$6000/year? That's $500/month, just in taxes. Don't tell me Baltimore's high tax rate is detriment to people moving in (or reason they move out).

And more importantly, what do you get for that $500/month that people out in the counties *don't* get?

Wouldn't property taxes be more or less built in to the market by depressing home prices?

Able Baker, the general assumption is that city home prices are lower than they would be if the property-tax rate itself was lower. Of course, mortgages last 30 years, but property taxes are forever.

Let's get real here. No sane person wants to move to the City unless they have to. There are only a few areas that are safe to live in. There are no public schools a normal human being would want to send their children. The crime rate is one of the highest in the country. The taxes are ridiculous. Businesses continue to move out. Lowering the property tax is not going to be enough of a motivation to get people to move in. People don't call the city Bodymore or Ghettomore for nothing. Even if you do move to the City and instead of paying 10k a year on taxes (for a rowhome), you pay 5k, that is not enough to make me, or anyone I know do it anyway. Is it a start? Not really. There are so many other problems in the City that the property tax issue can't fix. It is not enough, sorry. I don't mean to be offensive, but it's the truth. Public perception is key. I had a friend from Chicago come here to visit for a job transfer. After spending a weekend here, she is changing her mind.

Good point, although I'd imagine only a tiny minority owns their home for longer than they hold a mortgage. I imagine it'd be tough to figure out exactly how much it depresses real estate prices because of all the other factors that depress real estate prices. The interaction of the Homestead Credit probably skews things as well.

> Of course, mortgages last 30 years, but property taxes are forever.

Yes, but with the Homestead thing the property tax increases are capped at 4% per year.

A lot of contractors and investors rehab thier houses in a way to get a Hisstorical Tax Credit.Which freezes taxes for 10 years.Since many of these houses were rehabbed in the past ten years, many will soon be ending.I personally know of a few homeowners that plan to move to the County when thier tax freeze ends.

I think that many things stop people from moving to and staying in the City.But price is important.A free market generally means that when prices get low enough, people will buy houses

But property taxes often negate the low house prices in parts of the city.And crime and bad schools also negates the advantages of low house prices[low compared to places like NYC,DC and Philladelphia ]

If the propert tax rate is cut, then some City programs will have to be cut.But if it isnt cut, then we will continue to see a mass exodus out of Baltimore City. Baltimore really doesnt have many choices as far as im concerned.It is headed down a very bad path.The status qou is no longer acceptable.And minor changes arent enough

AbleBaker has a good point. I think that the advantage of living in the city (bc of lower purchase price) probably washes out when you hit the 6-8 year mark. By 10 yrs, it's completely gone. Prices are lower, but not by enough that would fully price in the different tax rate.

The real advantage of living in the city is hours saved in commuting and money spent on gas and tolls. Of course, if you don't work in the city, there's less advantage.

In my case, living in the city saves my wife and I each 5 hrs a week in commute time, so approx 500 hrs of commuting a year between the two fo us. (It would take us each about 30 min more to get to work, each way, from a fairly "close in" suburb.) That's more than 20 days a year spent in a car!

Then, when you include gas and tolls, it would be several thousand more, easily. We also find that people from the 'burbs would rather drive in to meet us here than us going out there--there is more to do down here. So, in my case, the taxes were outweighed by other things. I would love to see lower prop taxes, as I think it would spur development and renovations in the city.However, too many people can't see the forest because they're stuck looking at the "tree" that is property taxes. There is so much more to the economic calculations people should be making.

Abel, it is actually pretty easy to determine how much the higher tax rate lowers property values (assuming people were rational and financially astute). The city tax rate is 1.168% higher than the baltimore county rate, and the cost of money right now is approximately 5% to 6% depending on your financing. Dividing the tax income by the capitalization rate gives you an idea of how much more your house would be worth if the city had the same tax rate as the county. I'd say a 25% increase in home values would be pretty easily achievable.

I was SHOCKED when I discovered how high property taxes were in the city, but it didn't stop me from moving here. It did, however, really limit my housing choices. There were a ton of really amazing houses offered for much less than they were assessed for - however, I couldn't put an offer on them b/c $10,000 a year in taxes was just outrageous. I'm in a place now where I think the property taxes are reasonable - - but I'm praying that my Homestead Cap kicks in before they reassess again.

Bottom line - the property taxes in the city are ridiculous. I think Rolley's plan to lower taxes by 50% for the first 200K of assesesed value is great (and then I think it's 1.75 or something like that for anything above 200K). PLEASE! Anything will help. (Well - anything more than SRB's plan.)

Whether or not lower taxes will really spur development - - I think it will certainly help... But like me, I think people are either city people or they aren't. I want to live in an urban environment - with all it's good points AND bad - I want nothing to do with the suburbs. So I was willing to pay more in property taxes. I think what would really spur development is a small decrease in taxes along with considerable improvements in safety and schools. Truthfully, when I mention that I've bought a place in Baltimore, most people cringe... They have the worst impression of this city. We need to clean up our act! Physically clean up the streets, PLANT MORE TREES (what's with the lack of trees in this city?), reduce crime, focus on improving schools/opening more charter schools (so folks don't have to pay $20K a year for private school!) - then people will come! As it is, Baltimore isn't terribly inviting to those that are city-hesitant.

I agree with Pete from Highlandtown, as usual.

SLL,
The city will plant a tree for you, all you have to do is ask. SRB has a Green canopy program going on where you fill out the form requesting a tree, volunteer to water the tree for at least year & they will come out during planting season & plant the tree for you. I did one in front of my house & my neigbors loves the tree. As to the trash, the Pigtown community association does clean ups on the weekends, but your block is only is only as clean as the people who live on it. Thats why parts of pigtown look great like my street vs a few blocks east & I wouldnt even walk the street during the day. (we recently had one neighbor on the block move out & the trash on the street dropped in half)

I think we can all agree that the city needs a transformational leader and that SRB really is more of a status quo mayor than anything else. It will be interesting to see who comes out on top among the challengers. From there, it will take a concerted effort to defeat SRB, who has been courting favor with the "haves" in the city (the top 2-5%) at the expense of the middle class. A tree program? That's part of SRB's plan?

No, you need to bring in more people who CARE about their homes, who can handle the payments to renovate a house and who have the characteristics than build communities. Not necessarily bc of SRB's fault bc she didn't make the property tax rate, those people currently choose to move to the county or to never buy in the city in the first place.

To me, Pigtown is almost the exact embodiment of stalled progress in Baltimore City. It's got a decent location, near jobs, near UM-B, near UMD Hosp, near the stadiums, not far from convention center or inner harbor... and yet, as you mention, it isn't really safe. That's an area that should be attracting buyers to revamp the area and build a cohesive community. When I was house hunting, I was over there and it was so disappointing. So much more potential. But nothing will happen unless there are profound changes in the city, including prop taxes. For what it's worth, I bought/live in an area not that different from Pigtown, so it's not like I"m putting it down. I'm just saying that it's underachieving relative to its potential. It should be a lot safer, have some better hangout/dining options, and the houses should generally be in a better condition than they're in. But without a reason to buy there and stay, it won't consistently attract that type of buyer.