The industry is upset with the HVCC so it must be working. I'd rather have the HVCC over the old collusion system. Complaining about the HVCC is like sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "lalala...can't hear you" when the latest batch of real estate price declines get reported. Let's get the correction over with already, not attack the institutions promoting reality in pricing. The HVCC isn't perfect, but it's a first step in the right direction.

Reminds of the wisdom over-turning mark-to-market accounting.

"I think that real estate valuations should have no correlation to sales prices, comps, or market trends. Banks should be willing to lend on a property regardless of what they can reasonably expect to sell it for after foreclosure." -"Dr" Yun

I can't say it any better than this:

"Complaining about the HVCC is like sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "lalala...can't hear you" when the latest batch of real estate price declines get reported."

I tried to refinance my house this spring. Unfortunately, the appraisal report came in to low. I was extremely inconvienced by this appraiser as to the time (she could only AA county one day a month) and was told the report would take a couple of weeks to complete (the report actually took her 3 days, including Saturday and Sunday, for her to complete but took her almost a month to send it to the lender). She misstated the number of bedrooms on the appraisal reoprt and did not use comparable houses (I live in a split foyer and she used ranchers and bungalows). I have filed a complaint on this appraiser and I am currently waiting for a response form the Real Estate commission. I am considering filing a complaint on the lender as well.

By blaming appraisals for low May home sales, the NAR has truly revealed itself for what it is - an inflated, still-at-the-trough, hog.
While the appraisal system is no doubt imperfect, it is ever so ironic the NAR faults it only now, when the trend is toward lower appraised value, and had no fault to find when the appraisal cycle was upward (let alone in the stratosphere).
A moratorium on a home valuation code of conduct may be just what the Nat'l Association of Realtors ordered, but hopefully true market forces will prevail.
Meanwhile, what about a home valuation code of conduct for the NAR, especially those members who are sellers' agents?

I recently (6-24) refinanced my mortgage (conventional). After the appraiser came out, I asked my broker to inform me when the appraisal came back as to its value. I contacted him several times to find out if it had and then waited three or four days, patiently, ignorantly. the next thing i know, the escrow agent is calling late at night telling me we have to close the next day or lose the lock on the 4.75 interest rate. She knows the value of the appraisal but doesn't have the document. I request a copy from my broker and get it four days later the evening of the day the loan funds. The appraisal ommitted 2 of the 3 tax lots which comprise my property, all 3 being on the new title. I was able to pay off the 1st mortgage and unsecured credit debt, but I lost the opportunity to buy as much as 60k$ at 4.75%. Would HVCC help me in anyway or does it pertain only to Freddie and Fannie? I'm supposed to get a copy at least 3 days before closing.

Hi, android -- I'm sorry you didn't have a good experience.

Many conventional loans are bought or securitized by Fannie and Freddie, so you might want to see if your mortgage is one of them.

Freddie Mac notes on its website that it's in the process of creating an "Independent Valuation Protection Institute" that will have a phone and email hotline to take complaints from consumers and industry folks about rulebreaking.

Any other suggestions, folks?

Write them: "Please refund me the appraisal money within 24 hours through a certified check or I'll contact the BBB."

I had a similiar situation and simply filed a complaint with the BBB because an appraisal didn't come back to me that had a few wrong technicalities that cost me money.

If they want it resolved they'll be writing me a certified check.

I'm not sure they're looking at the right solution. I had a good experience 3-4 years ago with two different appraisals that were very well done, quick and fair, comps were appropiate and the copius information of the condition of the house was extremely useful. I do not think I was dealing with one of the banks/realtors with pressure tactics, for that matter. Yet, seems like the reforms are approaching things from the wrong angle. I had no choice in who the appraiser would be, although I was lucky. Unless I'm wrong, it still appears that the banks will hire them. They should be chosen and hired competively by the buyer, since the buyer has to pay for the appraisal, not the bank or the realtor. Shoddy work from appraisal chop shops will not solve any problems either.

Since the HVCC came into effect i make half of what I did just 2 months ago. If whatever job you have now creates 1/2 of the income in used to to your own families detriment would you continue to work nights, weekends, etc? Would you work 7 straight years without taking off more than 2 days in a row to build up your business relationship just so the HVCC can cripple those businesses relationships instantly? So while many like me are exploring other fields of endeavor you havent even reached the tip of what bad appraisals will become. And those late night calls I used to get for a "favor" to get this appraisal in ASAP so the borrower doesn't lose their lock? Who gives a rats ass now... The lender should have locked you in for a longer period.

Would you like to know how brokers and lenders make money on your lock? Oh, I could go on and on about that. Appraiser makes $175, broker makes $1,500-$5,000 and we are the bad guy! Hilarious.

Lisa, it USED to be that way. Like my neighbor who recently had her house appraised from an appraiser in Baltimore. We live in Fairfax. Appraisal was awful cause this is a difficult area to appraise. Lenders are not allowed to talk, ask, recommend or seek their own appraisers. Middlemen do that now and they have no choice either except whoever was "lucky" enough to agree to 1/2 the usual fee. Borrowers pay for appraisals only to get borrowers on the hook to stay with that lender. The lender is the appraisers client, not the borrower.

And shoddy appraisals will be the norm not the exception in short order. Ive been appraising for 18 years and review appraisals for companies all over the country. Ive done thousands of appraisals where the lender would call me on my cell phone and ask for a rush and those relationships were great. Everyone won in the end. And if those appriasals came in low no big deal. I never got booted for bringing in a value low as they say. The only difference now is appraisals costs have gone up 50% to help pay for the AMC. Our fees have gone down and their is ZERO urgency anymore. Ill get to it when I get around to it unfortunately...

We attempted to refinance this spring; the whole process left a bad taste in my mouth.

The first bank our mortgage broker dealt with didn't like the appraisal (the broker picked the appraiser and we paid). The appraiser valued the home for more than what we paid 2 years ago plus the bank didn't like the comparables. They were all several miles away (we have a unique house in a small town). The bank ordered a 2nd appraisal which they paid for. That appraisal came back a bit lower than what we paid for the house and his comparables were also several miles away.

The bank still didn't like the comparables and wanted a 3rd appraisal (which they would pay for). At that point our broker told the bank to go pound sand.

We were finally approved by another bank who had no problem with the comparables being several miles away but we missed out on the lower rates. At this point, we are just waiting to see if rates go back down; if that happens we will pick up where we left off with the bank that approved us.

My husband and I put a 50% down payment on the house when we bought it 2 years ago and our credit score is about 809. It feels like we were penalized even though we did everything right.

For the past several years anybody with a pulse could get a mortgage, now suddenly all the banks and mortgage companies have found religion.

Thanks for all the comments, folks.

Appraiser, I'm sorry to hear this has upended your work situation.

Kathy, that sounds frustrating. Keep us posted if you try again.

Do some of you hear yourselves? You are treating each and every appraiser and lender as though they can't be trusted and guilty of a crime. Working??? Pleeease, you must be kidding or you work for a managment company. There are far more ethical appraisers and lenders out here than unethical. And let us not forget the HVCC was brought about because of an unethical "MANAGEMENT COMPANY". Hey, maybe we should assign clients to the Realtors, Attorneys, Accountants and any other service business then we will not have any dishonest people. Yea that's the ticket.

I have been a residential appraiser for 25 years. I only work in the areas I am familiar with and I refuse to conduct appraisals for discounted fees. The typical call from a management company goes something like this - " We have a property located in blah blah blah. What is your best turn time and price? We will call you back if you get the job." Not, how long have you been appraising and how familiar are you with the area? That is of no concern to the management companies. It is all about the dollars. Yea, its working alright. In compliance with USPAP, an appraiser is not supposed to accept an assignment in areas with which they have no knowledge unless they seek local help which must be revealed in the report. Do the managment companies care about this??? Noooooooooooo. Well welcome HVCC and your unregulated managment industry. Thanks Cuomo aka Matt Dillon (for all you none baby boomers, Google the name}

Sounds like the old "here is the answer now get me the inputs" way wants to make a comeback.

Kathy - That's frustrating. But honestly, your broker is just as much to blame. They should have known that bank won't accept comps over miles away. Most underwriting requires appraisers to have comps within 1 mile and within 90 days of effective date. The appraiser is not being a pain...they are following underwriting and USPAP. If the sales comparables are not there, they are not there.

Android - you are required to get that copy 3 days prior to closing unless you sign a waiver. If you didn't you should find out the investor of your loan and contact them. The lender will be required to buy your loan back. Believe me, they will only do that once.

Some of you need to brush up on the facts of this.

Fact - AMCs are not required...it's the bank's choice. Lenders can order directly from an appraiser. However you or your mortgage broker cannot order the appraisal, indicate value, ask for comp checks or have any substantive communication with the appraiser REGARDING VALUE.

Fact - Appraisers ARE often paid 40-70% of the fee the borrower pays. An AMC should be adding no more than $50-75 at most for a transaction. An appraisal should cost you $400-500 minimum in the larger areas. The appraisers cost of business has increased 100% or more and they are still charging 1990 rates. There is nothing more frustrated then to hear people complain about the appraiser's fee and then complain about the quality. IF YOU ASK FOR A WALMART PRICE YOU'RE GOING TO GET A WALMART APPRAISER. Any appraiser willing to work for WAY less than what their services are worth is not helping the situation.

FACT - An appraiser in the past could find their work gone overnight if they didn't "meet value" one too many times. Furthermore, if they ticked off the big boys they could be BLACKLISTED and get no work. HVCC has intentions of solving this issue. You don't think this is true? Ask anyone in the mortgage industry. The appraisers who "met value" got work unless you had an ethical company...the ones that are left holding this mess.

FACT - the lender has ALWAYS been the client. It has NEVER been the borrower. The lender is allowed to require the borrower to reimburse for the cost of the appraisal service. The scope of work that an appraiser would perform for a borrower vs the lender is different. You may pay for that appraisal as a result of your loan application, but YOU are not the intended user nor are YOU the client. The appraisal is for the lender to determine value. It's the credit report for the property.

Since the appraiser is required to be paid for their services despite the outcome of the service, the banks are requiring payment up front. The largest expense to an appraiser was collecting fees for appraisals where loans did not close. No other profession allows you to get services and not pay.

FACT - Not getting your loan value or purchase price is NOT an USPAP violation.

FACT - the HVCC does require portability of the appraisal. The LENDERS are the ones prohibiting this.

FACT - The issue with HVCC is not that the communication was required to stop completely...it is that the person who stands to make money on a value (loan originator) cannot state a pre-determined value.

The real problem with HVCC is that it has eliminated the flow of communication between the parties. The large banks (BofA, Chase, Wells, etc.) are still playing the same stupid game they played pre-HVCC.

If you want to be an educated consumer you should get a good understanding of what an appraiser is, shop your lender before you apply for a loan, (if you go with a big bank you are going to get a carpy AMC appraiser) and be honest with yourself. The market is declined drastically. Most appraisers aren't trying to screw you over. They are reporting the market.

The game of the ATM home is over. Get over it. The appraiser has been pushed around and beat up for too long.

The problem is that they are finally telling the TRUTH and nobody likes it.

TMR has got it right. Every comment is correct. I was an appraiser for over 16 years and worked for the same clients most of the time. I stopped working for the AMC's long ago. Low pay and always pressure to get a value and do it quick. I quit appraising on May 1st and am looking for employment in a completely different field.

I hope talking about this doesn't jinx it. Looks like our refinancing is back on. We told our broker to call us if he could get anything below 5%. The bank that approved us weeks ago (in spite of the comparables) before the rates went back up is offering 4.8% which is better than our current rate of 6.25% so we're taking it. I was surprised to get the phone call; I've been following the rates and they're still hovering around 5.25%.

Of course all this happens right before we leave for vacation !!! We hope to close as soon as we get back in 2 weeks.

YEA !!!

That's good news, Kathy -- hope it works out for you!

We recently tried to refinance. I was hesitant, but the broker assured us that everything would be fine. Long to short, the appraisal came in $50k less than the balance of our current mortgage. The appraisal was also $100K less than the sale of our neighbor's house 3 doors down which is significantly smaller than ours. Do we have any recourse against the broker or the appraiser?

Hi, Andy. I don't know the answer, but if you want to pursue it, you might start with the Maryland Department of Labor, Licensing and Regulation's financial regulation office: www.dllr.state.md.us/finance. Or perhaps the Maryland Attorney General's consumer protection division: http://www.oag.state.md.us/Consumer/index.htm

If you're certain the appraiser got your home value wrong, you could also try again with another broker (or go directly to a lender).

Posted by: TMR
Fact - AMCs are not required...it's the bank's choice. Lenders can order directly from an appraiser. However you or your mortgage broker cannot order the appraisal, indicate value, ask for comp checks or have any substantive communication with the appraiser REGARDING VALUE.

We as consumers are going through that right now! We are working with a broker who ordered an appraisal from a fellow who is local to the area where the house is located. The appraisal came back about 2 grand higher than we offered on the house, which seemed good. Well, low and behold the bank (Chase) failed to give our broker instruction about which appraisers are acceptable to them and gave an excuse that they had black-listed the one our broker used. SO, guess who gets stuck paying for another appraisal?? Yep you got it, US! The lender than sent the broker a list of acceptable appraisers to use so that FACT above apparently does not apply to mortgage issues in TN.

Not only the money but the time (going on 4 months), plus the interest rates have gone up; screwing us again! No one including our broker will take responsibility for the appraisal issue so we as the consumer are penalized for someone else's mistakes. Our broker said: well these are the guys giving the loan so we have to do what they want if you want the house. What the H is that? So in other words we have to quietly slink away with out tails between our legs? Is that It? He is right about them giving us the loan but nowhere in our contract does it state that we will be robbed in the process and have to accept it. If you've never been in this situation than you have no idea the frustrations brought forth by the lack of ethics within the lenders/brokers market. Where’s the protections for consumers; the ones who pay for all of this crap?

I know we as consumers are supposed to research and do our homework as I have for months now. This is our second time around with this process as the first time we lost $1000.00+ bucks due to the finance officer not knowing his nose from his foot! I say if the average consumer cannot trust those who are in these professions then there should be more regulations brought against them to protect the consumer. Speaking as a ripped off consumer here and I applaud those who don't give in to the heat. Thanks for all of the post here also; it is a grand relief to know that it’s the shit hitting the fan that is causing this and not my lack of FACTS for this process. For now I silently pray that this torture will end sooner than later.

Just tried to apply for a mortgage on a 75K house. House is vacant and needs lots of cosmetics--really old paint, insides have not been redone in 40 years. Structure is good and quite charming since no one has tricked it out. Was pre-approved for a 70K loan. Have credit rating of 760 and no debt. Make 62K a year and have been at the same job for 5 years. Bank said no problem, this will be a breeze. But then an appraiser from the burbs gave the house a below average rating based on lack of appliances (they were foul so realtor asked seller to remove) and old exterior paint. Now bank says they will not underwrite even though appraisal values house at MORE than I am asking for. Houses that are "fixed up" in this neighborhood of this size go for 139-170K. I really want the house. The seller will NOT make improvements. My realtor has told me to paint it to get the loan. This seems odd. Advice?

Hi, mary -- I've heard of buyers putting appliances into homes so they can get FHA loans, but painting is a new one on me. That doesn't mean it's bad advice; I just can't say.

Anyone want to weigh in?

It's disturbing to hear of a trend in banks playing ever more games, this time with appraisals in order to stall the loan until higher interest rates kick in -- all the while charging borrowers for additional appraisals. I hope some of them got %&@#ed when rates went down again recently.

I'm so glad that I dealt with my credit union for mortgages, who sees itself as serving its clients. They didn't have the lowest rates obtainable, but they were pretty darn good, and even though they gave me a great "promotional" rate 3 years ago at the peak of the banking shenanigans, they honored the even lower rate in place at the turnover this past summer.

Why yes I'm glad that you asked. I've had an up close and intimate experience with HVCC. After appraising properties for nearly 20 years I was forced to close our office because HVCC eliminated every client that we spent two decades building (banks & mortgage companies). The few calls that did manage to trickle in from AMC were "willing" to pay us $150 although they were telling us to alter our invoices to show the fee being charged was $450. Thanks but no thanks guys.

I'm no genius but I am smart enough to know extortion when I see it mortgage fraud when I am asked to participate in it.