More comments on economics & gay marriage
Elsewhere on The Sun's Web site (here), there's an extended discussion on today's column on same-sex marriage. Here are a few of the comments that have come via email.
**** Your idiotic opinion that same-sex marriage would be a good thing belongs in the funny pages not the business section.No wonder the Sun's circulation is plummeting.
"... increased wedding-hall rentals from same-sex nuptials would help generate a net gain for Maryland's budget ..." How silly. Along the same lines, coffin sales would surely increase if we emptied all our prisons. DUH! I hope Martin O'Money hears about this - more money for him to spend!
I would love for you to have had the opportunity to present your thesis to the returning veterans who saved this country in WW II. The laughter would have been deafening.
**** Thank you ! Thank you, thank you thank you ! I only wish my late partner who died 3 years ago was here to see the possibilities for legal marriage on the horizon. Even the conservative Examiner asked for civil unions (less than perfect). Instead of celebrating his life and mourning his passing, I was involved in a nasty estate battle even though he had a will (and am still settling it) and even though we were married in a Quaker meeting for worship in 2003 with nearly 300 witnesses. I know you’re going to receive all sorts of religious blather against what you wrote, but obviously you’re not worried about it too much. Neither is the Sun, for which I am also grateful.
**** Sorry, Jay, I'm not buying your 'economic' arguments to promote gay marriage.--What sort of future is there in a gay community which does not produce offspring, and in a sense has no real stake in the future of a community? (What business and investment decisions will be made there with an eye to the long-term future?)
--What about "backlash" from stable, traditional families who will choose to re-locate to a more family-friendly locale?
--What does the prevalence of partners-without-children (and higher incomes) do to housing prices, and the availability of middle-income homes?
-- How does the prevalence of a politically liberal citizenry (I'm assuming most gays associate themselves with liberal or leftist political values) affect tax policy and business climate?
-- You might also note the effect that higher-income communities, such as San Francisco, have on attracting young-married couples with children, and in fact, young people with lower incomes. According to recent census data, San Francisco is about last in the country in its percentage of residents under age 18.
-- From a non-economic point-of-view, I would dispute your assertion that promoting gay marriage is "the right thing to do." There is a moral issue involved which isn't answered simply by repeating the pc buzzwords, "diversity"..."tolerance".
**** I just want to say that character and morality are more important than money or the economy! Matthew 16:26 says, "What good will it be for as man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?"
**** I really enjoyed reading your article, "Legalizing same-sex marriage is sensible". My husband and I support gay marriage. Our reasons were more for equality and fair treatment. To show respect to all. It never really occurred to me that our economy as a state could be positively affected. It makes sense. You look at places such as San Francisco that is open to gay people, and the environment there is different. It's active, healthy, and well-established financially. Not that San Fran doesn't have it's problems but overall, they do well for themselves. It's a thriving city. Compare it to a place such as Dayton Ohio and you see divide, segregation, dead downtown area, and less opportunity for employment. Companies are not jumping to move there. We recently moved to Frederick Maryland about 18 months ago. We love living here in Maryland and hope that the economy will improve. I hope gay marriage will be legalized here in the state of Maryland. I agree that we can be a state where people will feel welcome and will want to live here.
**** Wonderfully written piece! The approach helps ease people into an expansion of consciousness and embrace of interdependence. Your calm rendering of the benefits of true equity and vibrant diversity help us all release fear of change, venturing into the new with confidence that we have strength enough to welcome the future. Bravo!
**** THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, Mr. Hancock, for such a wonderfully written, sensible and accurate article on legalizing same-sex marriage in Maryland! As the mother of a fine young man who happens to be gay -- and lives in Baltimore -- it is so encouraging to see articles like this appear. Your information is absolutely accurate and seems to me to be with no argument!!! We are encouraged this year as folks like our esteemed Attorney General bravely spoke out in favor of marriage equality. I am proud to be a Marylander and would be more proud if our state did the RIGHT thing and passed this law! Thank you for a beautiful article!
**** Historically, homosexuality has signaled decay and the dissolution of societies.


Comments
Kudos! Gay Marriage needs to be recognized! Thank you for pointing out the economic benefits of gay nuptuals - since we already know the moral benefits.
Posted by: Joseph Smith | February 20, 2008 3:33 PM
Guess what, heteros. WA state taxpayers have forked over $20,000+ dollars just to me, all due to Marriage Inequality. Instead of a legal divorce after 8 years, I ended up homeless and penniless, and YOU are paying for it. Makes perfect economic sense, no?
Posted by: John | February 20, 2008 7:00 PM
"What sort of future is there in a gay community which does not produce offspring, and in a sense has no real stake in the future of a community?"
You know, perhaps the offspring issue is more due to the fact that it's more difficult for gay or lesbian prospective parents to get access to infertility services than, say, an impotent heterosexual man or a heterosexual woman with fertility issues. They're not biologically capable of reproducing on their own either (and make up an equal percentage of the country as gay and lesbian individuals); are they disregarded as people with no stake in the future who won't produce offspring? No! They adopt, they seek treatments, etc. And as it becomes easier and more acceptable to do so, gay couples seek the same thing. That argument belongs in the dustbin.
Posted by: Allie | February 21, 2008 5:53 AM
It's remarkable that the one commenter has the gall to cite WWII veterans as an excuse to discriminate. I for one know that my grandfather served in WWII so that his children and their children could live in freedom, and so that others could not tell us how to live our lives. Telling me I can't get married and making me a second class citizen is the anthesis of everything he fought for.
Tho the commenter with the questions:
1) How dare you complain that gay people have no stake in the community as an argument for the community give us no stake? We are trying to be part of the world around us, to participate in the institution of marriage, to live lives of normality which everyone wants, and you're rejecting us. Not the other way around.
2) It can't be much of a backlash if the people who disagree with us just up and leave. If they think that America needs second class citizens, good riddance to them.
3) Whether gay people can marry or not doesn't much alter housing prices, since gay people exist and form couples and buy houses together anyway.
4) The prevalence of a politically liberal citizenry historically leads to sane tax policy and an excellent business climate. Look up economic trends over the last 30 years for example: every time we have a republican president the national debt skyrockets and business goes into a recession. Every time we have a democratic president, we pay down the national debt and business turns around to head into a boom. Don't believe me? Look it up.
5) America's cities are too expensive for young people in general, and it's not hundreds of millions of gay people driving up prices, it's supply and demand. Blaming gay people is a simple but stupid answer to the problem. Want it to be cheaper to live in a city? Build more housing.
6) Your morals are your problem, stop shoving them down my throat.
Posted by: Tom Farrell | February 21, 2008 7:45 AM
As someone who prides himself as being nothing if not diplomatic, I would take simple legal equality under the law, even if the operative term is "civil unions." If social conservatives simply wish to reserve the term "marriage" for heterosexual couples, they can have it, as long as Gay couples are treated fairly.
Here's an example of how the current system is not fair: According to a statement I recently received in the mail from the Social Security Administration, my married spouse would be eligible for over $1100 per month (after retirement) in the event of my death. I think anyone would agree that $1100 per month is a pretty hefty chunk of change. However, it is money that my significant other would not be eligible for, because we would not be allowed to get married. I would like to provide for the financial well-being of my spouse, just as I'm sure any heterosexual would, but in essence I'm throwing away money on a fund that my partner cannot take advantage to in the event of my death.
At the root of this discrepancy is the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) which was signed, to his eternal shame, by Bill Clinton. Because of DOMA, even Gay couples who are legally married in Massachusetts unrecognized by the federal government, and any such couple becomes magically “UN-married” once they move to another state. So frankly, even married Gay couples in Massachusetts continue to be second-class citizens in the eyes of Washington.
At the very least, the federal government should allow Gay spouses file joint tax returns and to designate one another for survivorship benefits under Social Security. If a "civil union" would allow us to do this, I'm all for it. If not, then nothing but full marriage equality will suffice.
Posted by: Chuck Anziulewicz | February 21, 2008 8:43 AM
Marriage in America brings millions to our economy. Gay marriage would bring that figure into the billions. Marriage is a basic civil right that should be attainable by all Americans. For the truth about gay marriage check out our trailer. Produced to educate & defuse the controversy it has a way of opening closed minds & provides some sanity on the issue: www.OUTTAKEonline.com
Posted by: Charlotte | February 21, 2008 10:51 AM
To say that homosexuals do not procreate is a fallacy. There are many gay men who utilize the services of egg donors and surrogates as well as their or their partner's sperm to have children. There are also many lesbian couples who have children by utilizing the services of friends, brothers, or anonymous sperm donors to have children. For an example, read the article "Daddy's Little Helper" in the February edition of W magazine.
Posted by: Carl | February 21, 2008 4:38 PM