more like graffiti walls. There's no interaction. Just a lot of shouting into a canyon.

People who dislike the expansive free nature of the conversation here probably have a certain personality that is better suited elsewhere. I think this blog clearly has a personality. And that's good. Few have one that's palatable or interesting.

A meal is not just food, it's people, conversation, the surroundings, your memories, well almost anything human. I don't get a lot of jokes, so what? Some topics are boring and i skip them, except when someone veers off into something more interesting. This is a very different experience than it was a year ago. Now it's an interactive community.

You might get 100 comments on french fries or potatos chips, but do the "I hate off-topic" people really enjoy reading one line comments like:
-- I like Snurpy's BQQ Lite chips.
-- The Sporkmyers Salt and Vinegar chips in Atlanta are the best.
-- I used to like Yertle's Salty Treat chips when I was in the Cub Scouts, but now they are too salty for me.

A friend of mine who blogs here believes that this is an interactive novel of which he is a character and an author. Think about it.

This blog is Proutian.

(There's your comment of the week.)

Correction: duh

This blog is Proustian.

(There's your comment of the week.)

Topic drift? Get serious. Debate Club was boring in high school. Kill-joys.

I like the drifting. As a naturally curious person, my philosophy of life is "always be looking for what your not looking for". Newspapers, in their old form, used to be great for this with the use of off the wall articles to fill the open white space. The internet can be be quite focused on what you are looking for. Now, reading Newsweek and listening to NPR provide the best way of running into something I'm not looking for. The sandbox provides another interesting opportunity.

MD Canon,

Should your travels ever involve driving on I-68 through WV and points west, consider stopping in Bruceton Mills WV and in particular, Twila's restaurant. It's a family owned restaurant that specializes in "real" food. Everything is made on premises including bread, rolls and pies daily. We left NVa at 0630 heading back to KY so we were there about 0930 and had breakfast ( which they serve all day 7am-10pm, M-Sat and 10am -10pm Sunday) Real potatoes in the home fries and hash browns and the sausage patties were made from bulk sausage; eggcellent!

Oh for the Love of God, please, PLEASE, don't assign naming rights to the Sandbox to the Raptor, himself. If there is anyone who truly hates the term is the the Feathered One. For good or ill, it was me.

I was going to comment on topic drift; however, while thinking of something to write I ended up in my thought drift. The past 30 minutes have been spent watching old RC Cola commercials on YouTube. Apparently RC had an Ad campaign in which they called themselves the MAD MAD Cola, which brought me back to this blog and the conversation to Mad Men. So you, see even when things drift, they eventually come back.

VDP - I sat here staring at the cork-lined walls trying to figure out "Proustian" from "Proutian", I was about to google when I saw your followup post.

Owl, As Tom Robbins would say "if it gets sloppy, eat it over the sink." Actually a particular charactor would say that but if named I might be accoused of Asian prejudice by those unfamiliar with Robbins work.

Off to see Odette!

Oh for the Love of God, please, PLEASE, don't assign naming rights to the Sandbox to the Raptor...

:)

What does Proustian mean in this context?

Yay, Owl Meat has his words again. Owlie, whatever is bothering you just rant it out. You must have been born in Spring with all that excess wood energy. You will feel better and some of us (boo to the on-topic gestapo) might even enjoy it. It's cheaper than therapy. My favorite rant was on coffee drinking slow pokes at the farmer's market (can I find it? Why can't I search for anything?)

A ha! Found it under No Live Animals Allowed ... as Owl Meat KillSwitchEngaged:
http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/dining/reviews/blog/2008/09/no_live_animals_allowed_and_th.html

I just read it again and it cracks me up.

"Mmmmm..... slurpity slurp slurp, ahhhh, mmmm, shuffle stutter-step stop linger start stop wandering in your addict's haze and narcissistic dark roasted egoism"

You're like the Bukowski of Dining@Large. That whole paragraph is pure word magic. Give us more please.

cork-lined walls

Would this be a precursor to a padded cell?

Proustian? Well, I'm no expert on Proust or his writing. I suppose it could mean that people write of their forbidden love for other men and then before they post it, they change the name Steve to Turducken. But that's not what I meant.

[That was a joke anti-drifters and newbies. It references a story that I heard that said that all of Proust's love scenes were written about other men and the names were changed to women's names for propriety.]

I meant that the topics are like the madeleine (sp?), the little cookie that supposedly opened up Proust's (or was it one of his character's) mind and a flood of memories rushed into his consciousness.

[Not too drifty since it involves a cookie.]

How could people be against anything mind-expanding? I like it when people doggedly stick to two or three different threads of thought in a single post. Lot's o' fun.

If you're listening to Killswitch Engage and going to the farmer's market, you have a screw loose dude. That's totally not harmonious behavior.

You should crank up some Coal Chamber (Sway) (caution, mf used) and go shopping for puppies . I'd liek to see that. I'm totally getting kicked out for being off message here. Who cares.

Eve - absolutely!

"Like many intellectuals, he was incapable of saying a simple thing in a simple way" - a goodie from Proust

"Tune in, turn on, drop out"- Timothy Leary - NOT against anything mind expanding.

Pertinent to nothing (I hope), I just sampled my first attempt at braised rutabagas and I'm getting a pleasant, unexpected custard finish.
Onions, garlic, salt, pepper, a dash of basil and a suggestion of rosemary are the accompanying elements. Also used a touch of butter and a moiety of bacon juice.
Does that make any sense? (Not the bacon juice, the custard finish.)

Ah, yes - "The love that dare not speak its name," as Oscar Wilde once put it.

Know what I love about this blog? Pretty much everybody's loose, and some of the funniest comments are off-topic. Invariably that's when I read something that makes me laugh out loud! PLEASE keep it up!

Well.. its funny because I was scrolling down the main blog and I wanted to see if anyone wrote anything so in my half asleep mind I say "okay click on the comments on the blog post about comments".. and I see people referring to me, and Im scrolling up and down thinking "where is my ORIGINAL comment??" and then I realize that a whole new post was created just for me, haha!

Anyway this blog was brought to my attention because the restaurant I work at was reviewed recently (to add to the mystery DUN DUN DUNNNNN) so I started reading every now and again, scanning the comments for any mention, which I guess is why I would think to myself "okay theyre talking about girl scout cookies now, time to move on".

I guess also that I read many other forums (not just food or baltimore etc) that are more policed than others, and generally, going off topic is a big no no.

So I guess when I approach a forum/blog, I see it as a book or news article, whereas Im guessing you all see it as a conversation amongst friends (not that Im against that).

Also, my name isnt Robert but my brother's name is. ;)

jl, that makes perfect sense. You've got a bit of fat in there, and rutabagas can be very smooth (one of the reasons they mash well).

That sounds like a really good way to cook them. I'll have to try it. I love rutabagas. I swear I'm going to cook a meal of nothing but neglected delicious winter root veggies.

LEC,

Thanks for your recommendation of Twila's to MD Cannon. I travel that way frequently and it's always nice to have good restaurant ideas.

Unfortunately, we'll have the dog with us when we travel that way at Christmas, so we'll be forced to eat something disgusting from a drive-through.

How do I do this without seeming like a pain in the butt? Nope, going to be a pain.

a touch of butter and a moiety of bacon juice.

1) Bacon juice? That's not a thing. Would that it were.
2) Moiety? That doesn't make sense. Plus you made me look it up.

Oh, good. Bird's back!

Project Voluntary Aphasia and Project Crypto-Glyph are over.

LEC ... Thanks for the Twila's recommendation. I will have to manufacture a reason to get out past Garrett County sometime soon.

It isn't really topic drift; it's more stream-of-consciousness or maybe word association.

The Proust reference could also simply allude to the length of Proust's works which, by their nature, involved so many characters. I think I'm on page 723.

Welcome back Owl!

I'm gonna try that turkey ham next, that Godshall's meat rocks!

Yeah the turkey ham is good. I've been whittling away at mine for a while.

I'm going to confess that I own all seven volumes of the Proustian masterpiece, but I have never been able to get past the fourth volume. Just TOO precious for me ... (ducking and running)

I was considering pasting a random paragraph from Finnegan's Wake in about now, but decided that would be mean.

I also prefer my brownies with nuts.

I think Proust's reputation exceeds the mastery of his works, Dahlink. Four volumes is amazing, IMHO. I think I'd rather climb through The Canterbury Tales (which is at least bawdy as hell once you know what they're talking about) than remember the past with Marcel!

Hey, Canterbury Tales rocks! The Miller's and the Reeve's Tales are, yes, bawdy as all get out, but many of the other tales are charming or just rousing good stories.

The key to reading Chaucer is to read him out loud. Although, even that didn't work for me until I took Anglo-Saxon. Then, suddenly, I could read Middle English.

I wish you people would stay on topic. Didn't someone once propose that all off-topic comments have their own off-topic post? Some people.

If ever there was an acceptable place for the tangent I'm going off on [McIntyre cringes] this would be it. So here goes.

Proust never did much for me. I read Swann in Love for a class, but it didn't leave much of an impression. The movie of the same name was tedious. I love Finnegans Wake and the only way to read it is with a random paragraph. Joyce initially wanted it published on card stock paper on a ring, like a Rolodex, so that the reader would be able to enter the "story" at a random spot. A ha! Caught you Lissa. It's Finnegans Wake, not Finnegan's Wake. That's Joyce messing with you right away.

I think you could spend half your life on just the first page of FW.

riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, from swerve of shore to bend
of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to
Howth Castle and Environs.
Sir Tristram, violer d'amores, fr'over the short sea, had
passencore rearrived from North Armorica on this side the scraggy
isthmus of Europe Minor to wielderfight his penisolate war: nor
had topsawyer's rocks by the stream Oconee exaggerated themselse
to Laurens County's gorgios while they went doublin their mumper
all the time: nor avoice from afire bellowsed mishe mishe to
tauftauf thuartpeatrick not yet, though venissoon after, had a
kidscad buttended a bland old isaac: not yet, though all's fair in
vanessy, were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe. Rot a
peck of pa's malt had Jhem or Shen brewed by arclight and rory
end to the regginbrow was to be seen ringsome on the aquaface.

Evidence of his circular non-narrative non-structure can be seen by looking at the last page (not the end) of the book:
sad and weary I go back to you, my cold father, my cold mad
father, my cold mad feary father, till the near sight of the mere
size of him, the moyles and moyles of it, moananoaning, makes me
seasilt saltsick and I rush, my only, into your arms. I see them
rising! Save me from those therrble prongs! Two more. Onetwo
moremens more. So. Avelaval. My leaves have drifted from me.
All. But one clings still. I'll bear it on me. To remind me of. Lff!
So soft this morning, ours. Yes. Carry me along, taddy, like you
done through the toy fair! If I seen him bearing down on me now
under whitespread wings like he'd come from Arkangels, I sink
I'd die down over his feet, humbly dumbly, only to washup. Yes,
tid. There's where. First. We pass through grass behush the bush
to. Whish! A gull. Gulls. Far calls. Coming, far! End here. Us
then. Finn, again! Take. Bussoftlhee, mememormee! Till thous-
endsthee. Lps. The keys to. Given! A way a lone a last a loved a
long the

The last words of the last page connect to the first words of the first page ("riverrun ...").

I studied Joyce under the great Hugh Kenner at Hopkins. I agree with his contention thatr most Joyce scholars are dull-witted academics who don't get that Ulysses and FW are full of jokes and silly wordplay.

For example, annotated texts will point out that in the first sentence "Armorica" is the name of the north-western part of Gaul, which may be true and have some significance, but clearly (to me) North Armorica is a pun on a well-armed America. The whole thing is just the most massive richly layered poem of all time. I think that like Dante's Divine Comedy, you can read FW without knowing all the esoterica, that it exists on a plane wholly accesssible to anyone with a decent vocabulary and imagination. It's a kaleidoscope.

Yes.

Try reading Canterbury Tales in the original Middle English with a heavy Scottish accent. It makes a lot more sense, since you are connecting with the pre-Great Vowel Shift sounds.

Scotch is a drink, but a Scot is a man!

I cheated. I used Clif notes.....

"and so it was that later, when the miller told his tale that her face at first just ghostly, turned a whiter shade of pale..."

True, OMG, Joyce didn't do apostrophes. He had a non-standard relationship to punctuation.

You studied under Hugh Kenner? Ok, I'm impressed. And anyone who takes Joyce seriously is missing the point.

And EL says yes...channeling Molly Bloom?

As for the Great Vowel Shift, the timing is debatable. I'm far more interested in the issue of the pronunciation, or not, of terminal e's.

"Yes" wasn't EL. Nice catch though.

Ah...I was hoping she wasn't channeling Molly Bloom. You channeling her, OMG, is not nearly as scary. Because you do that kind of thing.

I love Joyce and Chaucer both. Both are inexhaustible and repay re-reading.

When we lived in Zurich we visited Joyce's grave, with its jaunty statue, and I was pleased to realize that it is close enough to the zoo for him to hear the lions roar. I also had the pleasure, in a previous library job, of sorting hundreds of original Joyce letters.

But Owl, didn't you deny being a Bluejay in a previous post?

Agreed, Dahlink. Chaucer and Joyce both are rich, rich authors. Under-rated, too. Both were keen observers, too.

I was really, really lucky to have a HS English teacher who was a Joyce fan. She also gave me Beowulf, Tristram Shandy and Farley Mowat to read.

How could anyone think the classics are boring?

didn't you deny being a Bluejay in a previous post?

What's a Bluejay (other than lunch)?

I like Joyce W.

Come on, Owl--if you studied at JHU, that makes you a Bluejay!

Your mention of lunch reminds me that students in my husband's lab once had a contest to name two goldfish. The winners were "Lunch" and "Dinner."

Thanks, LEC! I like you too!

For one brief moment, I saw my name in all these posts and felt like Sally Field ("you like me, you really really like me"). LOL!

A bad taste warning is appropriate, perhaps, but do any of you ever wonder what our dear friend Owlie eats? Here is your chance to find out.

I knew your brain would be bubbling ... Joyce Joyce Joyce Joyce Joyce Bacon and Spam.

Joyce, I was kind of half paying attention, thinking, "yeah, yeah, let's move this along..." and then I "realized" that you were the topic and became very confused! I thought, Geeze, can they tell I'm blonde?

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About this blog
Richard Gorelick was appointed The Baltimore Sun's restaurant critic in September 2010. Before joining the paper staff fulltime, he contributed freelance criticism and features articles about food to area and regional publications. Along the way, he dispatched for short-distance trucking companies, shilled for cultural non-profits, and assisted in cognitive neurology research – never the subject, always the control.

He takes restaurants seriously but not himself, and his favorite restaurant is the one you love, too.
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