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September 21, 2008

How to get restaurant reviews from other foodies

CinghialeApp.jpg(And say, EL ... you got any way for us to share our own reviews with each other, maybe on a sidebar site? Though you are obviously the fearless leader of this sandbox, I'd love to hear individual takes from other denizens. My biggest problem with Zagat, say, is the fact that I can't engage in conversation with their reviewers the way we engage here. I'd take any recommendation from any of the regular sandlings without hesitation -- even OMG [though I'd put my BC/BS card in my shirt pocket for easy access]).

Posted by: MD Canon | September 20, 2008 10:13 PM

 

I've often tried to get people to post mini-reviews here to start such a discussion. I haven't had much luck. I thought with the Monday Morning Quarterbacking I could get more reaction because the places I review are often new, so other diners' visits would be recent, too. But I rarely get more than, "The service was terrible." ...

Sometimes when I post an e-mail from a reader asking for suggestions, I get some responses, but they aren't very descriptive. Even when I ask for Top 10 restaurants, the posts are more often just "The Eat-In Inn" rather than "I ate at the Eat-In Inn Saturday and the veal chop was great but stay away from the braised tongue."

Let me point out that even the winners of the Dining@Large restaurant gift certificates have never talked about their winning meals.

I have no idea why this is, but if you have any suggestions as to how to get other people here to share their thoughts on restaurants with us in a little more depth, I'd love to hear them -- both the suggestions and the thoughts.

Here was my first attempt to get other reviews on the blog. Ha ha. I'd know better now than to ask for civility. How innocent I was then.

 

(Barbara Haddock Taylor/Sun photographer)

Posted by Elizabeth Large at 5:53 AM | | Comments (24)
        

Comments

I think part of the problem may be that many Baltimore foodies already post restaurant reviews in their own personal blogs so they don't feel compelled to post full reviews here. I know I personally post detailed reviews of all the new restaurants I eat at in my own blog. I think people don't tend to want to write something that lengthy in a comments section. Just a thought.

Feel free to include the URL of your blog when you post. (It will link your name to it.) EL

Chowhound has a regional board for the DC-Baltimore area, to which many Sandbox participants already contribute comments. Also, as Danielle noted, many of those listed in the D@L Blogroll post their own reviews on their own blogs.

Since the D@L search function is limited to the opening text (and does not extend to comments), it would be difficult to find info on a specific restaurant unless a separate blog entry were set up for each restaurant -- a logistical nightmare, to be sure. Moreover, all of the PR flacks in town would probably flood their clients' entries with planted raves.

Chowhound is great, as long as you agree with the other posters...

Perhaps a condition of winning one of the fabulous restaurant gift certificates could be to write a mini-review and post it here. I know, putting conditions on a gift makes it less so.

When I posted asking people to look at my blog for directions to the Market Meet-Up, I was accused of it being "...a blatant attempt to drive traffic to your site".

What is a blog for if not to have people read it? I do not benefit at all from having people read my blog. I don't even have a sitemeter on the blog and I don't accept advertising, so there's no motive for me to drive traffic to my blog.

I mainly write reviews of restaurants and the farmers' market, and post them on my blog, which has been linked on this site, both in the blogroll and with my name, for as about long as you've been writing D@L and I've been commenting on it.

If I write a review of a restaurant and share it here, with a link in my name field, would not that also be driving traffic to my site to see what else I've written about? People might want to see more reviews to see if they agree with me or disagree with me.

I would rather not write restaurant reviews here for fear that I would get another snarky comment about asking people to visit my blog.

...end of rant...

Everyone uses Chowhound, so I don't really think that D@L is the right forum for reviews. It's more for interesting conversations that we're actually not allowed to have on CH. Lots of comment moderation on CH. It is very strange the first time your post mysteriously disappears. Now I'm used to it.

If you use CH enough you get to know which posters you tend to agree with. Kind of like newspaper reviewers.

Work continues at the space formerly known as GAMPYs.

FYI

Thanks. Unfortunately I've called the owner several times, but she's not returning my calls. :-( EL

Two thoughts on the paucity of mini reviews: first, is the Sandbox too conversational in nature? I don't really visit or read other blogs to be able to judge but certainly comments here are very conversational in nature and tone. As such, ‘The service was lousy ...' fits into an open discussion that moves on. Our discussions are less like a couple of friends sitting around and each person speaking in long, multi- paragraph utterances (which is the nature of mini-reviews.)

The second possibility has to do with the different structure of a mini-review. As one who has posted several since climbing into the Sandbox, they are not easy. To begin, we have the EL model before us (not really meant as a suck-up comment): informative and entertaining. Second, the blogware certainly works against longer form writing. (Yes I know, write elsewhere and paste over here. I've done that for my reviews; it’s still a pain.) Third is the issue of writing a longer piece in general. (And yes I did just move this to Word, both for editing and because my voice recognition software works much better in Word than in the blogware.) I don't mean to impugn anyone's writing skills, but probably a lot of folk are not as comfortable writing 500 or 1000 words as they are dashing off one or two sentences. Not having Mr. McIntyre's merry band of blue-pencil pushing, bow tie wearing elves is also a consideration. One or two sentences don't usually require a lot of editing. For me, there is a direct ratio between words written and the time needed to edit and re-write what I have written.

Gift certificate winner here. I can't really answer this question. After I went to Salt and had a great meal, I just could not write about it. Could not. I don't know why. Then I had no problem recently writing a mini-review of TapaBar in Little Italy. I have SO many other neuroses to deal with that I doubt this one will ever get much attention.

But now that I've been called out on it, I just might write that thing out of spite, because spite is one of the best motivators ever.

And now I have to deal with all of Bourbon Girl's quirks, which are so numerous that I seriously suggested writing a handbook. Don't get me wrong, finding another person with a lot of tiny quirks (or bells and whistles) is actually quite endearing, because she is ridiculously awesome in so many other ways. That she can only eat an apple if it is cut into very thin slices is not much of burden. Plus i get to show off my mad knife skillz.

No one has ever before come up with a user name so long it pushed the PM of the date and time to the second line. EL

Pushing the limits since 2008.

EL wrote: "No one has ever before come up with a user name so long it pushed the PM of the date and time to the second line.."

Please don't encourage him.

OMG Conundrum: Then I had no problem recently writing a mini-review of TapaBar in Little Italy. Yea, but you made up for it in quality -- that review sounded so charmingly delicious that I wanted to jump in the car and go to the nearest tapas bar. (I didn't, but you get my point.)

Well put RtSO. When I tried to write a review of Salt, I felt that my voice was artificial. Something just wasn't right. Maybe because when you sit down to do it it feels like homework or work, both of which you are judged on. Not that that would happen here, but it's a psychological reflex. One feels a bit like Caine. Able EL has already offered some tasty grilled lamb to the gods and all you have is freakin' tofurky.

Yes, Fille de Fromage, even I have no idea how my mind works. That it works at all is good enough.

I am so uncool that I had never heard of chowhound before that entity was so unpleasant in the matter of soup. I will never want/need to know anything enough that I would go to that blog. Just me in my un cool world.

Um, Cheese Girl - why you keep flirting with my man? Well, I guess more accurately, it would be THROWING YOURSELF at my man, in the most desperate and transparent manner...

(ha! go ahead, he and his big hands don't do desperation)

What happened to girl solidarity? I'm disappointed. And starting to get a little annoyed. Hmmm annoyed... Whatever happened to that Rockchik? (diabolical chuckle)

Not to worry, Bourbon Girl. I was lusting over the cheese plate.

Rockchik has been gone quite some time - that must have some accident she had.

Meow....

I'd take any recommendation from any of the regular sandlings without hesitation -- even OMG [though I'd put my BC/BS card in my shirt pocket for easy access]).

Oh the indignity I must suffer. MD Canon heal thyself.

Now I'm really going to do that review just for spite. Right after I make some tea and search for my missing turmeric. How do you lose turmeric? Be forewarned, you will be getting the id-ful torrent of mind spew from the firehose of memory (yeah like that).

What is it with you guys and sand? It really doesn't go with food. Somebody needs to go to my Metaphor Re-education Camp in Cambodia.

Yes, the review, mini- or not, is intimidating when responding to a professional reviewer. But after almost two months, guilt has gotten the better of us:
I was lucky enough to accompany e, one of the gift-winners, to The Black Olive in Fells Point back on great eight/eight/oh eight. The gift certificate provided us with this opportunity to eat above our pay levels, and we went recklessly wild with such things as TWO appetizers and...and...okay, that was our recklessly wildness. But for the record that's two more than usual.
The dinner was everything we hoped it would be. Just perfect. We were seated by the front window, and if I remember correctly even the chairs are sumptuous at this place.
e started with a Avocado Greek Salad with Mixed Greens, which featured generous hunks of two of e's favorite things: feta and avocado (yes, I mean "things," not just "foods"). With my appetizer, the Black Olive not only reminded me how good zuchinni can be, but also essentially said, "Hey, this is my friend The Concept of Pan-Searing Greek Cheese--I can't believe you haven't met yet! I think you guys are gonna get on just famously."
e and I both chose to go with the fresh fish option for our main courses. I'm sure The Black Olive does some excellent lamb, but from what we'd heard this was the way to go.
I had a Dorade Royale, and e had the Mediterranean Sea Bass. Suffice it to say that they were superb, even considering the first act they were following--their own table-side beheading and deboning. We groaned at thoughts of our attempts to make fish at home.
We aren't very demanding and know a lot of former and current food-service employees; usually service has to be pretty bad for us to care. So it was lovely to go somewhere and notice that the service was really on a higher level than at most of our haunts.
We skipped the carrot cake (though we pined, I tell you, we pined.) and capped the night at the Waterfront Hotel which, unfortunately, did nothing but contrast The Black Olive's offerings of great service and great atmosphere.
So thanks to EL and thanks to the Sun for such a treat.
Also, e has pretty much forsaken all other travel mugs for the baltimoresun.com one, so extra bonus thanks there, as well.

Great question and comments. Since I run a Baltimore review site, I wanted to share my perspective. We've found that both the focus of the site and the user community are two big factors. As other commenters mentioned, the site needs to feature user reviews prominently and make it easy to search/browse user reviews (by neighborhood, cuisine, member). If user reviews aren't a large part of the site's fabric, it won't work.

The community aspect is another key part. Like blogs, people write reviews for a variety of reasons. However, it's ultimately about expressing yourself and more importantly, getting confirmation that people are listening. For blogs, that comes in the form of comments and emails. For user reviews, it's things like compliments and votes. For example, at 600block we let members send each other compliments. That creates an important feedback loop that encourages more participation. We also feature our top members on our home page.

Finally, let each member show off their reviews and what they love about Baltimore. We let our members create their own city profile with a photo and all their favorite places, reviews and friends. We're still learning, but our 300+ reviews suggest we're on the right track.

RJT suggested the Trattoria Italiana Pazani in Elkridge for the Top Ten Restaurants in a Strip Mall. Since I usually drive by there at least once a day I figured I should try the place out. Therefore, my DW and I went there for dinner tonight (Wednesday).

There is a little vestibule when you enter, shielding diners from both hot and cold blasts of air, depending on the season. Decor is warm, with painted accents suggesting olive branches, drawing your eyes away from the strip mall windows. About a dozen tables and booths greet you upon entering. There is a set of chalkboard-like menus up high, divided into Pizzas (White and Red) and Paninni/Subs, Entrees, and Appetizers/Salads, which you can read while crossing to the ordering station. Do not rely on these as they just list the food names and prices; pick up one of the folded menus, which are available at several locations. Ordering is done at a counter. The available wines, beers, bottled sodas, waters, and other drinks are arranged along the counter. The young lady who took our orders was quite helpful in explaining what the various dishes were.

My DW ordered the Spinach Manicotti alla Fiorentina which was three manicotti stuffed with spinach and ricotta cheese in a rose cream sauce. We found out later, when reading the menu at our table, that you can get some ground beef included for an extra two bucks. I ordered the Fettuccine Genovese, fettucine with a ground beef, sausage, onion, and peas in tomato sauce. We also ordered a Caprese Salad to share. We opted for fountain sodas. The total came to less that $40.00, including a few bucks in the "tip jar." You order, pay, are given a plastic table number, and seat youself. The food is delivered to your table. Fountain sodas, iced tea, napkin-rolled silverware, and jars of crushed peppers, herbs, and powdered garlic are on a counter near the ordering area. Take home boxes too.

The Caprese Salad was tasty, with some fresh-sliced mozzarella on top of sliced almost-flavorful tomatoes (the menu says Beefsteak tomatoes, which might explain it), with garlic, basil, and olive oil sprinkled over, and some greens underneath. When I make such a salad I also put a few drops of balsamic vinegar over the cheese to give it a bit more flavor. Since there is no server, the food comes out when ready, and we were almost finished with the salad when our entrees came out.

My DW really liked the Manicotti, saying that it had good filling and sauce. She usually like her pasta somewhat beyond al dente, and said that it varied from al dente to somewhat overdone, which she liked. We wound up bringing one of the Manicotti home, as she was full after the salad and pasta. My Fettuccine was al dente, with a nice amount of the sauce tossed through. The combination of beef, pork, onions, and tomatoes combined well, with the peas providing a dash of color. I definitely ate more than I should have and almost finished the portion. It would be good for someone younger who can eat the way I would love to.

A chalkboard on the back wall offered various flavors of Gelatti and Sorbetti, but we could not try any after our salad and entrees. The kitchen is right behind the counter, so we could hear the discussion going on there. Both my DW and I, could tell when the owner was being emphatic, even though we speak little or no Italian. This was not an unacceptable noise level and actually provided almost a "home dining" experience. Overall, Trattoria Pazani is a success, delivering on what it promises - good food in a relaxed, casual atmosphere. We will likely go back again.

Husband has a theory that ocean air is somehow better for me so we take spontaneous rides to the shore in pursuit of this 'good air'. That being said, we went on one of these jaunts on yesterday and wound up in the Rehoboth area.

We had always wanted to stop for dinner at Blue Coast Seafood and Grill in Bethany but always found the wait to be daunting. Last night, with the season winding down, we waited only 30 minutes for a table. It was worth every minute of the wait,

We do a lot of sharing of foods and using appetizers as entrees, so, here is what we had. A bowl of lobster and butternut squash bisque that was smooth and just redolent of the cream that had been used to make it. There was a hint of sherry and a lot of yummy lobster tidbits. We also enjoyed a frisee and romaine salad with roasted beets, green apple slices, a few pecans, a little blue cheese and a viniagrette dressing. The beets were outstanding. They were sweet and full of flavor. The house bread was decidedly not in the same league as the rest of the food. It was tasteless and served stone cold.

I almost forgot the steamed shrimp dumplings with a soy ginger sauce that was so good my husband asked the server if it was made in house or something he could purchase in a store. Really outstanding. We closed with the Fish and Chips. Two nice sized cod filets served with more fries than six people could have consumed. The fish itself was wonderfully fresh tasting, the batter would have been improved with the addition of a little salt. It needed salt in the batter not added to the food later. This entree also included a nicely spiced cole slaw and an unusual tartar sauce spiced with a little mustard. We passed on dessert but I saw a bread pudding that was calling my name!

Because we were driving back home immediately after dinner, we did not have wine but there were many nice choices served by the glass as well as the bottle. All in all this was a memorable dining experience and we will return. One last note. This is a LOUD restaurant. There are few soft surfaces to absorb noise and at one point I could very easily have stood up and not so politely asked everyone to take it down a few decibels, but I restrained myself. lol

Elizabeth, trying to write this gave me the ultimate appreciation for what you do week after week. How many times did I use 'nice'? Hope this is helpful to anyone looking for places at the shore.

Thanks very much! I had an editor once who wouldn't let her reviewers use "good." But sometimes the variations sounds artificial and silly, so I indulge myself now. EL

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About Elizabeth Large
Elizabeth Large, The Baltimore Sun's restaurant critic, blogs about memorable meals, dining trends, comings and goings on the restaurant scene and more.
Elizabeth Large retired in February. Until a new critic is named, Laura Vozzella will be blogging here. Vozzella has been a reporter with The Sun for 10 years. She’s covered small-town scandal (Columbia gym towel thefts!) and big-city mayors (O’Malley, Dixon).

Lately she has been writing about food (cilantro, pine nuts). She also writes The Talk, a weekly column about politicians and other local oddities (again: O’Malley, Dixon). She’ll continue with the food writing and The Talk column while blogging.
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