If it walks like a duck...
The general consensus seems to be in both the chains vs. groups discussion and the diner discussion that definitions aren't necessary. You just know what they are.
I'd like to make the argument for definitions, for clarity's sake if nothing else.
For instance, Flipkid doesn't consider McCormick & Schmick's or the Oceanaire Seafood Room chains, while I do. I'm guessing that's because price factors into his definition, while it doesn't into mine.
More importantly (because I have to come up with ten of them in a couple of weeks)...
...I don't agree that Jimmy's and Sip & Bite are diners. To me a diner has a physical structure that looks like, well, a diner, along with all the other characteristics people have been talking about. Diners are often free-standing and kind of retro looking, either real retro or faux retro.
Too bad "greasy spoon" has such a negative connotation. If there were a more positive equivalent, that's the category I'd put Jimmy's and Sip & Bite into. Whatever. Grills maybe? But not diners.
Of course, Top Ten Greasy Spoons doesn't sound very appetizing.
Comments
As a NJ native I can appreciate the idea that a diner needs to be a fee standing structure but I don't think that is true. I think Jimmy's and the Sip & Bite would both be diners in my opinion.
I like the suggestion that what makes a diner is that they will server you breakfast as long as they are open.
As far as top 10 greasy spoons, that's a list I'd like to see.
Posted by: Paul | January 19, 2008 4:45 PM
As you might imagine from my earlier posts, I whole-heartedly agree. I also like greasy spoon, but there has to be some non-negative equivalent. The non-diner diners seem to be just good, old-fashioned, casual American food, but unfortunately "casual" has now been gentrified.
Posted by: matt hudock | January 19, 2008 5:07 PM
Elizabeth, you are just plain wrong. If Jimmy's and the Sip & Bite aren't "diners", then there is no such thing.
I could see the "free standing" criteriea if you were writing this blog for the New Jersey Star Ledger. But you are writing it for the Baltimore Sun, and Baltimore ain't Jersey.
That whole "free standing" nonsense might be Jersey's anal classification (and it is), but Baltimoreans don't hold on to that idiotic Jersey mentality about diners having to be free standing.
Now personally, I don't think Jimmy;s would be on my top-10 (Sip & Bite would be though), but to deny them as being "diners" is a disservice to your readers.
Pete's Grill isn't free standing either, and it is very much a diner--one that deserves top-10 consideration.
You are just plain wrong on this one.
Posted by: Marty | January 19, 2008 7:51 PM
Although the term seems to have acquired a broader use nowadays, the term "diner" originally referred to structures that were not only standalone, but also prefabricated. There's a pretty good discussion of it on Wikipedia, among other places.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diner
Posted by: Hal Laurent | January 20, 2008 11:25 AM
There is a chain restaurant that is my absolute favorite place to eat when I visit my twin brother.
Check out their awesome TV ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR7yqkmNG3A
Posted by: Owl Meat Jerky | January 20, 2008 4:09 PM
Jimmy's and the Sip & Bite are definitely diners.
Sometimes in the tight quarters of a city you don't have the choice for a stand-alone - doesn't mean it isn't a diner. They're just anti-sprawl diners.
The diner in Seinfeld wasn't a stand-alone.
The only diner downtown that is stand-alone is the Hollywood Diner - and does anyone even go there anymore??
Please refer to the diner discussion which for some reason is continuing under the Next Sunday's Review post.
Posted by: LJ | January 20, 2008 8:24 PM
I definitely do not think that a "diner" has to be free-standing. The Broadway Diner in Red Bank is not a free-standing building and it most certainly is a "diner" in the most diner-friendly state of New Jersey.
It's been a long time since I've been to either Sip 'N Bite or Jimmy's but I wouldn't object to them being called a "diner."
The most curious thing that I've found about a true "diner" is the menu. It's typically wide, varied and serves breakfast any time of the day or night. But the real clincher in my mind for a place to qualify as a bona-fide "diner" is a selection of Greek Specialties.
That seems to be the true essence of a "diner."
Posted by: Jay C. | January 20, 2008 11:05 PM
I say 'yes!" to the Top Ten Greasy Spoons!
Posted by: betsy | January 21, 2008 11:43 PM
I think small has to figure into it somewhere. Looking like a railroad dining car (diner) has something to do with it as well. Bel Loc diner is a diner.
These places with 40 acre parking lots and full service cocktail bars are really chrome plated restaurants.
Posted by: Greg | March 10, 2008 1:41 PM